BlueDoc
57 posts
Aug 21, 2011
4:47 PM
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I'm trying to gap a GM in the key G. I'm basically following the advice given by Joe Spiers in the Youtube gapping videos he posted here some time back.
Every reed has set up just fine for regular notes, smooth bends and overbends--except the 7 draw. When I hold my finger over it, I get a beautiful G# (7OD), but no matter how low I set the gap of the 7 draw, I can't get that note to sound just by playing an overdraw. Am I doing something wrong?
For what it's worth, the 7 draw reed looks a teeny bit too short for its reed slot, compared with the other reeds. Could that be the problem--no matter how low I gap, maybe the air sneaks around the end of reed when I overdraw, preventing it from closing and letting the blow reed sound?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Mark
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arzajac
610 posts
Aug 21, 2011
4:53 PM
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I think that you can't expect to get overbends just by gapping. If you do, you are lucky - it happens often, but don't count on it.
You may need to adjust the reed profile (try straightening the reed) and you may try embossing.
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chromaticblues
973 posts
Aug 22, 2011
5:51 AM
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@BlueDoc You may be right about the gap at the end. That will do it. If you watch Jim's video on full lenght embossing. How he embosses the slot at the rivet end. Try doing that at the other end and as arzajac said make sure both the draw and blow reed are straight and make sure there aren't any issues with the blow reed and/or slot.
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HarpNinja
1598 posts
Aug 22, 2011
6:20 AM
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Are you able to get the 8-10? How competent of an overdrawer are you? Make sure the 7 blow is tightly gapped. It can probably be no more than the width of the tip in gap.
For the draw reed, gap it to the point where you choke the reed when articulating a note. It should OD just fine. Then lightly increase the gap and keep checking it until you reach a good balance.
You can emboss the tip of the reed slot with something smooth and maybe rounded...a penny, reed punch, paper clip unbent are just a few examples of possible tools.
The 7od can be tricky to set up, even with good playing technique, but a G harp is usually a good template for doing such. For me personally, the 7 draw has to play as well as any other note as I use it all the time. You'll easily tell if you've gapped anything too tight when jamming. FWIW, I find it really hard to choke the 7 BLOW. The 7 draw is often gapped wider than say 9 or 10, but usually at least as tight as the 6 draw.
This is assuming you've done nothing other than gap and make sure the reeds are straight and the whole reed enters the slot at the same time (you can check this by gently pushing the reed into the slot and checking the side view...use a toothpick or something similar).
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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BlueDoc
58 posts
Aug 22, 2011
9:18 PM
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Thank you all for your advice.
@HarpNinja: I'm not a master overdrawer, but I can get 9 and 10 OD on this harp (I don't usually use the 8 OD and so didn't gap the 8 hole for it yet), and 8-10 on other harps, including (until recently) another G harp that I lost last month while on vacation. :(
Losing that harp is the reason why I bought this one and am now trying to gap it.
I will try embossing the tip of the slot. I bought a Sjoeberg UST tool from you last spring, now's a chance to try it out.
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HarpNinja
1604 posts
Aug 22, 2011
9:29 PM
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The UST will be perfect for this!
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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BlueDoc
60 posts
Aug 22, 2011
10:54 PM
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Embossing worked! I had to do the tip and the sides, and for awhile I thought I had mangled the reed somehow in the process--it sounded weak and out of tune. But I plinked it a bit and it came back to life.
Thank you all again, very much!
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arzajac
611 posts
Aug 23, 2011
4:29 AM
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BlueDoc: Great!
HarpNinja: "the reeds are straight and the whole reed enters the slot at the same time (you can check this by gently pushing the reed into the slot and checking the side view...use a toothpick or something similar)."
Often if the reed is completely straight at rest, it doesn't go through the slot all at once. It needs a little curve at rest to be perfectly straight as it meets the slot.
So if you had to choose between straight at rest or when going through the slot, which has precedence?
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chromaticblues
975 posts
Aug 23, 2011
10:49 AM
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@arzajac straight at rest. You want the tip to go thru last. Remember when you are pushing it with your thumb that is not how the reed goes thru the whole. The tip of the reed takes most of the pressure. So if you set the the reed dead straight. If the gap is low you'll have to gap it at the rivet end. This can be tricky and I have ruined harps in the past untill I figured an easy way. Take .005 feeler gauge and slide it under the reed toward the rivet untill it bends it up slightly. All this can very depending on how you play also.
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HarpNinja
1608 posts
Aug 23, 2011
10:54 AM
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I wouldn't do it how @chromaticblues shared, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. The ideal is that the reed will enter the slot at the same time the length of the reed. So when viewing how the reed sits, there will be a gap near the tip of the reed. Obviously the whole reed won't work if there isn't.
Richard Sleigh details this very well in his book.
Think of "flat" as meaning the reed, even if not totally parallel to the reed slot, is flat. When close, the reed should be flat too.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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arzajac
613 posts
Aug 23, 2011
5:06 PM
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Thanks Mike. Yes, I have Richard Sleigh's book and I have been getting very good results doing just that. It's just that a few threads in the past few weeks mentioned setting the reeds straight and the way they were worded implied straight at rest.
When a reed is straight at rest, more often than not, the reed tip enters the slot first which gives the worst outcome.
ChromaticBlues:
"Remember when you are pushing it with your thumb that is not how the reed goes thru the whole"
I emailed Richard Sleigh (he answers questions if you buy the book...) and asked where exactly one is supposed to push when assessing a reed. "Somewhere in the middle" was a bit vague. He said it varies, but it tends to be further back for longer reeds and further forward for shorter reeds - but still in the middle third of the reed.
To anyone curious about this mystical book, it's entitled "Straighten up and tune right" and it's a guide to what will give most people the most bang for their buck in terms of making a harmonica play better with the least amount of time and effort. Richard Sleigh is a world-Class customiser.
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chromaticblues
977 posts
Aug 24, 2011
5:00 AM
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@arzajac When you set the reed straight that has the worst outcome? Wow your starting to sound like MIke Fuguzzi! Thanks for clarifying that for me. I guess I should Email Richard Sliegh too!
WOW! The bullshit is getting to deep for me!
OUT!
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