Tommy the Hat
45 posts
Jun 23, 2011
8:59 AM
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Since joining this forum I have read a lot about certain difficulties playing MB's as compared to SP20's etc. This has led to something curious for me. As I've mentioned before I played a little 20 years ago. When I say "a little," I mean little. I learned the basics and could improvise over 12 bar blues but nothing special. I didn't know about the 3 different bends on three draw and I just bent not thinking much about it. However I could bend deep or shallow (as I called it).
My point is that this was all on a MB. I started playing on a "C" MB and also had a Blues harp in G and another MB in E. I had no trouble playing any of them. I also owned a SP 20 in A. Actually that one gave me some problems on bends at the lower holes. At the time I didn't know the difference. I mostly played the C and the MB in key of E pretty much sat in my drawer. I didn't use the Blues harp at all either. This was back in 1990 or 1992 roughly. These harps sat around since then in a dresser draw at home and then down in my basement for the last 10 years. But so have my guitars and they play fine. Actually they even stay in tune! Since picking up the harp again a couple of months ago I bought a couple of new SP 20's and they play great. I bought them because I can't play my old MB's. They just don't play. The C harp looks almost new but the 3 draw doesn't really play nor does the 2 draw and bending is a no go. Sometimes the 6 draw isn't there either. If you really, really, finesse it you can get it to play a tad better but for the most part I'd say the things are unplayable.
Can sitting around all those years have done something to them? I am curious now because of the mention of "having to work" to play a MB. I had no problem when I played them years ago. I don't have the money at the moment but when I do (and after I buy a sp20 Bb) I will buy a new MB and compare. Could all my old harps just be shot from sitting around? Or is it the ease of the SP20's that killed my touch on the MB? It's odd because I didn't have a problem when I started on them 20 years ago.
Tommy
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HarveyHarp
271 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:09 AM
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Since I have to guess, and since they played well when you put them away, I would say that earwigs or some other foreign critter or matter has taken up residence in your harps. Take them apart and clean them, or enjoy the flavor.
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HarveyHarp
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arzajac
543 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:17 AM
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Hi Tommy
I buy these kinds of harps on ebay and clean them up.
Yes, having played them 20 years ago and letting them sit will affect their playability. Corrosion will set in, debris will dry up, the comb will expand and contract with the seasons causing airleak and eventually cracking.
I buy them for a few dollars and spend a few hours over a period of a few days and clean them up. I find MBs dated from the 60s and 70s clean up really well. Late 80s to late 90s, not so much - usually not worth the effort.
I remove the coverplates and drill holes for screws (coverplates as well as reedplates and comb). I remove the reedplates from the comb. I briefly soak the metal parts in CLR to deal with the rust and then scrub them with Brasso to get rid of the stains and corrosion. I drop them in an ultrasonic cleaner (a jewelry cleaner I got for less than 20 bucks) for a few minutes. They shine (almost) like new.
I sand off the finish on the perimeter of the comb and scrub the insides of the tines. I apply a water-based gloss finish on the perimeter as well as in between the tines. I draw lines along the tines of the comb and flat-sand until the lines disappear. Once it's as flat/smooth as I can get it, I rub/polish on the water-based varnish a little at a time.
I sand down the draw reedplate (the side that is in contact with the comb) making sure I don't screw up any reeds in the process. That makes both the reedplate and the comb perfectly flat. I reassemble the harp and assess it. If it's leaky, I look to see if the flat sanding is really flat. Usually the tuning is fine. Then I tinker with the curve and set the gap.
If I do this with one of my own MBs I skip finishing the comb. Flat sanding it and leaving it unfinished is better. I just don't do that with a harp I got from ebay because I don't want to end up with tetanus or polio or something...
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Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2011 10:18 AM
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Tommy the Hat
47 posts
Jun 23, 2011
10:22 AM
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I've opened them and slipped a folder piece of paper in the reeds and cleaned them a bit. A couple played a little better.... still not playable though and others no good. I'm replacing them as money allows anyway. I was just curious...no big deal really.
Thanks
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arzajac
544 posts
Jun 23, 2011
11:07 AM
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Tommy,
You could remove the reedplates, sand down the comb and then put the reedplates back on. Since these are your harps, you don't need to do a lot of work on the comb - other than just sanding it. I do think that the comb is what's causing the playability problem.
You can take a paring knife and insert it between the comb and the reedplates. Remove the knife and the nails will be raised. Don't use the knife to pry the plates off, that will bend the reedplates; Just use the knife as a wedge. Pull out the nails and do the same for the opposite side.
I think you will find the comb surface to be bumpy. If you can carefully sand it using 400 to 600 grit sandpaper, that should solve the problem. To put the reeplates back, break a small bit of a toothpick off into the nail holes. They should not protrude, rather just fill up the hole a bit. You should be able to get the nails in using a hammer and a 1/16" center punch.
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Tommy the Hat
48 posts
Jun 23, 2011
11:15 AM
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Thanks, I'll look into that. I was thinking of using these harps as my tinkering harps to learn a little more about fixing/tweaking them. I'm not really concerned about using them of fixing them for use. If they eventually work that is a plus. I was more curious if time could have caused this. I was starting to think (after reading it so much here) that it may just have been the difficulty in playing MB's. But I never had a problem back when I did play them years ago. Actually the SP 20 (A) I have from back them has the same problems. My new SP 20 (A) is great.
Tommy
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pistolero
147 posts
Jun 23, 2011
2:19 PM
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"I find MBs dated from the 60s and 70s clean up really well. Late 80s to late 90s, not so much - usually not worth the effort."
Good info. Question I have about that is when did they quit selling them in the little cardboard box and switch to plastic? If I'm looking to snag some oldies off of ebay for instance is it safe to say the ones in the cardboard box are 70's'ish or older, in general?
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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arzajac
545 posts
Jun 23, 2011
5:58 PM
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If you go to Richard Sleigh's website, you can sign up for his newsletter. In doing do, you get to download a few things he's published. One of them is the Marine Band Field spotter's guide. It has those details.
But in short, if there are three nails in between the reeds on the draw side, it's probably a decent harp. If there are only two, it was made in during a period of time when Hohner didn't update the equipment when they should have and were producing lower quality harps.
If the box says "Hicksville" on the bottom, it's probably good. If it's an old plastic box with a large image on it (the new ones have a small image on it), it's probably bad. If it has the word "Handmade" written across the plastic box, it's bad.
I think the cardboard box used to have a purple frame on it (60s) and it gradually became blue (80s). Then they switched to plastic (mid-late 80s?). So purple is good, blue not so much. (Edit, this is wrong!)
Pat Missin's site is also a good resource:
http://www.patmissin.com/ffaq/q38.html
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Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2011 6:22 PM
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arzajac
546 posts
Jun 23, 2011
6:22 PM
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Oops! I made a mistake Blue is *good*, purple is *bad*
Here are two photos:
A few Marine Band Boxes
A few Marine Band Boxes (back)
On top left are the older ones. Bottom right are the newer ones. The address used to be New York, then Hicksville, then nothing. I threw in an old Blues Harp vinyl box. Before they were MS system, they were Marine Bands with different coverplates. The only Blues Harps with a plastic case are either MS system or the ones with two nails between the tines on the draw side.
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Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2011 6:25 PM
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pistolero
148 posts
Jun 23, 2011
7:00 PM
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Thanks for the info!
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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