the_happy_honker
65 posts
Jun 13, 2011
1:40 AM
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I've been playing for almost a year. I buy a C or D harp, it plays fine for a few weeks, but then the 3-hole draw bend seems to require more and more breath force to play it at the same volume as the other notes. After a while I say, "What a crappy harp," and buy another. Same thing happens.
I assume there is a problem with the crappy player, not the crappy harp. I do try to play with some restraint, but maybe I do lean on that draw bend too hard.
The funny thing is that the pure 3-hole blow and draw notes sound just fine, no change in pitch there. So rather than weakening the reed, maybe I'm changing the gapping somehow?
Suggestions on which reed(s) should be raised/lowered are welcome. Or maybe I'm wrong about the cause and should do something else? Thanks!
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Zadozica
115 posts
Jun 13, 2011
6:47 AM
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What harp are you buying?
You might be using too much breath force and bending it too far down.
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the_happy_honker
66 posts
Jun 13, 2011
7:13 AM
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Marine Bands, mostly. But I'm sure it is not the harp that is the problem, it's me.
You may be right about the bending too far. I think the problem started when I started trying to get a vibrato on notes lower than the "blue" third.
But I would like to know if there is anything I can do to repair the harps I have or whether they are junkers.
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Zadozica
116 posts
Jun 13, 2011
8:01 AM
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Lot's of folks here do harp repair and custom jobs. The one I used is Chromaticblues.
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oldwailer
1631 posts
Jun 13, 2011
10:22 AM
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You're most likely playing with too much breath force--get a good amp and mic then just turn the volume knobs up to get loud--as opposed to blowing (or sucking) your brains out through the harp.
To fix it--just go study some of the videos on gapping--just do a search on Ytube on "gapping harmonica" and check them out.
Concentrate on the 3 BLOW reed with your gapping--that should fix your problem if you haven't actually fractured the reeds. I really doubt that you have fractured all of them--it does happen--but they go really flat when they fracture.
Do a forum search on Barbeque Bob (I think that's the right spelling--not sure) and study his comments on the subject of breath force--he has said a lot about it over the years and he is a world class player. . .
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Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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groyster1
1106 posts
Jun 13, 2011
10:50 AM
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@oldwailer
I always read bobs post and heed his advice he is very matter of fact and to the point and hohner and suzuki warn about too much breath force and the abuse it does to your harp
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jonlaing
266 posts
Jun 13, 2011
11:10 AM
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When I started I was having a similar problem too. I eventually learned that you don't actually need any more breath force to bend the note than playing it unbent. It really all comes down to throat control (some people would debate on whether it's actually your throat, but that's neither here nor there, because it feels like I'm using my thoat). Essentially to do draw bends I drop my adam's apple and open up my throat... took a while to figure out and get control of, but I don't need any extra force to bend the note by using that technique. So far I've had the same OOTB harps for over a year, and they're JUST starting to go out of tune. Same goes for overblows, I don't need any extra force to pop them up. I'm still working on the blow bends... they're a little more stubborn in that respect.
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Icemaster
33 posts
Jun 13, 2011
11:24 AM
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Use a tuner. That will show you exactly how far you're bending. I did this the other day and my blue thirds weren't low enough. Works great for other bends as well. Not many of us have perfect pitch. Good to know where you're at because what you think it should sound like may not be right. In blues its ok to be a little off but sometimes you need to hit that note perfect for a horn line or something.
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"A harmonica is not just a souped up kazoo" -Mo Rocca
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groyster1
1109 posts
Jun 13, 2011
12:58 PM
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@Ice
I own a korg tuner I bought just to tune a dulcimer I agree it helps to use it on my bends to see if Im scrubbing off the right amount of pitch
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geordiebluesman
421 posts
Jun 13, 2011
1:58 PM
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Hi Honker, i had this exact same problem when i started out and it was caused by two things,Firstly i was blowing and drawing WAY too hard and that often damaged reeds or at best altered the gapping in a bad way and Secondly because i was blowing like a goodun i was saturating the harps with saliva this would then dry up and eventually gumm up the works, a full strip down and clead with Surgical Spirit got em going again.
The problem seems to have gone away now as my tecnique has improved i find i play drier so clean your harps always rinse your mouth out before playing and try not to blow or draw to hard, well untill the madness takes hold and you find yourself bent double, foot stamping, eyes bulging and cheeks bulging!
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barbequebob
1661 posts
Jun 14, 2011
7:53 AM
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Using too much breath force is far too common and 98% of ALL beginning harp players are CLEARLY going to be guilty of this and often have no clue that they're doing it, especially if they're teaching themselves and the vast majority of players with that problem are those teaching themselves as they don't have any real guidance or being around good players who know better. Too much breath force is flat out BAD PLAYING TECHNIQUE.
On top of that, many beginners tend to force bends to happen out of frustration, and then they tend to play FAR harder than ever, making a bad situation MUCH WORSE, and that's also another BAD PLAYING TECHNIQUE, and the two together tends to compound the problem a hundred fold and everyone who does that bends past the floor of the bend, and what happens from the needless amount of stress the reed is being put thru, microscopic cracks AKA stress fractures form on the reeds and once that happens, the pitch no only goes way down, the structure of the metal is so badly comprimised that it will never be able to be retuned and the weak feeling is a sign that any more playing on the reed like that, the reed in a worse case scenerio will break apart and you may wind up swallowing it and get badly infected.
98% of beginners, again, are CLEARLY guilty of this and two other problems beginners have, ESPECIALLY if they're teaching themselves how to play, are bending past the floor of the bend, and also holding the harp too far away to make proper contact and the last one is usually among players using the pucker/lip block/lip purse method and so tons of air is leaking thru the embouchure and a common complaint because of doing this is that "the holes are too small."
Many players do teach themselves successfully, but players who are teaching themselves are 80% more like to get into tons of bad playing habits and techniques, and I"m largely self taught and if I had a teacher much earlier, many things that I had to work like hell to undo would've been taken care of much faster because a teacher, once they hear it, will quickly get on your butt to stop it dead in its tracks before it becomes heavily ingrained.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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orphan
25 posts
Jun 14, 2011
9:37 AM
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First I want to thank Barbeque Bob for being a member of this forum. Bob you truly are an asset to us among other things. Thank you for being able to specifically say what needs to be done to take us further along in our harp journey. I remember a post I made about six months ago re: the 3d". Your advice and comments were spot on. The statement "Its going to take some SERIOUS WOODSHEDDING" was not a thought, but a fact. Last night I got the tone and the intonation that had been missing. I am not out of the woods yet by any means, still a lot of bad technique that has got to be fixed. But as I have made progress with breath force, pitch, and scales a whole lot of music is available to me on the same harp I always felt limited by. It was me not the harp! I know you already knew that but want to thank you again for getting me on the right path.
orphan
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barbequebob
1663 posts
Jun 15, 2011
7:49 AM
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@ Orphan --- Thank you and no problem at all!! I learned too much the hard way, but the greatest single lesson about tone and control and breath control was from Big Walter Horton, demonstrating how he played the opening lick on his cover of Can't Hold On Much Longer on MY Marine Band harp and noticed how SOFTLY he played it and once I got home, and practiced it, it opened up HUGE doors for me and was a lesson I NEVER forgot and consider myself lucky to have befriended him.
@ Happy Honker --- Again, if the reed feels weak, if you try to retune it, and the pitch drops rather than goes up even once, don't bother with it anymore because from bad playing technique, the reed got BADLY DAMAGED and it's time to either trash it or get a new set of reed plates.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
1111 posts
Jun 15, 2011
9:58 AM
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@barbque
madcat ruth took some lessons from walter horton and said they were priceless I have never had a one on one lesson from anyone but I also appreciate your advice and also dont like to abuse good harps maybe thats why i get so much life from them
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the_happy_honker
67 posts
Jun 15, 2011
2:43 PM
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Thanks to everyone who replied to my post.
Another factor in the wear that I put on the harp may be that there is a little delay between the onset of the draw breath and the sounding of the bent note. It throws the rhythm off and kills the drive. I need to get my embouchure arranged earlier, but I wind up hitting the note harder instead.
Barbeque Bob - Thanks for checking back. I was wondering whether your first post advocated just throwing the harps out.
Count me in too as a fan of yours and the other experienced players on this forum who dish out tough love and tall tales now and then.
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