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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Question for you solo act types...
Question for you solo act types...
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HarpNinja
1411 posts
May 04, 2011
6:09 AM
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Obviously, this has been on my mind recently. Actually, it has been the last two years.
For you solo acts - whether it be harpboxing, looping, one man band, etc - how long do you play? How long does the audience stay with you when you play?
I am approaching a bit of a crossroads in which I have to weigh the involvement of live performance vs public perception in my professional life. One option I am weighing is to start working on a solo show in the hopes of doing some random dates and such, but I am concerned about the amount of material needed.
Let me clarify, I am not worried about coming up and rehearsing and practicing the music. I am worried about the attention span of others. Can I hold an audience by myself for multiple sets?
It seems with limited exception the norm is to play a short set or two from what I've seen online. I just don't know how many opportunities there'd be like that here.
Option 2 is the idea of doing a duo with a multi-instrumentalist.
Those of you who know me know I like to think and plan way ahead. As it stands now, I'd have a year or so to make this work. I am about to about a 20 minute set of stuff I can do on my right this minute if I had to. I'd like to expand that to at least an hour and am considering getting guitar lessons just to add filler (I can only play a few chords). It would be a mixture of straight solo harp and looped tunes. It would be very blues based and sort of the harp equivalent of Otis Taylor...but happy, lol. I would for sure use different effects and include some vocal effects. I am uncertain about using "backing" type tracks like drum loops. I would MAYBE do a LITTLE beatboxing, but it just isn't where my heart is.
Ultimately, this is becoming a viable option because of the type of venues near my home and how it would be perceived at work. My current band and format is the most fun I've ever had, but it is clearly something at least mildly frowned upon by the higher ups and, to be honest, I want to climb the ladder.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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MrVerylongusername
1687 posts
May 04, 2011
6:42 AM
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This goes back to the whole entertainer vs. musician thing.
If you ever get the chance (or have already) to see Son of Dave you will know what I mean. If it was just the music, much though I love it, I'd have lost interest after 30mins. But it isn't just the music: he works and involves the crowd - there is a lot of space between numbers (where actually he is discretely building up his loops). He understands the balance between showmanship and musicianship. He's big, brash and (at least on the stage) ego driven. What you get is as much about theatre and comedy (his on-stage patter is hilarious) as it is about the harp playing or the looping or the overall musicianship. Loops are inherently limiting on the chord patterns, so there is a danger that the music itself will become too repetitive too quickly without the 'other' element.
Mr Woodnote relies more on the music, but I think there is a difference between street performance (where people do float in and out) and on-stage in a venue. (I also have a nagging feeling, hard to put into words, that the tonal qualities of the sax are less restricting than the harp). When I saw Mr Woodnote he was working with a talented and engaging MC. The fact that it was a duo did hold my attention longer. What struck me was the energy and movement.
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HarpNinja
1413 posts
May 04, 2011
6:50 AM
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Thanks for the great post. I am a rather huge Otis Taylor fan and he's made a living off of vamps, however, I think he presents the material different live, too.
I like the idea of including a drummer. I mean, I think I could carry a half hour or so of music, but for more than that, I think a drummer would add a great deal. Long story short, there is a dueling pianos act that is a fantastic show. They mix things up every few songs by having one of them play guitar, bass, or drums for a song or two. I see a great benefit to that, but again, it becomes ensemble playing and I personally run into the issue of knowing many great guys to play with...but they all live in the Cities.
In fact, I could field 3-4 separate bands from up there, lol. I need something close to home. I thought about concentrating on YouTube or recording for an outlet, but I think I like playing live almost better than playing harmonica.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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waltertore
1316 posts
May 04, 2011
10:27 AM
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This is a tough one to answer. I have been a 1 man band for the past 10 years and on and off for the past 35 years. In my younger days I could do all night in the 1 man band or full band set up. I could do 4 sets and a 4 hours before the gig too. Nowadays, getting closer to 60, I find I am good for 2 sets with either set up. I no longer want to play 4 sets. I say find your balance and go with it. If you are fairly new to the 1 man band thing, you will find it exhausting in the early days. Also your repitore will be limited by skills. The one man band is a whole new concept if you are use to being in a band or duo set up. I am talking where you play everything. No loops or other gizmos to fall back on. With a true one man all real instrument band, when you stop the whole thing stops. Most 1 man bands make a fatal mistake that trios and duos make- they try to compensate for a not having a whole band and basically make a wall of sound all night. That leads to burning out the audience after a few songs and thus the one man band is generally viewed as a novelty act by most. Also most mediocre musicians constantly fear losing the audience. A great musician lures them in on his terms. That is what the old bluesmen taught me more than anything- be yourself and let that uniqueness shine. The great news with the 1 man band is you no longer are dependent on anyone for anything! I would never go back to playing with others regularly. Being self contained you can keep any times you want, and basically do anything without having to communicate with bandmates- a really freeing thing. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on May 04, 2011 10:43 AM
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Jim Rumbaugh
500 posts
May 04, 2011
10:44 AM
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The venue will dictate depth of repertoire'
When our club plays in a parade, the number of tunes we need is TWO. The same people that hear you start a tune, rarley hear you end it.
I played the street once last year, at Cental City Days. Most people walked by, rarley staying for more than 2 tunes.
Your sanity may require more tunes. If you play a long day, you can go crazy playing the same stuff over and over, even though it may work for the audiance that you have.
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The WV State Harmonica Championship at The Diamond Teeth Mary Blues Festival Aug 27th & 28th 2011, Huntington,WV
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chromaticblues
820 posts
May 04, 2011
10:56 AM
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Yes Walter I played in Duo 10 to 13 years ago with a guy that was a great slide dobro player, but he (as you described) had to compenste and create a wall of sound. He would always tell people that we could make as much music as a 5 piece band.
When ever I played a solo I was lucky if I could get 24 bars. It was usually 12 bars. I don't know about anybody else, but 12 bars just gets me going. I'm not even done building stuff to play off.
It was always a rush. Kind of ironic to play in a Blues duo and be in a rush.
He suffered from what Walter stated.
Blues is something you have to feel. It doesn't always have to be in perfect time. Sometimes its better when it isn't. Also (as Walter stated) its tough playing with other people. I really like the duo concept. I just haven't been able to find anyone that is both good enough or into blues based music.
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waltertore
1317 posts
May 04, 2011
11:01 AM
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chromaticblues: I got high blood pressure reading your post :-) I find most harp players today either played so controlled/predicatable it is boring to death, or they fill up every inch of space with nonstop notes. I should extend this concept to most all musical instruments. I hope you find the right person to play with. They are out there but it is like winning the lottery. I had the same bassist for 15 years. I missed him so much I became a 1 man band. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,800+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on May 04, 2011 11:03 AM
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HarpNinja
1420 posts
May 04, 2011
11:11 AM
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Hence my love of Otis Taylor...he keeps things relatively simple, even with a full band sound.
I think the huge advantage of a duo/trio is that you DON'T have to fill up tons of space. Why compete with a full band?
There is a time, place, and manner. I like the idea of balancing acapella numbers with solo harp with solo harp/vocals, harpbox, and some looping. That being said, I think anything more than an hour and even I'd get bored.
It would really need to be a "featured act" thing vs trying to carry a whole night. I have some woodshedding to do, but I think adding some solo guitar would be cool too. Honestly, I am not entirely sure there'd be a huge market for this, but maybe.
I don't think I'd like using backing tracks either.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on May 04, 2011 11:12 AM
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Joe_L
1230 posts
May 04, 2011
12:01 PM
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Mike - I have been toying with doing something similar. I was planning on trying it out at an open mic and seeing how it goes.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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barbequebob
1627 posts
May 04, 2011
12:19 PM
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If you avoid having a drummer, the one thing that it will make you learn how to do is to play much more rhythmically and if you're gonna do a real one man band thing, don't be surprised how much more chording you'll be having to do and having harps tuned to either just or a comprimise will help more than ET tuning will.
Occasionally, for a tune, I do something entirely alone and having a much more rhythmic approach helps out a lot and you learn quickly that you cannot afford to waste a single note.
You are gonna see how musican and entertainer are going to be completely intertwined and you'll need some of both to pull this off. I did a solo thing on the Boston subways for a few weeks and it was a good training ground for it, especially for doing it acoustically, but they now let people use low powered amps as well.
If you're inclined to be heavily on the melodic side, you will really need to find a way to strike a balance between playing rhythmically as well as melodically so that you never lose or screw up a goove, which can happen in a hurry.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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bluzlvr
428 posts
May 04, 2011
1:38 PM
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Wouldn't the term "one man band" be an oxymoron?
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myspace
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eharp
1296 posts
May 04, 2011
3:53 PM
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sorry, mike. my attention waned after the first paragraph.
lol
i've been playing places using backing tracks, since i cant find anybody who wants to play what i want. mainly parties and bbq type deals and a little on the street. i got 10 songs.
if i want to play more, i use other lyrics while repeating the bt. no one seems to notice.
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J-Sin
47 posts
May 04, 2011
5:34 PM
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I think it depends on what else do you have in the mix. Sometimes I play a set with maybe 20 minutes of music and 15 minutes of storytelling/stand up. Or even half and half. And people are laughing their asses of and enjoying. Ideally for me it's a performance. Also I try to create a buildup by playing different things and then combining them (e.g. solo beatbox skit - beatbox harmonica - mellow looper song - upbeat balkan tune - introduce a new instrument - etc...).
I think most gigs, be it a duo or 9-piece band, are too long to begin with, and I usually start getting bored after 45 minutes or so. I prefer a tight 40-minute set to 2 lenghtier sets, for example. I still resist playing 2 sets myself, be it a band or a solo thing. I believe both the performers and the audience would prefer one intense set, so my fingers point to bar owners who want to sell more beer by splitting the performances. Not that my music would be ideal for watering holes like that anyway. Just the idea of a solo harpist playing 2x40 minute sets makes my brains hurt.
If I had to give one advice, I think it would be: don't compromise. If you're doing solo stuff, you should be doing it because it rises from your heart like a rocket. It should be YOU like no other form of art. If it's a short 30 minute set you think works best, search for venues that are interested in shows like that - don't make it longer just because they want to. My next solo show will be at a big open air rock festival for kids -- they asked for 30 minutes and still pay well. And I'm sure it'll be fun.
For me it's a performance that includes acting, telling jokes, playing music, chatting - creating a world, or so to speak. If you create a world powerful enough, it can last for 2 hours straight. I'm sure Tom Waits could do that with nothing but a piano. Maybe the most challenging part is when you start studying your own charisma ans estimating how far it can take you.
That said, I still think I could use another person on stage sometimes, as concentrating on the looping sometimes seems too static and boring. Tomorrow I'll have my first try with a mime artist. So let's see how that goes.
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Reed to the Beat!
World music trio Sigi Tolo
SoundCloud
Finno-Turkish Lazer-Klezmer
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dougharps
67 posts
May 04, 2011
9:09 PM
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You really don't have to just choose one approach, and be stuck with that approach. You can adapt and change what you do as you find what works for you, what you enjoy, and what the audience will stay with. If it isn't keeping a crowd, or it isn't fun, try something different.
Or you could also do a little of several things: do a solo act and have a separate duo or trio. Loop, or have a duo or trio; play acoustic or amplified, etc.
Find out what is tolerable for you to do and still be able to successfully "climb the ladder."
One of the longest running "solo" acts in Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, was Keith Harden, a singer/songwriter/guitar player who had an electric blues band that played periodically regionally. But he also did a lot of solo gigs and played harp in a rack. He did blues, folk, country, and originals. He had a weekly show at a local club where he would play one set solo, then have a guest performer do 2 more sets with him as a duo. The guests were often singer/guitar players from local bands, but he also had percussionists and keyboard players and fiddlers and sax players and harp players. It was entertaining to see these match-ups and how they interacted musically. You could see performers away from their bands, down to basics, and it was good!
He moved to NY for a while, and is now in Nashville.
While I am amazed by what people can do as a one man band or by looping, I really value the musical interaction of more than one musician making music together. But then... that's just my opinion.
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Doug S.
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boris_plotnikov
529 posts
May 04, 2011
11:47 PM
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I just started beatbox and looping. I don't feel I can make a long great show yet, at least as I'm weak singer plus too looping playalongs are monotonous (as I use Boss RC2 yet), however I can play 3-5 different tunes (if it's enough for my set) or mix them with playing with some playalongs (I hate to play with playalongs, but it's the way to get maximum money from gig).
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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kudzurunner
2473 posts
May 05, 2011
5:11 AM
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Mike:
I've been too busy this week to respond to this thread, but obviously I'm interested in your Q&A!
My short answer is: If you feel moved to explore in this direction, you absolutely should move ahead and explore. You have nothing to lose by doing so. My own OMB journey has been immeasurably rewarding, and it's still in a fairly early phase. Having the option of going it alone, even if only for one 45-minute set, greatly expands your range as a gigging musician. Suddenly you can be booked as an opener; suddenly, if asked to come and teach a clinic somewhere, you're able to say, "And I can end the clinic with a OMB set." You're forced to become a bandleader, in a sense, if you weren't that before (and I was a sideman before; I have't lead my own band). You're forced to come up with a solo setlist, and THAT is useful.
You start listening differently to drummers--because you're trying to steal/adapt their beats.
You become conscious of your own inadequacies as a solid beat-keeper. Or, alternately--and this also happened in my case--you feel galvanized by knowing what it's like to play for the first time with a drummer (yourself!) who REALLY grooves with you like a blood-brother.
It's this last point that made the OMB journey so galvanizing to me. I felt like an airplane that had suddenly taken off. There was a huge energy release.
This is why I'm not interested in playing along with backing tracks, for example. I'd lose all that. I'm interested in making and dwelling within a living groove of my OWN creation, in real time.
For the same reason, looping doesn't appeal to me. But again: if it appeals to you--and it appeals to Brandon and many others who work wondrous things with it--you should certainly do it.
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HarpNinja
1422 posts
May 05, 2011
5:59 AM
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Thanks for the continued posts as there is a wealth of great information.
It is pretty normal for me to be walking around the house with a harmonica going, so yesterday I was jamming "solo" tunes.
With my electric rig, I can already do the following:
Grinnin in Your Face
Nine Below Zero
Another Man Done Gone
An original solo vamp
Right Side of Heaven - Otis Taylor tune with beatboxing/looping
A blues boogie with looping
Sunshine of Your Love with beatboxing/looping
Cocaine with beatboxing/looping
The song Hell Hound intrigues me as well as a couple of Otis Taylor tunes. I also have some original material that would translate to this format, I think. I had been practicing with a single loop since SPAH and working on solo vamping before that, but I didn't realize how much more I could do with the looper until yesterday.
I was able to add several layers to some of those tunes which really added a lot. There is a way I can use effects as well, but I haven't figured out how to do it without adding the effect to the loop as well.
I am fairly certain there is a way to set a loop with one effect, add an overdub with another, and then solo with another, but I don't know how yet.
If I were to continue this path and start gigging I would really want to get a POG2 and a better rotary effect than the M13 has. I would use both all the time.
The only issues I am encountering are 1.) making sure the timing on the looper is perfect and 2.) balancing the mix of the beatbox, rhythm loop, and solo volumes going through the same amp. The beatboxing tends to be too low in the mix. I can fix this with practice and the M13 as it will let you set the loop mix and eq...I am worrying about what I am playing for now and will tackle that later.
I already have a full PA and lights...I am fairly certain I will rip off Adam's use of two amps at some point and get a dedicated looper as I come across the fun money.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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barbequebob
1631 posts
May 06, 2011
7:40 AM
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Mike, you also need to start thinking about doing TRULY one man band solo with more acoustic harp playing than electric and that is much more of a real challenge and I learned a lot from doing things that way, and that's REALLY old school.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarpNinja
1424 posts
May 06, 2011
9:05 AM
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I've been practicing a mixture of acoustic/electric. One benefit is that some of the R.L. Burnside and Otis Taylor stuff translates really well and isn't technically hard to do.
This isn't underestimating the skill acquired, but when doing some of the looping, it only requires do a few little things well one time. Meaning, I don't have to beatbox a whole song, etc.
It would take many months for me to run a rig like Adam's and coordinate playing so many parts simultaneously. Looping can be, but isn't always, a bit easier...once you find the right sound/rig/and mix...which will help with my sound tech and recording skills anyways.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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