I have a David Grisman album, Hot Dawg, (with Stephan Grapelli) that get's stuck in my head for days at a time. I'd like to get that minor swing out of my head and into a harmonica and would love some help figuring out the best way to do that.
A guy named Zack said: "It is contained within A minor and D minor arpeggios." Then Vassilis suggested it is a C Major harp in 4th position, and finally Bruno says it's a gypsy tuning.
I have two versions of the song to consider: Mariano Massolo on Harmonica, tearing it up nicely, but with many gymnastics (it could sound sweeter), and David Grisman with a group where they are calling out the chords as they cycle through them. (Grisman's team plays sweeter sounding solos, imho)
Approach: In order to solo all over this genre like Grisman's group, Would it be more effective with a custom tuning (if so what?) or just learn gymnastics?
Many thanks to all who participate!
Mariano Massolo shreds Minor Swing:
David Grisman, Dennis Ludiker, Chad Manning - Minor Swing
---------- "If you want to hide, find a stage." ~John Popper
Chris Michalek used to play it, and I have heard a few guys play it in 3rd position. I may have been that Zack guy you speak of, as I recall speaking to someone about that song a little while back.
You are the Zack! I saw a YouTube vid you did. Impressive. Could it be that a Natural Minor Tuning would open up Swing music in general? ---------- "If you want to hide, find a stage." ~John Popper
Yeah! Sign me up for this thread. My neighbour plays the guitar bit for this and I'd like to be able to drop my harp into it. I have a G harp, and could play in third position but I just can't get it to sound right. Some pointers would be good and really appreciated. ----------
After a casual listen, it sounds like he might be overblowing and/or playing in some exotic position, but he's not playing any notes that you couldn't hit on a harmonic minor tuned harp in 1st position, without OBs.
Dave Toussaint says it's a 6th position tuning: this one has raised one semitone blow 1,4,7,10 and lowered? one semitone draw 2 plus raised one semitone draw 5 and draw 9
Dave Toussaint's Jazz Tuning #1 | C | E | G | C | E | G | C | E | G | C | | D | F#| B | D | F#| A | B | D | F#| A | Root note is 3 draw - This is not the Jazz Minor tuning above ----------------------------------------- Lee Osker Natural Minor (2nd position is harp key/this is Gm)
I learned that the violin solos in Minor Swing are along the Harmonic Minor scale. So kudos to Bruno Yxenholt (Gypsy Jazz) and Kevin Baker for nailing that right off the top!
The harmonic minor scale is the same as the natural minor scale, except that the seventh tone is raised by a semitone (half step) both ascending and descending(Hear audio link here).
In order to solo "all over" Minor Swing in a bluesy way, one would need the harmonic minor scale in second position. Lee Oskar sells Natural Minor scale in 2nd, and Harmonic Minor in 1st. Mariano Massolo (above) is apparently playing a C harmonica in third Position (D) and requires OB gymnastics that don't sound sweet.
The main chords in Minor Swing are Am, Dm, G, and E7 (or Bdim). What mode is it? What key would a harmonic minor tuned harmonica be in to play in 2nd position?
@ jimjam I think A natural minor would be the chioce, But I don't know the song and it matters if the notes of the melody call for an Ab or a G. On a Harmonic Minor harp the 5 draw is Ab and the Natural Minor is G. I have a feeling(no this is without knowing the song) That your going to have to pick between overblowing to get the Ab on a Natural Minor or Draw bend on a Harmonic Minor if you want to play the root note on the G chord. You may not have to play the G. I don't know. All the other chord notes are there. So Its possible that it may lay out on the Am Harmonic Minor easily. You just have to go over the melody and see which one matches the best. I always like to pick the harp that best fits the melody even if your just soloing. Its just easier not to mess up.
he is playing minor Swing in 4th position (Am in a C harp. While we haven´t worked this particular song I can tell you that he doesn't overblow too much in this song. Only when the harmony calls for it.
I personally have found his version of minor sing the best for diatonic harmonica. And I don't tshare that "gymnastic" thing. The guy knows what he is doing. It not jsut random scales, he is pyating within the music. Goign from fast to slow, and taking profit of the diatonic harmonica "expressiveness" (beatiful vibrato, sweet bending and in tune playing).
Personally I did not like very much the "Grisman" version. I think the violin parts are not sweet. But I guess we all have different opinions.
The harmony of minor swing is as follows
Am6/ Dm6/ E7b9/ Am6/ Dm6/ Am6/ E7/ Am6/ E7 for a total of 16 bars.
If you wish to know wich notes you want to play you have to decompose every chord into its notes. peharps the most useful thing is to learn wich notes to avoid!! And remember Am is your tonic, circle around it and most likely you will be in tune.
I personally play this song in thid position as Chris Michaleck did.
In third position you can play in the dorian Mode (play the first position diatonic scale BUt starting in -1 and ending in -4 = -1 +2 -2´´ -2 -3'' -3 +4 -4
Think of blues scale in third position but with added notes +2 -3 (those added notes are essential for the harmony of the chords).
Well I recorded this little Bit. Of couse I'm miles away from guys like Mariano or Chris, but it can give you a little hint of how you could improvise over minor swing without needing super fast runs but jsut flowing along with the rythm using less notes.
@scojo Yes 4th on a C harp would work well. 3rd you have the Am6 chord though. A chrom in third would also work well. G chrom is Am6 on the draw 1234. I'm going to fart around with it when I get home. I think my half valved CX12 in C is probably better because of the tonality and I can play it fast. I don't know I'm not a Jazz man.
Last Edited by on May 20, 2011 12:29 PM
