Tommy the Hat
157 posts
Jul 29, 2011
10:54 AM
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Rockin' Rons does it again. I ordered late Tuesday afternoon from Rons who is in California and my harps arrived Thursday afternoon clear across to the east coast. I completed my set of keys in SP20's accept for "E" which I already have an old Marine Band.
Anyway, I also purchased a Marine Band in key of C. The last Marine Bands I bought/played were back around 20 years ago when I attempted to learn harp back then. Now that I have been playing SP 20's this Marine band is a little different. It plays well and easy enough although the smaller holes make it a bit easier (for me) to miss on holes 2 & 3. But one thing I noticed is that this sonofabitch is sharp!! Wow!
The reedplate gets my lips and the covers are sharp at the rear corners. I don't remember that from years ago...maybe I'm used to the SP 20's. It feels a little thinner in my hands also. Thinner or lighter...not sure...as if the metal was thinner (?)
One thing I noticed that isn't on my old ones is that the front of the comb (the front of the tines at the holes) seems lacquered. It plays nice though. I'm telling you, there is nothing like the look of a marine band and a wooden comb (IMO). The shinyness of the lacquer adds to the look also. Getting used to it on a comfort level will take a little time. It's like playing a knife...lol.
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2011 3:51 PM
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Greyowlphotoart
710 posts
Jul 29, 2011
11:06 AM
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That's great Tommy. They do sound really good, but I agree they're not built for comfort. They feel good in the hand though, nice and compact and light. The sound is the winner though, just loved that tone straight away.
Just a pity that the reed plates and covers are made by Gillette!! I bought the MB 1896 Fusion - 'The best a man can get'
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Grey Owl YouTube
Grey Owl Abstract Photos
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Tommy the Hat
158 posts
Jul 29, 2011
11:12 AM
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Something interesting I never noticed is that there are side holes on the cover plates. This means different hand maneuvering/cupping depending on what sound one might be trying to get right? My standard way of holding would leave one side (my right hand) exposed and the other hole partially covered by my left hand. That's a lot of air escape.
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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Blues13
133 posts
Jul 29, 2011
11:53 AM
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Rockin' Ron is the best. In the short time I've been playing, less than 2 years, I tried 5 different models for 3 different brand.
-Suzuki Bluesmaster and Manji
-Seydel Solist Pro
-Hohner Big River and Marine Band.
My favorite is the Marine Band. I can see myself only playing them. The Suzukis play great but I don't like the tuning, the Seydel is great but mine lasted less than 2 months. The Big River is really good with a little work.
Martin
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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov
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hvyj
1624 posts
Jul 29, 2011
12:03 PM
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You know, I placed an on line order with Rockin' Ron on Saturday. The harp arrived on MONDAY. Unbelievable delivery speed.
I placed another on line order on Tuesday. Delivery was Thursday. Pretty impressive.
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Tommy the Hat
159 posts
Jul 29, 2011
12:45 PM
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I swear he must get an order and take it himself right to the post office! Most people you deal with online, when they say "shipped" all they mean is that they printed up a shipping label and prepared the package. it could sit in there warehouse for 2 days after that. When Ron says shipped he means shipped!
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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Blues13
134 posts
Jul 29, 2011
1:03 PM
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I'm in Montreal Cananda and I get my harps in 7 days. Does he still call the first time you order. The first time I ordered I had just finished paying and was telling my wife that he usualy calls first time buyers. My wife was saying that she taught that it was bullshit and then the phone rings she looked at the number says long distance call, takes the call says it's for you a guy speaking english. It was Ron calling me from California to answer some question that I had . That is customer service.
Martin
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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2011 1:04 PM
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BronzeWailer
191 posts
Jul 29, 2011
3:06 PM
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I got some 5 SP20s from Ron's too. First order from him. Took a bit longer to reach Oz (3 weeks) but I ordered just before the 4th of July weekend. Ron was emailing me about (my) credit card issues 'cause he wanted to pop it in the post as soon as he could.
Love the springiness of the new harps! I am going to order some replacement reed plates too as I will inevitably blow out some reeds as I suck too hard, and I also suck at fixing things. Trying to train myself in tuning and not using too much breath force
but...
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RT123
179 posts
Jul 29, 2011
3:21 PM
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Tommy. I can see why you like the classic marine band. Razor sharp edges, no screws, worst tolerances, porous comb, and tuned so you can't play melodies. Seriously people, what am I missing here?
Oh yeah, Ron is the best. That I will agree with!
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Big Daddy Ray
52 posts
Jul 29, 2011
4:19 PM
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Where do you guys live that you have to have standard harps shipped to you? It must be strange to not have a music store near by :/
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BronzeWailer
192 posts
Jul 29, 2011
5:15 PM
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@Ray. RRP for a SP20 is A$55. That is about US$60 thanks to the debt ceiling shenannigans, Chinese demand for our resources, and an economy where interest rates are likely to be going up (sic).
The local shops might knock them down to A$45 if you ask nicely, but won't budge much more than that.
Anywho, I can by them from RR for US$ 30 plus $15 shipping, so I just got 5 for A$150 shipped, instead of giving my friendly local shops A$200.
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groyster1
1225 posts
Jul 29, 2011
10:59 PM
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its clear that rockinron has become a legend in his own time for harp sales-actually I have never dealt with the purchase of any product at all that has the customer service he gives-if he is getting wealthy off his enterprise then it is well deserved
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Littoral
323 posts
Jul 30, 2011
5:57 AM
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RT123: "Tommy. I can see why you like the classic marine band. Razor sharp edges, no screws, worst tolerances, porous comb, and tuned so you can't play melodies. Seriously people, what am I missing here?"
Muddy, Big Walter, LW, maybe?
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Andrew
1399 posts
Jul 30, 2011
7:49 AM
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"tuned so you can't play melodies."
Lol! There speaks someone who reads too much and plays too little!
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Andrew.
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Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
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Tommy the Hat
164 posts
Jul 30, 2011
10:05 AM
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Reading back over my post I can't find where I said "I like classic Marine Bands." I did say I like the classic look of a wooden comb. I'm new to this and have only 7 keys. 5 SP 20's 1 Delta frost an an old Marine band I had laying around since 1990.
As far as HD TV's go...lol. I'm an old school dude. Some call me a dinosaur. I hate all these newfangled Cell phones iphones or whatever. I prefer a flip phone just for making calls. Can't stand text or apps or any of that crap. I take stairs instead of elevators or escalators and if I had my way we'd be going back to having to get off the couch and walk to the TV to turn a knob and change the channel. I could care less if a picture is in HD or whatever....I really don't see the difference until someone points it out. I like things the hrad way....I like to work for what I get, it makes me feel real ownership of it. If something is hard to learn and they come out with a newer version that makes it easier, most times I stick with the old hard way.....like I said...makes me feel like "I own it."
I just saw a commercial for an ipad or notebook or whatever where you can be in school and not have to write or type to take notes. The friggin' thing does it all for you. I wanted to put a bullet in my head!!! lol!
As a new player I would say I like my SP 20's The Marine band seems harder. That makes me want to keep it and "beat it." I will play it!! Some of the best music was made on them so it can be done. You should workout with me sometime...people hate me. Like I said....a dinosaur....lol
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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RT123
182 posts
Jul 30, 2011
10:50 AM
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Tommy. No offense meant. I must have misunderstood your message and thought you gave up special 20s for the marine band classic. But you really need to get a HD TV. They are amazing! Lol
Andrew. I may be guilty of reading too much but not guilt of not playing enough. You must know the difference between equal, just, and compromise tuning. I mean I could play wipe out on my wifes ass with a spatula and salami but it won't sound as good as on a good drum set. Name me 1 thing better about marine band classics than another other. Special 20, crossover, big river, Bluesmaster, harpmaster, manji, seydel steel, etc.... You can't!
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2011 11:11 AM
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groyster1
1228 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:02 AM
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@RT123
I will name 1 thing-just intonation tuned-I want all my harps tuned that way
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RT123
183 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:07 AM
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Special 20 is. Try again.
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groyster1
1229 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:14 AM
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I use sp20s they are my favorite harp for the money but they are not JI tuned-they are compromised tuned leaning more toward JI tuned-dont take my word for it-ask the knowledgeable people in this forum-the old mb1896s were pure JI tuned
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RT123
184 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:18 AM
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Got my information from hohner. The only compromise tuning they list is the crossover. The GM is equal. They could be wrong. I will take your word for it. J just don't see the need for them to make that dinosaur any more.
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groyster1
1230 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:30 AM
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@RT123
refer to barbq bobs post re:hohner blue midnight-the first JI tuned hohner harp since 1992 I dont buy mb1896s anymore the sp20s outplay them and are more airtight-I do own one of the new blue midnights which chords as well as any harp I own
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2011 11:46 AM
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RT123
186 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:35 AM
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No worries. I said I will take your word for it. That wasn't sarcasm. Lol. And the reasons you stated for using the special 20 back up my point further.
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Tommy the Hat
166 posts
Jul 30, 2011
12:28 PM
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@RT123
"Tommy. No offense meant."
None taken. :)
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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hvyj
1628 posts
Jul 30, 2011
5:22 PM
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@RT123: I agree with you. I am mystified by the popularity of MBs. Crappy construction and uncomfotable to play. And I don't like all the flat notes in the tuning scheme because the flat notes make it harder to sound in tune with the rest of the band especially when playing in positions above 3rd.
On the other hand, the vented covers on the MB do give the MB a distinctive sound which i don't particularly like, but that many players do find appealing.
I understand that compromise and JI tuning produce smoother sounding chords. But, personally, I think it's more important for me to sound in tune with the band than it is to just sound in tune with myself.
Btw, Sp 20s are NOT JI tuned. They are compromise tuned.
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2011 5:25 PM
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KingoBad
809 posts
Jul 30, 2011
11:29 PM
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I would like to hear Wipeout with the spatula and salami....
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Danny
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Andrew
1400 posts
Jul 31, 2011
2:26 AM
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When I was learning the oboe, I was taught that you intonate uniquely and individually every single note that you play: you don't play the first note in tune and the last note of your phrase and then just wing it in the middle. That fatigues the audience - they can't consciously tell there's a problem, but unconsciously it drains their energies. You practise playing the phrase slowly and bringing every note to the right pitch.
That's why I'm happy playing melodies with JI - I intonate each note individually, I don't just suck and blow and hope what comes out is right. The instrument manufacturer can't do that for you because a lot of the time the pitch is dependent on how loud you are playing - how loud you play affects the airflow, it affects your embouchure and you have to learn to control the note. It's your job, it's not Suzuki's.
Concerning chords in ET, I've been listening to chords on the piano for 45 years, and I feel that harp players who believe that you can't play chords on a GM are just being precious about something that's just theoretical. You're playing with a guitarist who isn't in tune, with a bassist who has never been in tune, with a keyboard even? And you think your GM is a problem?
Just stop bitchin and running your tunings through a computer and play the damn thing.
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Andrew.
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Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2011 2:34 AM
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hvyj
1630 posts
Jul 31, 2011
3:10 AM
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"That's why I'm happy playing melodies with JI - I intonate each note individually, I don't just suck and blow and hope what comes out is right."
One can and should inordinate each note individually. I do. It's relatively easy to flatten a note a little when necessary. But if a note is tuned flat, it can't be intonated upward (made to sound sharper)--at least I can't figure out how to do that.
"I feel that harp players who believe that you can't play chords on a GM are just being precious about something that's just theoretical. You're playing with a guitarist who isn't in tune, with a bassist who has never been in tune, with a keyboard even? And you think your GM is a problem?"
I completely and totally agree with this--especially so when one is playing amplified through a quality mic with other amplified instruments. Whatever slight beating one may get from a GM or other ET harp is hardly audible and certainly does not make the instrument sound out of tune. I find that in an ensemble situation chords played on an ET harp sound just fine, whether the other instruments are well in tune or not.
But although one can certainly play melodies on a JI or compromise tuned harp, the flat tuned notes do present an intonation problem for me. Properly intonating a note that is a little sharp is no problem. But how does one properly intonate a note on a harp that's tuned flat? If there's a way to do it, I'm certainly open to suggestions.
Harps by their nature often play a little flat anyway because the pitch of the reeds tends to drop or flatten under breath pressure when the instrument is played. This is why most harps are generally tuned to A441, 442, 443 or something like that in order to compensate. I don't have the best or most refined ear, but I am bothered by the deliberately flat tuned notes on compromise tuned harps. I can hear a very audible difference/improvement when playing an ET harp--it's not just a theoretical matter.
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2011 5:55 AM
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