LIP RIPPER
458 posts
Jul 21, 2011
6:35 AM
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I have more than one of both models. Just this morning I'm grabbing the crossover, playing something fast, then right after that grab a Manji in the same key and played the same thing. I have been doing this for a long time and cannot decide which model to by next. The size, the ergonomics and the tight reed tolerances win on the Manji side. After a little embossing on the Crossover it wins on the brassy tone and responsiveness.
LR
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HarpNinja
1517 posts
Jul 21, 2011
6:57 AM
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I've tried both, and for me, the Crossover wins every time. It is easier to set up, has consistent results, and can overbend fairly well.
Something I've always had issue with with Suzuki harps is the torsional vibrations on overbends. If overbending isn't a concern, than is comes down to other factors, almost all of which (other than actual components) can easily be altered.
FWIW, I play several stock Crossovers that have been gapped (which would be true of any harp I'd get) and have really really taken a liking to them. On the Manji (is the plural Manji or Manjis...anyways it has been at least 5) I tried, the overblows would squeal unless other modification took place.
As I ramble on, I find it interesting that the Manji would still squeal considering the tighter tolerances - especially on the rivet end.
I notice the same thing with other brands (I can list them, but at this point it would see like I am just trying to be a Hohner fan-boy and it would be introducing another harp option that is off topic). On harps made with other materials than brass, I've also found similar issues, although not as often. Again, I am speaking directly to easy of overbends based on equal amounts of custom work.
I am sure there will be a wealth of Suzuki vs the others now that Jason has made his post, and I am guilty of letting his allegiance cloud my thinking at times, but let's at least acknowledge that filter.
For me, the first pick of non-Hohner harp model would not be a Suzuki. The Manji would be my number two behind another model from another maker using another reed material. Both the Manji and this other model would be much more difficult to "customize" than any handmade Hohner, though.
IMO, for the casual tweaker of harps, the Crossover gives a fantastic template to work off of. If he is reading - Jason, I love you unconditionally if only for simply your contributions to harmonica, but I can't help but doubt that any harp from Suzuki that you play and can overbend like your previous customs is stock. I'll even choose to ignore gapping as a mod.
I will concede that the Manji made for Mr. Levy at last year's SPAH was the best overbending harp I have ever played.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 6:58 AM
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Todd Parrott
569 posts
Jul 21, 2011
9:17 AM
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I also played the Levy Manji at SPAH last year, and while it was impressive, I've played other customs that are much better. That Levy Manji did squeal on the overdraw bends on some notes.
Now, if they were able to produce Manjis that played that well right out of the box, that would be something.
I will say that if Hohner ever went out of business, I would be a Suzuki player. I've always had a lot of respect for Suzuki, their instruments, and their professionalism.
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Icemaster
40 posts
Jul 21, 2011
9:29 AM
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I have two Manjis and three crossovers. The Manjis I've spent too much time gapping and I still can't get one of em right. They just seem so stiff. All my crossovers play like silk. My next harps will all be crossovers so I can have a full set of them. If I had to get another Suzuki it would absolutely be a Hammond. I would take those over anything.
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"A harmonica is not just a souped up kazoo" -Mo Rocca
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groyster1
1193 posts
Jul 21, 2011
10:46 AM
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@ice
I agree about the hammond best ootb harp I have ever played
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Todd Parrott
570 posts
Jul 21, 2011
11:23 AM
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The Hammond really is a great harp, and is arguably one of the most beautiful harps around today. While you can hit overblows and overdraws on the Hammond, if you try and sustain or bend them, they are prone to squeals. If only they would produce them with the correct reed profiles for overblowing/overdrawing. I know you can put Manji reed plates in a Hammond, but why should you have to? What is the advantage of a shorter reed profile like those in the Promaster, Hammond, Lee Oskar, etc.? Does a shorter reed contribute to longer reed life? In today's world where overblows are becoming much more popular, it would seem that the harp companies would want to produce all of their harps to be suitable for overblows. Not sure why they want to hang on to these older, short profiles.
Also, though Suzuki denies it, some have found the stock combs of the Hammond to be flatter than that of the Promaster. Perhaps this, along with better quality control, is what makes the Hammond play so well out of the box, and much better than the Promaster?
Regardless of the reasons, the Hammond remains a great harp. The size of the Hammond, as well as the other Suzuki models, also makes them very comfortable in the hands, unlike the Seydel models which seem to be clones (as far as size is concerned) of the Hohner MS series harps.
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Kingley
1557 posts
Jul 21, 2011
12:20 PM
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I had a Suzuki Hammond once and thought it was one of the worst harps I'd ever played sound wise. It felt nice in the hand but the tone was shockingly bright and sounded shrill to my ears. That was in the key of "A" by the way.
The Hohner Crossover by comparison I find to be a very good out of the box harp for my needs. Although I'd prefer it to be tuned to 7 Limit JI or 19 Limit JI. Overall though the Crossover is probably the best out of the box harp I've ever tried.
I can't comment on the Manji having never played one. From what I have heard played on them though they seem to sound very bright too. I prefer a "browner" sound from my harps. The Marine Band 1896 (Classic) has the tone that I love. I just wish that Hohner would assemble it with screws and seal the comb. I wouldn't like to see any other "tweaks / improvements " done to it by Hohner though.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 12:21 PM
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Todd Parrott
571 posts
Jul 21, 2011
12:31 PM
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Kingley, according to the new Hohner catalog, they have starting sealing the Marine Band combs. Not sure if they are assembling them with screws yet, but I'd heard that was the plan.
Can't beat the sound of Hohners in my opinion.
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Kingley
1558 posts
Jul 21, 2011
12:34 PM
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That's great news Todd. Let's hope they start using screws too :-)
"Can't beat the sound of Hohners in my opinion."
Yeah I agree.
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groyster1
1195 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:24 PM
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I really wish hohner,suzuki,LO and other harp companies would give you a choice in tuning when you purchase---I would take JI tuning everytime I think it has a richer sound
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jimjam
40 posts
Jul 22, 2011
1:52 PM
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@Kingley the Marine Band Deluxe has the same tuning as the 1896 and SP20.. cover plates opened, comb mostly sealed and lots of screws, no nails. I like it much better than the Crossover for rock and blues.
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Kingley
1559 posts
Jul 22, 2011
1:59 PM
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jimjam - Yeah I've had a few Marine Band Deluxe harps in the past. Very nice harps. They just don't seem to have quite the same brown tone as the 1896 though in my experience. I'm not quite sure why that is, but they do sound different to my ear. Of course it could be just me. lol
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Roverharp
14 posts
Jul 23, 2011
5:15 PM
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Can someone confirm or deny that there's *something* about the reeds of the Crossover that makes it so good? Or, is it simply the consistent, flatter comb that makes it play well?
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kudzurunner
2616 posts
Jul 23, 2011
6:10 PM
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I agree with everything Kingley has said in this thread. The Crossover is the first harp that has the capacity to wean me away from a 30-year marriage to the Marine Band. But the Crossover and the Deluxe are somewhat bright compared to the MB: an advantage much of the time, but not always.
As a Hohner endorser, I've lately started getting harps direct from "my guy," you might call him--artist liason at Hohner Central in Virginia--and today I got a new MB and Crossover in Bb. I've probably played a thousand new MB's in my time. Well, maybe 500. I went through a lot in the late 80s busking days. I was crazy. On a scale of 1 to 10, this MB was a 10. Unbelievable. It has HOHNER in white letters on the closed side of the comb, which I don't believe I've seen on a stock MB. I can't help but think that my guy went to the guy in charge of MB's and said, "Give me one for Gussow." Call me a fool, but when you get one this good, butter-smooth, with that sound, it's hard to want much more. The Crossover was as good as expected, but this MB was just as good.
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2011 6:11 PM
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mandowhacker
66 posts
Jul 23, 2011
7:45 PM
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I got a Blues Harp in A from Todd awhile back. It has a sealed comb and "HORNER" on white on the back side.
Todd said he's not a customizer, but knows how to make a harp work a bit better if I wanted him to. Hell ya!!! It's hard to tell it from the full blown customs I have with my beginning skills. Best $30 I EVER spent on a harp.
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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bonedog569
365 posts
Jul 23, 2011
9:50 PM
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@kingley - Hammonds "shockingly bright". Hmmmnn. Are you sure you're not talking about Manjis? Maybe you got a really different run than me - but I find them borderline 'too dark' and way darker than MB's and Manjis - all in all a really nice harp though. The firebreath is similar and nice too.
If you don't OB - the bluesmaster is very nice and a little cheaper. To my ear between the Hammond and the MB in the 'bright/dark' tone balance. I've never tried a deluxe and the crossover I tried briefly at spah didn't impress me all that much.
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Gnarly
71 posts
Jul 23, 2011
10:00 PM
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The Hammond is a nice harp!
It's a ProMaster, says so on the box--but the aluminum comb and cover plates have the same heavy black laquer that they put on the Firebreath covers.
I didn't think it was bright . . .
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