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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > 3rd hole draw bends -- help!
3rd hole draw bends -- help!
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BlueDoc
62 posts
Sep 08, 2011
12:37 AM
I went back to one of Chris Michalek's instructional YouTube videos tonight, one that deals with his approach to vibrato and also with getting a generally full tone by dropping the jaw. I have watched this video several times over the last couple of years, and I always get something out of it. Tonight I was really impressed by how full his tone was on each of the successive 3rd hole bends, and when I tried to play along, I discovered that I couldn't do it! I've been working a lot the last few months on getting the right intonation on these bends, but I realized that the habits I have formed in order to do this involve tightening up my embouchure, which makes my tone get really thin.

I have better results with my A harp than with my C harp. But it's not easy even with the A. Does anybody have any tips on how to bend the 3D while keeping a full tone?

Thanks,

Mark
harpdude61
1011 posts
Sep 08, 2011
3:33 AM
Never tighten the embouchure to bend notes. Try keeping the jaw dropped and bend with your throat. You will eventually be able to play the 4 notes cleany, up and down, with or without vibrato.

This is very tough for a lot of players to master. Learning the blues scale in 3rd and 5th position is great for learning those 3 hole bends.
BlueDoc
63 posts
Sep 08, 2011
8:50 PM
Thanks, harpdude!
MagicNick
50 posts
Sep 09, 2011
1:15 AM
My 3 draw bends got a lot worse then a lot lot better when I switched from lip pursing to tongue blocking as it forces you to use the throat to bend and not the embouchure.

Don't know if that helps
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WinslowYerxa
56 posts
Sep 09, 2011
2:00 AM
There' a lot of territory between the "embouchure" and the "throat." I put these terms in quotes because people tend to use them without actually defining them. That lack of definition leads to imprecision in thinking.

Bending control comes from using the tongue along a continuum that runs along the roof of the mouth. High notes bend forward along this continuum, while low notes bend along the back of the continuum.

The back part of the roof, the uvula or soft palate, can feel like the "throat" but it isn't really.

Tongue blocked bending uses the tongue in a manner very similar to bending with a pucker.

The obvious difference is that the tip of the tongue is not free to move around, and this requires some adaptation if you first learn bending with a pucker.

But the K-spot activation point for mid-range and low-range bends is essentially the same HOwever, you can't slide it backwards and forward as far, so you have to change the size of the resonant chamber in other ways, mainly by raising and lowering the floor of the chamber by, once more, using your tongue.
harpdude61
1016 posts
Sep 09, 2011
4:58 AM
@ Winslow.....I agree with your description of where tongue positions are for bends, Tb or LP.

I purse to bend, and although my tongue ends up where you describe, all movement is initiated by the throat. I can feel it on blow bends, draw bends, overblows, and overdraws. Looking in the mirror, I can see my throat doing the work. I can feel vibration and control of it... on the walls of my throat.

My tongue and the rest of my mouth are as relaxed as possible.

The inside of my mouth and my tongue do reshape to bend, but the throat movement dictates this.
silpakorn
91 posts
Sep 09, 2011
6:12 AM
Photobucket

Tongue is a lot bigger than we think and probably be the only thing that can move freely to change the shape/size of the chamber inside the mouth.
The Iceman
95 posts
Sep 09, 2011
7:21 AM
Please entertain the notion that it is the tongue that creates the bends - not the throat. It is the tongue that redirects the air - the throat has no input.

Keep the throat gently open in the "Pre Yawn Attitude" to enhance the tone quality and give you as big a resonance chamber as possible.

Many people have "bundled" concepts and musculature while successfully bending, assuming it is all one process. However, further analysis may reveal that you may be doing the right thing with your tongue but adding unnecessary throat, shoulder, neck, jaw movement. If you travel the path of eliminating one at a time all the unnecessary muscle impulses, you may arrive at the wonderful destination that the bends are merely a flexing of the tongue at different spots along its quite large length (and even width, although this does not play as major a factor). The tip of the tongue is disengaged, allowing it to rest along the lower inside of your bottom teeth. Since the tip is not used, it is easy to progress to placing it on the harmonica for TB with the full range of bends still achieved through controlling the rest of the tongue from behind the tip to where it flows down the throat.
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The Iceman
Diggsblues
983 posts
Sep 09, 2011
12:27 PM
For me it's the tongue that does the work when bending.
Some bends I use the slightest movement of the tip
of the tongue. I agree with Winslow and the Iceman.
I would take their advice as they are veteran players.
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harpdude61
1017 posts
Sep 09, 2011
1:26 PM
At about 2:27 in this video, you can see Jason's "Adams Apple" working to shape the resonance chamber ....of course, pulling along the tongue because they connect.

Open big, tuck the tip of your tongue well below the front lower teeth, then say the "kuh" sound while bending and unbending two hole draw with an open throat.

I can feel the muscles working 360 degrees around the opening at the top of my throat, so it can't be all tongue.

Throat bending is also good for growling with control and throat vibrato....also for for humming thru the harp as Jason does in one of these videos.

If you overblow and overdraw with your throat, you have much more control of pitch, tone, and timbre of the note you are playing. This is how you make those squawky, flat overblows blend in just like any other note.

Bending most overbends two 1/2 steps with control is no problem. Throat vibrato is great here as well. You can play double stops with overbends.

Big fat 1 hole OB on a G harp is no sweat if you do it with the throat...same for a 10 hole OD on a high F harp.

I don't claim to be a pro teacher or player, but I have been teaching a couple of students from my home for about three months and no, they are not stage ready, and no they can't play many songs or licks....yet...but they are developiong tone to die for.

If any of you are a beginner and would like to give my teaching methods a shot ...e-mail me on Yahoo as harpdude61 and we will SKYPE sometime...free, of course.

OK...someone go ahead and say ..."here is another advanced intermediate that thinks he knows enough to teach". I can teach beginners. I was there more recently than some of you were.

Remember too...some of the best coaches in most any sport were only mediocre players.

hvyj
1767 posts
Sep 09, 2011
8:44 PM
@harpdude61: Wow. The technique you describe definitely fattens tone and increases control. At least it does for me.
harpdude61
1018 posts
Sep 10, 2011
1:33 AM
Thanks hvyj! Always great when you add something to a thread. You know that you have turned me into a 5th position addict. Love playing it!


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