WestVirginiaTom
34 posts
Aug 11, 2011
11:44 AM
|
Sorry if my newbie questions are getting old, but here are more queries. I have no experience with amplifiers, so I’m gathering as much info as I can before I dive into that world. Many of the units I’m looking at (such as the Roland Cube Street) have a mic/XLR input and one or more separate 1/4" instrument inputs. They also have effects and amp emulators that can be applied to the instrument inputs, but as far as I can tell, they have no effect on the clean mic input.
So, am I correct in thinking that if I want to sing and/or play clean acoustic harp, I should connect my mic cable directly (without a transformer) to the mic/XLR input. But if I want to play dirty, I will need to connect an impedance transformer to the mic cable and insert it in the 1/4" instrument input. Is that right?
Also, any thoughts on the Roland Cubes would also be appreciated. Thanks.
Tom
|
LSC
62 posts
Aug 11, 2011
12:07 PM
|
You are right about the vocal/clean channel i.e. straight in. A high impedance mic can go straight into the instrument input but you are unlikely to get much dirt out of a Roland Cube. They are designed to be a clean amp, which they are quite good at if that is what you are looking for. If you want to run vocals/clean through one channel and a dirty sound through the other I suggest something like a Lone Wolf Harp Attack.
----------
LSC
|
hvyj
1658 posts
Aug 11, 2011
12:21 PM
|
You are not going to get much "dirt" from an amp that has an XLR input and a 1/4" input, no matter which input you use. But, you will get better tone for harp using an IMT and the 1/4" input than you will using the XLR input.
|
lumpy wafflesquirt
400 posts
Aug 11, 2011
1:00 PM
|
My street cube should arrive tomorrow :^)
I hope to plug the Lumpophone mic [600ohm] straight into the instrument input or possibly vie my echo pedal
I might buy a second mic for the vocal channel.
Use of an IMT will depend on the impedance of the mic and whether you are putting it to the high or low impedance input [I can never remember which is which [low/high, jack/XLR].
As I understand it you can put a mic into the 'effects' side as well.
----------
"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
|
WestVirginiaTom
35 posts
Aug 11, 2011
2:29 PM
|
@LSC and hvyj:
Thanks guys! Yes, my main focus is on singing and playing harp clean via a Shure SM58 mic on a mic stand. So the mic input on the Cube will do the trick.
But if I want to dive into the dirt, I can use the SM58 cupped with an IMT and plug it into a Lone Wolf Harp Attack (or similar pedal) and plug that device into the 1/4" input. Right? When the pedal is in bypass mode, will I be able to sing thru the SM58, or will the pedal and IMT mess up the vocals?
Thanks again!
@lumpyWS:
Let me know how you like the Cube!
|
MrVerylongusername
1834 posts
Aug 11, 2011
3:16 PM
|
You'll get bags of crunch if you use the amp simulations. Whether they'll sound authentic is probably for your ears to decide, but remember Roland (owners of the Boss brand) are the market leader in guitar effects - they know what they're doing.
If it sounds good - maybe invest in a second mic rather than the Lone wolf pedal? Then you can have clean and dirt simultaneously without playing 'Riverdance' on your footswitches. Just another suggestion.
Last Edited by on Aug 11, 2011 3:38 PM
|
Cristal Lecter
91 posts
Aug 11, 2011
4:15 PM
|
you'll have ALL the answer for ALL your question in the marvellous PDF file that Greg Heumann as done : this is the link to download it:
http://blowsmeaway.com/all%20about%20harmonica%20microphones.pdf
----------
Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
|
WestVirginiaTom
36 posts
Aug 11, 2011
4:45 PM
|
Thanks Christelle! And Greg! That PDF is full of great info!
I think for now, I'll just continue to work on my acoustic chops. I'll revisit the amplified harp world in a year or two after I'm comfortable using a mic on a stand.
|
hvyj
1659 posts
Aug 11, 2011
5:08 PM
|
If the pedal is true bypass, when you disengage it, it's like it's not there. I think it would be more awkward to use two mics than to use a pedal. Using a pedal (or a pedal board) is not awkward or difficult.
Now, personally, I don't set up for much dirt. If you are using a mic with proximity effect (like a Shure 57, 58 or 545) you can set up relatively clean and still get a certain amount of texture/dirt when you want it by using a real tight cup and keeping the harp close enough to the mic element so that you overdrive it. One can do a lot with mic handling technique.
BUT although you can use technique to go from clean to dirtier, you can't use technique to get a clean sound if you are set up for a dirty sound. if you set up for dirt, you are stuck with dirt, unless you are using a true bypass pedal to generate the dirt. Personally, I'm not a fan of distortion pedals, but a lot of other players seem to like them.
|
MrVerylongusername
1835 posts
Aug 11, 2011
5:56 PM
|
I can't see how singing into a mic and then switching a pedal on so you can play a phrase and then switching it off so you can sing again and then switching it off so you can play a phrase and then... etc...etc... is simpler than just having a mic for vocals and a mic for harp.
|
jbone
606 posts
Aug 12, 2011
5:32 AM
|
just one thought based on my own experiences with low-z mics, p.a.'s, and ss amps: i like an sm57 better for the dual duty thing, harp and vocals. being unidirectional it will not pick up as much ambient sound. it's easier to cup and will bark pretty well if you want it to, yet it also provides a nice clean signal for vocals. i don't mess with pedals on a vocal mic or really any mic. if the p.a. channel or amp can be set to bring out some wetness, that's usually good enough for a dual duty thing imho.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
|
hvyj
1660 posts
Aug 12, 2011
9:18 AM
|
I guess using 2 mics isn't awkward if one of them is on a stand. But carrying around a mic stand is more awkward than carrying around a pedal.
|
lumpy wafflesquirt
402 posts
Aug 12, 2011
1:39 PM
|
The street cube arrived today. I had a quick play, but only quietly. I need to get down to a proper session to put it through it's paces at a bit of volume so the sound can ring out properly.
I think I need a proper lowZ mic with an xlr plug for the 'mic' side which does have delay OR reverb available.
----------
"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
|
Greg Heumann
1211 posts
Aug 13, 2011
5:10 AM
|
You do not need a low z mic just to plug into a low-z input. Nor does low-Z vs high-Z imply much about the tonal qualities of the mic. (Low impedance is a newer technology and as a rule, it happens that most low impedance mics are cleaner- but only because they're more modern designs, not because of the impedance. All you need to hook a high impedance mic to a low impedance input is a proper low impedance cable - XLR at both ends -- and an impedance matching transformer between the cable and the amp.
----------
/Greg
|
BlueDoc
54 posts
Aug 13, 2011
7:59 AM
|
Greg, if you plug a dirty low-impedance mic directly into a PA, do you tend to get a dirty sound or does that usually come from amps that create more distortion than modern PAs?
(I just posted a new thread on dual impedance mics in order to ask this question, but then I saw your post here.)
|
lumpy wafflesquirt
403 posts
Aug 13, 2011
8:10 AM
|
I was more thinking that I only have a VERY cheap lowZ mic which came with a jack plug on it. I'm sure if I stuck a XLR plug on it the amp would perform better as the mic would match the input.
I will also try the lumpophone (600ohm) mic with a jack plug via my echo pedal which might help to match to the input of the amp.
I realise that HI or LO doesn't matter but it should match to the input of the amp.
----------
"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
|
lumpy wafflesquirt
405 posts
Aug 13, 2011
1:38 PM
|
I've spent the evening with the street cube in the shed and it would appear that it does all I want it to.
Not particularly dirty, but that isn't what I want. I ended up putting backing tracks from my PDA in the 'aux' input and playing the CX12 tenor through the lumpohone 600 ohm mic in the instrument channel on the 'classic stack' setting with the gain right down and with a bit of reverb and chorus. For me it is what I want for gershwin, hoagy carmichael etc.
A warm 'fat' sound which I reckon would fill a good sized room if I turned it up.
----------
"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
|
Greg Heumann
1213 posts
Aug 14, 2011
8:32 AM
|
@BlueDoc - most PA's these days are solid state - sending them a dirty signal usually results in a less-than-pleasing kind of distortion. I say usually because every combination is unique. Just try it! You can't hurt anything by trying it. But as a rule, most of the "dirty" sound we crave comes from a tube amplifier. They often need a dirty signal to get there (smaller amps less so, larger amps more so.)
@Lumpy - are you SURE your mic is low impedance? I don't know why anyone would sell a low impedance mic with a jack plug when the worldwide industry standard for low impedance mics is XLR. If the jack plug is not the stereo type, then the mic is wired unbalanced as well, which is another clue it is likely to be high impedance. However if it was made specifically for some sort of cheap karaoke system it is conceivable a mfg might have done this to save a few pennies. But again - in the end only one thing matters and that is how YOU like the way it sounds.
@all - You cannot hurt any kind of microphone simply by connecting it to your amp or pa's input - no matter whether it is wired right or wrong, high or low impedance. So go ahead and try. But at some point you should understand the differences - in particular the TWO ways HIGH impedance XLR gets wired, NEITHER of which is the same as the way low impedance stuff gets wired. There are indeed cases where you can find a cable that will physically connect one thing to another - and it may even work - but not be working properly (technically that is - if it sounds good to you, go ahead and use it.)
----------
/Greg
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2011 8:34 AM
|
lumpy wafflesquirt
406 posts
Aug 14, 2011
1:54 PM
|
@Greg
It says its 600ohms, "ideal for karaoke". It only cost me 99p. =80
Not exactly high spec, top of the range model.
It doesn't take much of a turn on the volume knob to make it too loud. I think I might get an xlr plug for it and see what happens, the irony is that the plug will cost more than the mic did :^(
I did realise this when I bought it.
----------
"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
|
