I was playing yesterday at a little festival and was having severe sound separation problems- this happens a lot and i was wondering waht you guys do about it- the specific issue is that, though high harps (notably F) cut through superbly the lower end ones get mixed up with the sound of the stand up bass.... the sound desk guy was...well... average, but that particular issue had him floored. BTW- my set up is a bullet mic running into and old WEM valve amp (pretty grungey and driving)... any suggestion (EQ tweaks..?) welcome
Always set up with your lowest key harp, so that you can identify the point where the bass/tone control stops adding full bass response, before it just starts adding mud. With some tone stacks, when you set the bass knob full up, this actually halves the power that the amp can make (hence you see manufacturer's specified settings for Wattage tests).
If your amp is grungey & driving it makes it harder work for it to project low frequencies as these load the power supply more (again, a good reason to sound check with the lowest harp you use). Also for every octave you drop....even if the amp covers the range perfectly...a sound is perceived as half as loud.
Try not to be in the "throw" of the bass amp, even if your amp works great, the bass may swamp your low end.
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2011 8:12 AM
Try cleaning the sound of your amp up. Less bass, maybe more middle and/or treble.This will help it cut more. Pre-amp tube changes to 12AX7 will also give more front to a note,which will also help cut through. I generally have/had problems playing chromatic and my amp is now set relatively clean, with high middle, no treble and bass less than half.
Don't know if you have a keyboard player? I had to ask ours to play more in the upper octaves as when he played around the middle during my solo's it turned to mud as we were competing in the same octave. ---------- The Pentatonics Myspace Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
the secret is to play very quiet. Set the harp/vocal first against the band if the harp is going through the PA. Stage volume should be at a level that you can converse easily in a normal voice. Also most players sound check on one level and then turn it up as the gig goes along. What usually happens is an ongoing increase in volume for most bands as the set goes along. The bass turns up to hear himself, then the guitarist turns up to hear over the bass, and so on........ The harp and vocals can get buried real quick in this scenario. I would like to say this a trend with amatuers, but I have seen it with top pro players as well. When I play with others they fit my volume level(speaking voice) or they are not playing. Where did I learn this? From many sources firsthand, most noteably willie nelson and merele haggard. Another thing- on big stages only use the monitors for vocals and harp if it is going through the PA unless the soundman is a real pro. Most festivals are so rushed it is a one size fits all at best for the mix. I have shocked many a soundman when I tell them to turn off the monitors. That sounds better than the crap mix they put through the monitors. everything today is loud and bass dominant and that is not the sound I want. Let the other instruments be at amp, acoustic drum levels. Stay close together and you will hear fine. Most people play most of their lives on small crowded stages and when they get on big ones they spread out like they see others do. That is a fatal mistake for a sound mess. Stick to what you know no matter what size the stage.
here is a video with sean carney. Sean is one of the bright up and coming blues players. He knows how to fit the volume. We played in my studio with a room full of people and people could converse easily while we played. Note we had both guitars in the same princeton reverb and had a small speaker for the vocals/harp. the drums and cymbal are acoustic and I gently tap them with my feet. Anybody can play loud,fast, busy. It takes a whole lot more skill to play quiet, leave space. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I find the great decision to get fattest possible tone very loud. I use Harp Attack as amp emalutor and DI box after all of my effects. I plug balanced output from DI box to PA, while thru output to amp. I have al great amp overtones from amp and clearness and volume of PA. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
i do my sound check at 3/4 on my mics volume control -that way i have 1/4 'in reserve' (my secret!) to cut thru when the band gets too loud which is always!
i like that idea @ 5F6H of using my lowest key for sound check!! ---------- ~Banned in Boston!
Barry C: That is what I am talking about. Most players cheat big time on the soundcheck assuming they will have to crank it up later and when one person cranks up, so the others fall in line and it just continues the cycle. I can't tell you how many bands I have been on bills with that started the first song at a perfect volume but by the 2 and 3rd were deafing. I lived in austin during the SRV era. That was the loudest volume scene I have ever been around. Chris duarte use to open for my band at the black cat lounge. I really like chris as a person and player, but he was so loud I had to go 1/2 down the block on 6th street until his set was over. He started loud and got to white noise levels playing a guitar through a near max'd out twin reverb in a club that held 80 people...... I rarely go out to clubs anymore and stay way backstage at festivals because the volume level is painful. Ron thompson, john lee hookers longtime guitarist, taught me to hang outside until playing. He told his ears got tired if he stayed inside and listened to the opening acts due to their volume. Jimmie Carl Black, who was my on and off drummer for 8 years, could swing the hell out of a beat and never get above conversation levels. That is a pro IMO. Walter
the other 3 trouble ingredients in the loud mix scenario are alcohol, deafness, and adrenilin. You would be amazed at the level of deafness amoung long time pros. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Adjusting the tone controls on your amp so it has balanced response for all keys of harps is important and not necessarily easy to do. Too much bass and you get mud. If your amp has a midrange control that's where the action is. Also, you may need a little more treble than you might think in order to get enough "cut."
Using a bullet mic doesn't help. I realize many others will disagree with me, but the problem you describe is one of the many reasons I don't use a bullet mic. Bullets are generally low quality mics to begin with and a high quality harp friendly dynamic mic (like a Shure 545, for example) will go along way to help solve the problem you are describing since it simply has wider frequency response.
I have no idea how much you play out live in public. But what sounds good at home doesn't always work well on stage in a live performance environment. And you can't always control how the rest of the musicians set up their amplification. Personally, I have been able to get pretty good quality tone, volume and "cut"in a wide variety of live performance situations by using a 545 Ultimate which has an integral volume control. This allows me to crank my amp up to its "sweet spot" and then use the VC on the mic to reduce the mic's output in order to control feedback and adjust performance volume. Many tube amps "come alive" and give great depth of tone and "cut" at higher volume settings but you need to be able to reduce how "hot" the signal coming from the mic is in order to be able to set the amp up that way or else you get feedback and unusable volume levels. But cranking the amp up to its responsive "sweet spot" and then reducing the output at the mic produces a nicely balanced and better quality performance tone that "cuts." One of the problems with most bullet mics is they have reduced frequency response and don't give you a quality signal to start with, so this technique won't necessarily work well with most bullets. But I am sure that others will disagree. FWIW.
I want to echo what HVYJ said above, what sounds good at home, probably wont work on stage.
The most common problems I hear is TOO MUSC BASS, and keep in mind, I am a bass player. That bass tone adds MUD to the sound, so to hear better, everyone turns up, but it just gets worse.
I ussually set our vocal PA (we don't mic drums and guitars) with the EQ cutting out 100hz and lower. I play with the bass pickup rolled back and the treble pickup on full.
Last, there is no cure for a local syndrome that affects singer/guitar players that we call O.D.E.(Old Deaf Elvis Syndome), you may find this problem speading to your area too. You just got to grin and bear it. ---------- The WV State Harmonica Championship at The Diamond Teeth Mary Blues Festival Aug 27th & 28th 2011, Huntington,WV
Make sure your amp isn't in a corner ("corner loading" boosts bottom end)
If you're on a hollow stage floor , put the amp/cabinet on a stand, chair or beer crate to reduce the effect of the whole floor resonating with bass frequencies.
Reduce any reliance on reverb and delay effects which push you further back into the mix.
Thanks for the info guys- I'll absorb all this over my lunch reak and take action! "I have no idea how much you play out live in public."- lots but mainly as an R&B tenor sax player not on harp... a full gig on harp is a bit of a rarity for me.....
