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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
The CM element
The CM element
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colynjames
9 posts
May 28, 2011
12:54 PM
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I'm a noob as far as harp goes, but I've been playing music and singing for years. Our band decided to move into a more bluesy style of music, but play original stuff (as much as is possible, considering the genre, but original lyrics, anyway).
We decided I'd try to play harp and see if I had an aptitude for it, and I immediately fell in love with it. I'm going to be putting down my guitar and just doing vocals and filling and soloing with the harp very soon, in fact.
Of course, picking up the harp has led to equipment questions and tone searching, etc. I've heard a lot of great harp playing from people using a lot of great equipment, and some guys using some of the cheapest mics I've ever heard of. Anyway, I've run into the CM/CR crowd while exploring the bullet style mic option, and of course, discovered the "gold-like" value put upon the older elements.
All of that to ask this: Why isn't someone replicating that old style element successfully? I mean, it was probably one of the cheapest mic elements of the day during it's mass production. What makes it so difficult to reproduce, even on the small scale that the harp community would provide?
Please inform me of my ignorance, and I'll be glad for the reply. As I stated, I'm a noob, and hoping to educate myself along the way as I purchase equipment. It just struck me as strange how the harp mic niche is demanding the vintage mic sounds and how the harp mic manufacturers (not the custom guys) basically ignore the demand for those elements that are prized by the community. You'd think they'd be able to tinker around enough to at least replicate the vintage mics effectively, even if the materials used back then weren't feasible to use today.
Hope you all have a great weekend. Play some harp at the cookout and have a fantastic time doing it.
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Joe_L
1269 posts
May 28, 2011
2:15 PM
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It's pure economics. There aren't enough harp players out there to justify the expense.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on May 28, 2011 2:16 PM
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rharley5652
498 posts
May 28, 2011
3:08 PM
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I agree with Joe _L,..
Those CM/CR Elements & Mics were made for Ham Operators and the likes of Police,.Transportation Services,.Commercial,.Industrial,.
With the age of cell phones an computers,.most of the above fell to the way side ,.
They Never were made for/with the Harp Player in mind,.the cost to make/retool for a CR/CM would out way the income/profit ,..so Shure came out with the 520DX Dynamic an Hohner/ Astatic gave the BluesBlaster & Roadhouse ,..both with cheap Japan elements !!!
The Harp player's tone was not in mind when Shure/Hohner/ Astatic made these so-called Harp Microphones ,.but the harp players dollars was !!
You Buy one of these mics an then search for a CR/CM to put in them,.
Bottom line ,.whom ever buys/hoards up the most CR/Cm's on ebay or where-ever will recoup their money 10 fold ,.as harp players will have to buy the Real Macoys from some one .
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on May 28, 2011 3:09 PM
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didjcripey
97 posts
May 29, 2011
2:12 AM
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Whoever is buying up all the CR/CM elements, could you give us a break now and again? I'd like to have just a few, preferably without paying silly prices for them!
I've tried quite a few of the 'other' harp mic elements, and although the CM isn't the only good element for harp mics, nothing sounds quite like them, especially on tongue slaps. I suspect that the size of the diaphragm may have something to do with it.
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Lucky Lester
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Stevelegh
221 posts
May 29, 2011
3:10 AM
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Probably a question for Greg Heumann. He makes the best mics in the business. Here's a link to his PDF on his website all about harp microphones:
http://blowsmeaway.com/all%20about%20harmonica%20microphones.pdf
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Ray
338 posts
May 29, 2011
6:57 AM
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When you are at a flea-markets or garage sales look for a General Electric mobile mic with the model # EM25A. They are gray with red button and silver metal grill. They have the 99A86 Controlled Magnetic elements in them. Even if it says assembled in Mexico. Get it. :o)
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jbone
536 posts
May 29, 2011
6:59 AM
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one big impact on these high z elements, and others like the crystals- was the solid state tide starting in the 60's. all the solid state stuff was and is pretty much low z. if you look around these days you can find low z mics for real cheep along with p.a.'s and amps to match.
it's almost the same question as why i can't find a medium sized 4-banger suv that's a real suv these days- demand.
digital advances also have a role here. if you can plug a mic into a small processor and get an approximate sound to what a cm mic/tube amp sounds like, there are plenty of folks who will go that route rather than go old school.
but something else to consider: there have been plenty of us who have played through the band's p.a. and managed to sound pretty dang good. the chicago sound is not the only desirable sound out there. sometimes a clean clear sound is essential as well. i'm glad to have both options, and glad i spent the $$ back in the day for a crystal and a couple of cm's.
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Greg Heumann
1135 posts
May 29, 2011
9:28 AM
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Decent CM's can be had for reasonable money, well UNDER $100. On the other hand I just saw a CR for for $270 on eBay. It is just plain stupid to pay that much for an element on eBay unless it is offered with a 'return for full refund if you're not satisfied' policy. Now, I DO charge nearly that much for a black CR - but that is because
- I do offer such a policy
- I have to buy lots of elements on places like ebay and take the risk so you don't have to - and I have to absorb the cost of the garbage ones
- You can come to my shop and try hand pick your element if you like
- I will advise you of your options at all price points
- You can talk to me in person
As for manufacturing them - the volume doesn't justify the tooling cost, simple as that. There is no other market for an element that costs much more to make, and yet, from an engineering perspective, grossly underperforms modern cheap elements.
"Modeling" one is a valid approach but won't get all of the way there, any more than today's best systems STILL can't truly replicate the sound of a genuine Hammond B3 with a Leslie - and THAT is something many manufacturers have tried to do.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on May 29, 2011 9:29 AM
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