waltertore
1560 posts
Oct 17, 2011
6:11 AM
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I have been wrestling with this since I first started recording the harp and vocals through the same mic. The vocals and harp are in great contrasts with mixing them each right. That is why you see so many people using 2 mics even when playig off the mic.
After 33 years I think I am on to about as good a solution as possible. When the harp is in a rack it is clamped right to metal. When holding a harp in your hands, without cupping, your hands add a great deal of deading to the highs. So, in the rack it is metal on metal, and the brightness is front and center.
What I did was rig up a harp rack, the $6 cheapos I use, with some studio foam I had laying around. I don't have a camera anymore so can't post pictures but will try and describe what I did. I secured foam to the bottom plate that holds the harp in and then took the bottom plate off another harp rack and secured foam to that and attached it to the upper part of the harp rack. So now I have a foam sandwich that holds the harp. I took care to not cover up the backside of the harp. I am going to look into more dense foam, rubber, gels, to see if I can get even more deading. I ordered 4 racks for $6 each from rockin rons to experiment with. More to follow.
Hey old wailer where are you? I bet you could invent something really cool for this! Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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oldwailer
1750 posts
Oct 17, 2011
12:15 PM
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I'm still here, Walter--
The harp holder I'm using now is my lightweight model. I experimented with a few crystal elements and such--but they were all too noisy. The one I'm using now has an SM57 cartridge in it--it's pretty good, but I have to be very careful about breathing on it--I have been working on just turning my head a little when I sing or get a breath--that's working pretty well. The cartridge is heavily shielded, so I have to turn the volume up to get what I want--but that's not a problem for me.
The actual holder I use to hold my rig is still a Sennhouser--but any kind could be used since I have made the tilt of the harp an adjustable factor on my latest prototype.
In my holder, the harp is being clamped with PVC plastic that is also covered with a fairly dense foam--this clamping is a couple of inches removed from the metal holder. I had never thought of this as being a factor in the sound of the harp before, but it does make sense--I have noticed before that I like the sound of the harp better in my rig than just clamped in the metal--just never realized why.
I especially like my rig for street playing--I can sing right through the harp and get amplified. Like all solutions to racking that I have explored--it ain't perfect--but it's still the best I have been able to come up with.
In my opinion, a real rack substitute for playing the harp cupped in the hands just isn't fully possible--but I will continue to try because I love playing harp and guitar at the same time. I can have jam sessions right in my own woodshed any time I want to and I don't have the problem of "the bass player got too loaded last night and he's too sick to make it."
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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waltertore
1561 posts
Oct 17, 2011
1:22 PM
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oldwailer: I dig your set up! I recently bought one of these mics for $30 on ebay. It is real small, light and doesn't overload easily. I put it inside my beer can cooler.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-D58E-BLACK-Differential-Microphone-/320767280366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaf3844ee
What I am talking about in this post is pure acoustic harp with some foam over the covers to deaden the brightness generated from the metal of the rack and the lack of any kind of dampening from the hands. I got this idea from my recording computer. It has some sort of sound deading heavy and very thin foam on the insides to keep the fan and noises down.
Try holding a harp in your hands and keep them open, no cupping, and listen to how much deadening goes on vs. putting it in a standard harp rack. I recorded some this afternoon with a big river in the rack with the foam sandwich. It is just enough foam to cover the harp covers and still leave room for the lips to move around on it. I will post the a/b later today. I am thinking a modified rack with permanently mounted foam on it. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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sammyharp
139 posts
Oct 17, 2011
1:52 PM
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I've heard Howard Levy uses electrical tape on the inside of his covers to darken up the sound. Maybe you could try it on both sides.
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waltertore
1562 posts
Oct 17, 2011
2:10 PM
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thanks for that sammyharp! He plays with a rack too? I thought about using some of the stuff that is inside my computer. I think it is something like this. http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_sheetblok/sound_isolation_sheetblok.asp
the electric tape sounds like a winner. I can set up a recording set of harps with it. For live gigs I am fine with it being bright. Nobody knows the difference. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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sammyharp
140 posts
Oct 17, 2011
2:35 PM
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He doesn't play with a rack, but he likes his sound really dark!
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waltertore
1565 posts
Oct 18, 2011
8:33 AM
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sammyharp: I am going to try putting some tape on the inside and outside covers today. My foam sandwich on the outside covers tamed the brights a bit but I would like to take more off the shrill. I am also thinking about a thin layer of silicone on the inside covers. Thanks again. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Oct 18, 2011 8:44 AM
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