chromaticblues
968 posts
Aug 20, 2011
5:32 AM
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Well my personel search for the best harp is over. I'm kind of relieved. Now I can just get back to playing the harp.
I played SP 20's for a long time and when Hohner changed the design of there harps in 2005 I hated Sp 20's from that point on. So I thought this would be a good time to make the switch to Marine Bands. The first couple years where hell! My playing instantly became worse. Everything was worse! Thats when I started doing some research and began fixing my own MB's. Ofcourse when you go online thats all you hear/read is how embossing makes harps more air tight (and it does). Well there is a time and place for everything. If you want a big ballssy TONE then emossing is not the answer. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT! Now I know! I just had to get real good at it first to find out I don't like it. It wasn't a total waste of time though because what I did learn is once you get the comb so it doesn't leak air and you learn how to set the reeds. Thats all you need to do. I can play all the OB's and OD on 7&9. I can bend the 6 blow up a little with sounding like I'm in a wind tunnel also.
I have just recently stopped taking my harps apart. First I test it. if it sounds fine and I can't hear air then good enough )I still soak them in mineral oil which makes play even better).
The moral of my long story is; Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Learn to set reeds on your own harps and practice! Enjoy playing the harp and don't stress over it. Its suppose to be fun!
Set the reeds so they are straight and centered in the slot is the only thing anyone needs to know how to do if Blues is your thing and you like the fat type tone.
Now if you want to play more like a lead guitar and your willing to give up some tone for playability. Then carefully embossed harps will open doors you can't imagine!
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harpdude61
967 posts
Aug 20, 2011
8:03 AM
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Soaking in mineral oil? The whole harp? How long? What does it do?
The "Perfect Harp" would hopefully give you the best of both worlds. I hear some top overblowers play both styles and they have a pretty ballsy tone.
I agree that trying to copy SRV and Hendrix licks requires a different set-up than playing Little Walter or Kim Wilson.
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WinslowYerxa
42 posts
Aug 20, 2011
8:26 AM
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The changes to the MB and the SP20 are the same changes - different reed mensurs in the top octave and - though Hohner won't admit it - reed material that responds differently to tweaking.
So I'm wondering why you find the MB good and hate the previously-liked SP20.
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chromaticblues
969 posts
Aug 20, 2011
12:35 PM
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@harpdude As far as OBers with ballsy tone goes. I can play OB's and can build very good OB harps. So I know the difference. I have both and have done extensive long term playing with both types of harps. It doesn't matter who embosses or what they use to do it with. Its the fact that the reeds are so close to the reedplate. It changes the tone! If you think there are people with custom harps that have great tone. Well I'm glad you enjoy there music. This isn't about arguing that. I'm saying anyone you can name that uses custom harps I can give them a harp that sounds better! It won't be as easy to play, but will have a more rounded type tone.
@ Winslow Yes I know that now, but at the time I didn't and just became so frustrated with SP 20's I decided to switch to Marine Bands because I always like the tone of them better, but found the SP 20's easier to play. It wasn't untill about 2008 I found out about the change. At that time I was so deep into working on Marine Bands It was to late!
I don't mind the new Marine Bands in the lower keys like G Ab A and Bb(and actually Bb is pushing it). I have many Marine Bands from the 30's to the present and there are differences. I don't buy used harps anymore because that can skew your comparitive analysis. The one era of harps I don't have are SP 20's or Marine Bands from 1995-2005. I have a life time supply of Marine Bands made between the late 30's through the sixties.
Yeah I'll test a harp and if it's fine I'll put it in front of a dehumidifier for a day or two. Then put the whole thing in mineral oil. You don't have to put the whole thing in. You can take off the covers first, but I have found I like the film of mineral oil on the covers. After soaking it I take the covers off and wipe the covers off as well as I can (I do not rinse them or wash them). You can wipe as much as you want and you'll never get rid of the film of oil. I find it makes it easier to play fast. I have always had problems with my top lip sticking and this seems to help with that.
There is now such thing as the perfect harp. Everyone has to decide what is type of music and style in which they want to play it. Then pick what harp makes you happy.
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orphan
40 posts
Aug 20, 2011
1:22 PM
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@ chromaticblues
I appreciate you sharing "The moral of my long story". I agree with your conclusion completely. It dovetails what Cristal Lecter has said about everyone having a different morphology. As each of you have gone on the journey for the best harp, not only have you found your "best harp" but also found two things I need to always remember:
"Its suppose to be fun!" & "Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!"
The more I experiment the more I learn. I haven't found my "Best Harp" yet. I have found that by playing/practicing more I am getting closer,(looong way to go), to that TONE.
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arzajac
609 posts
Aug 20, 2011
7:14 PM
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Chromaticblues: My experience is a little different. I seem to be learning a little every day. I play harp every day and seem to find new sounds and get better and better tone every day.
I also work on harps just about every day. Again, I seem to find out things and try things every day. Things that didn't work one day may work another. I discover that "luck" can be an opportunity and something I did out of luck one day can be repeated the next - luck turns into experience.
Anyway, embossing is just embossing. After getting the hang of it, I figured out that I can emboss a lot or just a little.
Embossing brightens the tone. Where I disagree with you is that a bright harp is not balsy or fat. A harp can have a fat balsy tone and still be bright. If embossed too much, the tone turns metallic but it's not all-or-nothing.
It may be a question of taste, too. I think tuning and playing style influence "balsieness" more than reed profiles, gaps or embossing.
I'm glad you found what works for you and that may very well work for a lot of others. I just felt that I should point out that embossing does not take out any blues mojo from a harp in of itself. At least that's what I think.
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harpdude61
969 posts
Aug 21, 2011
5:17 AM
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chromatic...I didn't say they switched harps.
I know Ricci uses customs...his overbends and the way he uses them in blues is second to none.....I know it is personal taste, but his tone is killer as well and he doesn't switch harps to get one or the other.
Interesting how you soak the harps that way. Would I gain anything from soaking a stock GM? I too prefer a slick harp.
Last Edited by on Aug 21, 2011 5:18 AM
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chromaticblues
971 posts
Aug 21, 2011
12:07 PM
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@arzajac As far as the embossing goes. Yeah you are right. The more you close down the slot the more metalic sounding it becomes. I was doing it almost as much as possible to bend OB's and OD's. To have control of that stuff the harp has to be very tricked out. OK so with that in mind for me it is all or nothing. Like you said messing around with them and playing the harps you build everyday. You gain experience that just can't be tought. I know I hear things that most other people don't because of the many harps I've built. Not all of them were positive outcomes, but it is experience. I encourage you to go through all that stuff and don't take my word for it. If you agree to everything I say you won't learn anything for your self! So by all means emboss away!
At harpdude I disagree about Jason Ricci. I've seen him and I thought his sound was so saturated by affects how could you tell. He played one song thru a vocal mic and did not have anything even close to what I would consider a fat tone. He is a great harp player, but he is doing just as I stated in my firt post. He is trying to play the harp in a different way which requires heavy modification. I don't care who it is. It changes the way the harp sounds! I personally don't like the sound. I know many people love there $250 harps and can't live without them. Thats fine for them. What ever works for you is your perfect harp!
Someone that wants to play like a lead guitar in a Rock band with multiple effects would benifit greatly from a harp of that nature. Someone that likes to draw notes out would not. I like to do both, but can't deal with the tone of embossed harps any longer!
Last Edited by on Aug 22, 2011 4:22 AM
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HarpNinja
1597 posts
Aug 21, 2011
9:55 PM
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Please don't make me embed a ton of Jason Ricci YouTubes! He has huge acoustic tone at the least. Also, I think it is of note that he played fairly stock GM's for many years and only got into customs because he could afford them and his playing had evolved.
If you check out Feel Good Funk or anything prior, you'll here him playing a technical style with harps just gapped and maybe embossed.
I play in a rock band with multiple effects and most my harps are just gapped. However, I can gap and profile really really well, so getting a C harp to overdraw and play fast just by profiling/gapping isn't hard. Granted, I can make them play differently, but I'd rather get paid to work on someone else's than work on my own.
I play really fast and use the whole harp all the time. You can get rockstar performance without embossing.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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chromaticblues
972 posts
Aug 22, 2011
4:59 AM
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@Mr. Ninja No I'm not interested in you posting any youtube videos. I was going by a live performance that I saw him play with all custom harps. Further more I Never said he didn't have good tone. I said I didn't like the way his harps sounded for the one song he played thru the vocal mic and the rest of the night the sound qaulity was mushy or lacking of clearity. Its hard to describe, but I'm pretty sure its due to haveing the singnal going thru so many effects. It reminded me of recording and having the sound compressed to much. As good as he is I would enjoy it more with just a mic and an amp, but thats just me.
I also think he is a great player and think he would be a GREAT addition to a main stream Rock band.
As far as the second half of your post. Ah OK
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