HarpNinja
1300 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:15 AM
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Ok...Since SPAH, gigging has been a sorta hit or miss thing for me as I just haven't had time to get things lined up. I started playing as a sideman in a band more for fun then anything.
The band was recording a CD and he had asked me about recording on it. He asked me to come in one time for overdubs, but it was at the 12 hour and I had grad class that afternoon and a gig that night so I couldn't make it.
Over the following weeks, I kept reminding him that I could come if if he gave me 24hrs notice, but he never did.
Then, two weeks ago, I said something again and he said that the CD was already getting mastered...so obviously I wasn't going to record with him, which was fine, but I thought it was odd he would say anything to me but then have me play at gigs still, etc....this was at the same gig where I was given a 1'x1' spot on stage. I was pretty much set to quit, but he asked me to play at the local competition to advance to the IBC, so I thought that was a good sign.
Anyways, he just sent me the playlist and mp3s for the IBC set...they feature tunes from the new album...WITH A DIFFERENT HARMONICA PLAYER!
If it weren't for the IBC thing, I might just pass on playing with them in the future. Honestly, I am bad about getting to rehearsal (I do have another band and live out of town from where they practice), but I have scored them several good paying gigs, show up on time, follow all orders, and try to be a good sideman. I also get people out to shows.
After hearing the other harp player, I did just mention in an email I was bummed it wasn't me, but that is literally all I said. I had lined up a couple of people that were willing to help promote the album as a favor to me (real promoters who do this as a job) and based on CD sales from my last album with NiteRail, I know I could have sold a good chunk of this CD just on my own. I could easily throw that out as a "your loss for not having me on it", but have chosen not to share that I had deals worked out with two promoters, etc.
This is embarrassing to me in general, and I am obviously sharing my slant, but I am genuinely interested in how some of my harp friends perceive this and what their reaction would be. I have an idea of how I'll handle this appropriately that includes holding my end of the agreement to play at the IBC event and then gracefully leaving the group. The ego in me says to stop playing with them immediately, whether that is a good idea or not.
My wife doesn't know about the other harp player, but she is already livid that I play with the group as I make less than half of what I do in my band and with gas at $3.75 she isn't crazy about me driving to rehearsals out of town on a weekly basis. Nor is she crazy about the IBC thing as she knows it will be an all day event, we won't win, I'll have to pay for gas and food, and I hate these sorts of things (I was doing it per his request of band leader).
I did act out in one fashion as I am doing a gig with them this week where a country band is coming to meet me and possibly have me over for an audition. I did do that with some ill intent.
***As a bit of an update already, I received a response saying the harp parts were recorded more than a year ago...which doesn't totally make sense with the timeline of the album. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but find it odd that this was never brought up at any point, etc. I just get the vibe they thought they wanted me in the band but really don't so instead of telling me they want me to quit. It is just a weird vibe. I literally do whatever I am told and give them 100% including coming early to set up recording gear, etc...if there is ever an issue with what I play I've asked to be told as I said several times I am there to play what he wants to hear and not just do what I want...I don't get it.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 7:21 AM
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toddlgreene
2852 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:30 AM
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Sounds like a no-brainer given the logistics and the fact they don't really have any loyalty to you...plus, you added the 'mama ain't happy' factor, and we all know that if 'mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy'.
I'd definitely throw in the towel. Or, at the very least, only make myself available for shows nearby home(if applicable).
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 7:31 AM
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Stevelegh
147 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:35 AM
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All I can say is:
$3.75 for gas!!!! Wow! Yes please!
You should try $8.45 over here!
Seriously though, I sypathise. I've been screwed by bands before and it isn't nice, but harp players are generally used and abused creatures by other musicians. I'd say just look after yourself. If the IBC thing is going to be worth your while, then do it, but if you're getting nothing out of it, cut your losses.
Personally, unless the other harp player was miles better than you, which I doubt, I'd say that would be enough for you to be justified in walking away.
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chromaticblues
758 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:41 AM
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I have been down a similiar road Mike. Just walk away. If it isn't fun or positive it will suck your creativity from you while your playing. I've played with people I didn't care to be around for money. It ain't worth it! Put your efforts into something that has a possible positive outcome. Its always a crap shoot, but if it don't feel right. It ain't right.
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KingBiscuit
32 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:41 AM
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Here's my 2 cents:
In your opening statement, you said "I started playing as a sideman in a band more for fun then anything."
As I continued to read, it sounds like the "the thrill is gone".
My opinion, just go back to setting in with them occasionally when they ask. Anything beyond that is way too mach hassle and surely outweighs any fun you might have.
Dan
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5F6H
595 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:47 AM
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Mike,
You are understandably hurt & affronted, but try to be philosophical & don't rush to burn your bridges. It sounds like you have been a dilligent sideman & team player in trying to get gigs & promotion...which for most bands & bandleaders can be a bit of a welcome surprise, but it doesn't mean you're married to them.
Perhaps if you look at the situation from your own perspctive as a band leader, you might see it from a different light. Line ups are transient, a "band" can often simply be a group of revolving door musicians centred around the bandleader, or a driven sideman director. You know that you have tangible mitigating circumstances as to why you missed the recording session, but let's face it he probably heard you say "no, but.... yada yada yada".
I know guys who have had very useful sidemen, great at promo materials, engineering recordings, you name it, but when they reach their "sell by", for whatever reason, they find themselves kicked into touch...it's not nice, it's not commendable...it's just the way it is.
It doesn't look like they want to cut you loose, if they are still offering dates.
It's great if a band is a bunch of guys who just get along well musically & socially, I know guys who have had long road careers & once they may have "had to have" so & so on this, or that instrument - now they just want to be able to share a 11 hour van journey without war breaking out. As a bandleader, just like in regular employment, you are always suspicious of a sideman/dep/employee who considers themselves indespensable...just waiting for the "you lot are nothing without me", "or you guys will do for now until the bigger better deal comes along"...cause when you hear those words, it's time to let them go. I love it best when a sideman says, "I'm cutting back on my (well paid) gigs with you, because my pal has something really promising happening and we have to rehearse a lot & gig for peanuts, so I'll do maybe the next 6 months...". No mate, you'll finish the last set tonight!
But I digress & I don't think that those examples necessarily illustrate your predicament...just trying to cast a wider perspective.
I do wonder whether your musician's ego is perhaps a little bruised, do you consider the session guy your peer? Be honest now? ;-)
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 12:26 PM
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7LimitJI
453 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:53 AM
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The seeds of doubt and miss trust are sown.
If you are anything like me, they will gnaw away at you.
I'd honour the gigs you've said you'll play, then quit.
No need to burn any bridges,so I'd try and do it amicably.
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The Pentatonics Myspace
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"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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HarpNinja
1301 posts
Apr 05, 2011
8:18 AM
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"I do wonder whether your musician's ego is perhaps a little bruised, do you consider the session guy your peer? Be honest now? ;-)"
First, thanks to you and others for the insight as I know I am being a bit of a baby about this and posted here for help in examining other perspectives. I am usually good about doing this on my own, but in this case, it has been hard for me to get beyond my own ego.
And I know you made that comment in jest, and I intentionally avoided sharing my opinion of the playing, but I didn't dig it. I will still resist the urge to share my impressions of who is "better", but the style of the harmonica does not match what the rest of the band is playing, IMO, and if often times in the wrong key. For example, playing major sounding blues licks over a minor blues-rock progression.
I've gotten the glare a couple of times a gigs for playing things that the band leader thought was the wrong thing to play. I've always then adjusted my role as requested with nothing but respect. However, I don't know how he hears the harp at all as I am by far the lowest in the mix on stage. I would argue that what I played in those instances was in tune with the band, though. In fact, one time he made a comment between sets so I took out a tuner and showed him he was wrong...politely. At the last gig he came over and said I was playing the wrong note and I wasn't even playing anything. I just nodded and said sorry.
Overall, he is a nice guy, but if he gets frustrated on stage, he takes it out on others to an extent. Nothing violent or anything, he just doesn't hesitate to point things out...and it isn't personal as he does it to everyone.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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scojo
234 posts
Apr 05, 2011
8:18 AM
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I'm with 7LimitJI. Do what you said you'd do, then move on amicably. It doesn't sound the least bit fun anymore. And no, you are not being a "baby". I think you are going the extra mile to be professional about the whole thing.
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 8:32 AM
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bonedog569
303 posts
Apr 05, 2011
8:51 AM
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First off - cudos for sharing this bit of 'drama'. We macho old 'bluesmen' don't always admit to being affected but such nonesense - but in fact we sometimes are.
"I started playing as a sideman in a band more for fun then anything."
This attitude seems pretty casual on your part . I don't sense an huge commitment on either side. If you can get back to that casual frame of mind about it - then play with them when it's mutually convenient.
Dont think of them, or refer to them as 'my band' - but as 'a band I sit in with'
Recording projects can start and stop and finish up months or years after first tracks where laid down. I don't know what happened in this instance of course - but it is certainly possible that your guy is telling you the truth.
On the other hand - if there is really no love -no fun , and not much money - then why bother?
Dr. dog
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5F6H
597 posts
Apr 05, 2011
8:57 AM
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Sounds like the bandleader is a bit insecure (by "bit" I mean significantly), good to see that you aren't taking it to heart.
I don't really think it's possible to be too nice...unless perhaps it's in the context of being "too nice" to a sheep...but Mike...you're too nice (not to sheep I hasten to add, but to the bandleader).
You're not being a baby, you're being the stronger party, but it's obviously taking its toll & it sounds like the honeymoon is well on it's way to being over, I'd give it another once around, see if you still feel the same & maybe bow out gracefully leaving the door open for the odd dep gig that suits you.
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pistolero
119 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:09 AM
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Kick em in the nuts and set em on fire!
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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waltertore
1257 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:20 AM
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sounds like this band is a waste of time/money and a done deal(sumarizing what you have shared). If you stay in this business long enough you will piss off people inadvertantly. Such is the game of the dysfunctional music world and if you stay in this business long enough you may understand why I am now a 1 man band instead of fronting a trio :-) No more band dramas.......... Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
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Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 9:22 AM
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Train-train
33 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:28 AM
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I have to agree with much of 5F6H's first post. Feelings and loyalties are not part of the recording process. IF the offer was there for you to record with them, They honored and valued your worth. IF you could not make the session, The band has got to do what ever they got to do. In most cases, to record a CD involves a lot of planning, time, rehearsals, money and schedules that is dictated by the recording studio date. If the band had offered for you to record with them, even on such short notice, means that they think quite highly of what you added. You really can not fault them for doing what they had to do. Given that they want you to be with them for the IBC and other significant gigs means that they still value your contribution.
Just an opinion from one who has seen studio recording make and break bands. A CD is a stamp of time and is a history of that band. I do not see that the band has let you down in any way. I think it is quite the honor to have been invited. It must have been a harsh decision to not take their offer.
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HarpNinja
1302 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:36 AM
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Regarding the CD he has own home set up I would have recorded at (so not a time/money thing).
As the day continues, it sounds like a keyboard player is playing with them at the IBC event. Going down the track list, there are five tunes. Three have harmonica...it adds up to a one verse solo and a few fills. Not fills through a song, but 1-3 riffs throughout the whole tune.
So really, I'll be on stage for 25 minutes and only playing for about 1minute. There are some back up vocals, but again, mostly just doubling a lyric here and there spread out through the tunes. In all, I am guessing I'd be signing or playing for about 2 minutes total. I was also specifically asked to not play any rhythm harmonica as it isn't necessary as the keys will play rhythm.
I very professionally questioned whether or not I was an asset for that event and if I might do more harm than good standing around for the majority of the time. Honestly, I'd like to play with them this weekend in order to meet members of a country band I could maybe play a bit with. Otherwise, I think it is a good time to step away from this.
If it wasn't so impossible to find gigs around here it would be a no-brainer.
***My rock group does well and is still a blast. I'd just do that all the time, but my booking resources are limited until summer. This was a good band to fill the rest of my gig time with, but I am taking it as a sign to push forward with my own group.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2011 9:38 AM
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MJ
282 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:38 AM
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I usually try to leave my ego on the edge of the stage and pick it up on the way out. If you feel secure about who you are and your abilities, then when other s take your place for short periods, it is no big deal.
I remember you saying in another thread that lately you only want to play low keys. Well that is a bit of trying to call the shots rather than going along with what may be planned. I am not saying this as a criticism but to point out that everything is not one sided. There are two sides to every coin and sometimes the coin stands on end.
However, if it were me feeling the way you do about things, I would probably gracefully leave the group. How you leave the group will be noticed by others. Be true to yourself and you will never regret it.
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harmonicanick
1152 posts
Apr 05, 2011
10:23 AM
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If he got another harp player like that, he is taking the piss! so don't give it another thought walk now, and use your time with some people who make YOU feel positive about your harp playing.
It's his loss.
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Jim Rumbaugh
465 posts
Apr 05, 2011
10:24 AM
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Be professional
If you are being payed a proffesional wage, do what you're told, and at the end of the evening say "thank you, I hope we can play together again"
From your description, there has been no special considerations given to you. Therefore, you owe them nothing more than your time that you are paid for.
If you are not enjoying it, then get paid for it or go somewhere else.
I agree with most of what has said already.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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Fingers
22 posts
Apr 05, 2011
11:46 AM
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Go with your gut!!
keep yourself happy!!
keep your wife happy!!
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Tuckster
826 posts
Apr 05, 2011
12:04 PM
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Not much money and you're not having any fun? Fulfill what commitments you have with them and then end it. Do it with no animosity, just a business decision.
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mercedesrules
95 posts
Apr 05, 2011
12:56 PM
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.....You could tell them what you would have to earn to be on call 24/7 and see if they are serious.
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eharp
1268 posts
Apr 05, 2011
2:25 PM
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if you are telling us this and not the band.....
i wouldnt even do the IBC unless it is for exposure.
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mandowhacker
38 posts
Apr 05, 2011
4:15 PM
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It seems to me that you already have the answer:
"I have an idea of how I'll handle this appropriately that includes holding my end of the agreement to play at the IBC event and then gracefully leaving the group."
Are you just looking for reassurance??
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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Rubes
272 posts
Apr 05, 2011
5:03 PM
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...stay cool, the coolest guys just keep on...stayin cool......:~)
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MrVerylongusername
1655 posts
Apr 05, 2011
5:39 PM
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I have no idea about you, your band and the circumstances, but something has clearly ruffled the other guys' feathers. You did say you'd struggled to get to some rehearsals and I'm just trying to look at it from the band's points of view.
In my band there is a constant source of tension when individuals fail to attend rehearsals: it's usually the horn players who have an expectation that they can turn up on the night, play from their scores and take the same cut as the guys who've turned out for all the rehearsals. It's also frustrating to try to rehearse with players missing.
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Jehosaphat
35 posts
Apr 05, 2011
6:20 PM
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To paraphrase someone.."I get on stage for fun the pay is for all the rehearsing"
Having said that I used to enjoy the rehearsals ,we had to do it so we made sure it was enjoyable as we could.
A few beers and some laughs with the guys and a nights break from the wife and kids routine,whats not too like.
My experience is if you are just Saturday night warriors a 'good' guy who can play makes for a much better experience all round than a 'genius ' who is an asshole.
If its not fun and your not a professional why do it?
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Mojokane
354 posts
Apr 05, 2011
11:13 PM
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Hey Mike.
..let me weigh in on this one..
It's a 'silver lining' situation as long as you keep your chin up...eh?
Clearly, right now anyway..your relationship with that group has 'soured'.
Spend time with the ole lady.
Be patient until your next move.
Let the hEALIN bEGIN!!
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Rubes
274 posts
Apr 06, 2011
3:19 AM
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something sacred perhaps... :~)
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captainbliss
514 posts
Apr 06, 2011
4:15 AM
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@HarpNinja:
On a practical note: are you gonna do Stonehenge at the IBC?
xxx
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apskarp
441 posts
Apr 06, 2011
5:18 AM
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I usually try to be honest with people of how I feel about things. Of course if the relationship is distant and only professional then I would use a fact based approach. Simple pros, cons, opportunities, threats.
You haven't really listed pros or opportunities within this email thread. If they are non-existing, what would be the threats & cons of leaving the group politely? (Sorry, not enough time for this one...)
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
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Diggsblues
738 posts
Apr 06, 2011
6:13 AM
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If you said you would do the IBC that's
a gig and your reputation as a player
that's dependable is what you don't want
to ruin.
A friend of mine never turned down a gig.
If he didn't want to play them he just
gave them a really high price for his
services. He was the guitar player on
the Donnie and Marie show.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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HarpNinja
1305 posts
Apr 06, 2011
6:48 AM
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@captainbliss I was hoping we'd do Big Bottom and I'd get to play bass harp, but no luck.
I was pretty upfront about the rehearsal thing in person and in initial emails. However, I am in total agreement that they are a must to do the IBC thing, which I am not crazy about in general, but it is what it is.
I did send an email about my value at that event thinking it sounded like he didn't want me to be a part of it, but his response was that he really wanted me there.
There are just a lot of conflicting signals and when I try to dig a little deeper it doesn't get very far. I like when this aspect of my life isn't so complicated, lol.
I will talk directly with the band leader this week regarding everything. The more I reflect on this whole situation, it comes down to how lazy I want. Do I want to put in the effort to make this a great experience or do I want to no put in any effort? Would that effort be better served elsewhere? I am not sure.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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Joe_L
1188 posts
Apr 06, 2011
8:59 AM
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It's only as complicated as you want it to be. If you don't like playing with them, don't. If you like it, continue to play.
Worst case: you stay, they make it to the IBC and you get to go to Memphis.
A friend of mine went to Memphis this past year and had a blast. He met a lot of interesting people. He considered it an opportunity of a lifetime.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Lightnin' Harp
9 posts
Apr 07, 2011
2:41 AM
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I agree with Chromaticblues, life's to short to put with this rubbish.
Think of all those guys you could be playing with if you weren't wasting your time with that lot.
Your lady is probably more upset by the way you're being treated than the cost of the petrol.
Start afresh, you already have another band to work with. Scrape these blokes off & enjoy yourself!
LH.
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HarpNinja
1307 posts
Apr 07, 2011
7:42 AM
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In a POSSIBLE twist of faith...my band has been slow due to my inability to contact clubs for bookings. It is 75% related to not having phone access during the day and 25% my lack of connections.
At any rate, I may have scored an excellent booker (I've been trying for three years to work with the company but long story short one of the owners is close friends with my guitar player) who happens to love the format of our band. I'll know in the next couple of weeks if it will work out and if it does, playing in multiple bands will be impossible.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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