harmonicanick
1141 posts
Mar 30, 2011
3:38 PM
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I ask this question because,I am a jammer/improviser and am quite happy/confident to do a 2 hour gig (WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE) and wing it.
Friends of mine on the harmonica practise their band seriously for hours to get the changes right and the notes spot-on.
I find the above clinical and sometimes devoid of soul, though brilliantly executed.
of course there is room for all and let live music live!!
What do you guys think?
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toddlgreene
2828 posts
Mar 30, 2011
4:35 PM
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I've been a member of both types-I too can just 'wing it' on the fly. If you're with others who are talented/skilled and intuitive enough on their own instruments, it's a lot of fun! i really prefer that over formulaic, juke-boxesque band settings. The happy medium for me is following the structure of a known song with the freedom to take off on a jam if the mood strikes or someone calls it out, and everyone naturally flows with it.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
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bluemoose
509 posts
Mar 30, 2011
4:35 PM
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My goal is recognizable, close to note-for-note intros/heads/hooks and then improvised solos with references to the head or theme.
Reality on the other hand...is not quite there. :(
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2011 4:36 PM
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waltertore
1242 posts
Mar 30, 2011
6:33 PM
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I have done both through my career and it is up to the individual to go with what turns them on the most. I will add that peoples definition of spontaneous music varies widely. I have had numerous people tell me they do what I do and when I listen to their music it is usually nothing like what I consider spontaneous playing. Personally, doing a rehearsed thing is of no interest to me anymore. Going into each performance with no idea of what words or music will come out of me takes me to a dimension that rehearsed music never did. I am a full fledged junkie to spontobeat and like any junkie I will do anything to keep my habbit satified. This has included turning down many big time music offers that were based in rehearsed:-) A true junkie I am! Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2011 6:37 PM
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markdc70
63 posts
Mar 30, 2011
7:28 PM
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I've been attracted to long, jammy, improvised songs long before I even knew that you could improvise in a song! There is certainly something to be said for a spot-on cover of a song that the original band probably labored over for hours/days in the studio to get right. That being said, I often find myself frustrated with the guys at jams needing to follow solid song structures. Maybe its the Deadhead in me, but when there's a groove happening, I think its a shame to stop it prematurely.
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7LimitJI
443 posts
Mar 30, 2011
8:25 PM
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Jamming in a well rehearsed band.
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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gene
712 posts
Mar 30, 2011
8:56 PM
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Neither is better. They both have their place. Isn't there satisfaction in creating something new on the spot? Isn't there also satisfaction in recreating a good piece of familiar music?
What does the audience like? Usually familiar stuff, but they can also be blown away by good improv.
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Baker
114 posts
Mar 31, 2011
5:48 AM
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I sit somewhere in the middle. The bands I play in both write original music, neither of them are blues bands.
I can improvise happily with them on songs I don't yet know, however personally I really enjoy the process, and having the time/space to refine these improvisations into solid riffs and heads etc. If a solo is required I generally have a structure in my head that I will improvise around, I rarely play the same solo twice. The guys I play with are experienced enough to be flexible, to leave some extra space for improvisation if it feels right or not if the groove requires it.
I also really enjoy playing at the blues jam nights and will generally improvise on most songs there.
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hvyj
1342 posts
Mar 31, 2011
6:25 AM
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This is an interesting topic. The other 3 musicians in my blues band are all full time professionals who also play with other bands. Two of them have degrees in music and also teach. So they almost never have time to rehearse. But they can play their asses off and all of us have an excellent "feel" and sense of anticipation as well as a compatible stylistic concept.
Bar owners and audience members keep telling us how tight we are and ask us how long we've been playing together. some club owners have remarked that it's nice to have a tight well rehearsed band that's not just jamming which we find amusing since we never actually play the same tune the same way twice.
I've had to ask the guitar player or the bass player for specific notes on certain heads or particular parts of tunes to be able to play those identifiable parts or "hooks" accurately and the bass player and guitar player will have occasional discussions to work parts out here and there. There have also been some discussions about arrangements--when the harp will lay out and who will play certain parts on certain tunes. But for the overwhelming most part, everything is very spontaneous and improvised.
I consider myself very fortunate to be able to play with such talented musicians, and I'm not suggesting that the approach we use will work in all contexts. But i think it is important that we don't play ANY tunes "just like the record." We put everything in our own style and the audiences seem to really like that. It's also important that the drummer and bass player have impeccable time and an incredible sense of groove--and with a groove that good, the rest of us can play almost anything and sound great.
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waltertore
1244 posts
Mar 31, 2011
6:53 AM
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I have a few questions for jam/improv guys. I am leaning towards spontobeat is different than both not only in approach but also in basic song structure. I tend to change tempos as the song moves along and change chords as they hit me. I have had no luck with the jam band scene. They tend to do scripted songs and allow a lot of time for long solos and I am viewed as a bit bent but not really jamming. I also have had no success with the improv scene. They tend to play high brain complicated stuff and I have been viewed as too simple a player to merit their respect. So here are my questions:
1. Do you have a preconcived set list of songs your band does?
2. Do you have preconcived limits on solo time within a song?
3. Do you have preconcived limits on song lenght
4. Do you repeat songs night to night?
5. Do you do requests?
6. Do you have set times for your sets?
7. Do you plan what keys things will be in before you do a gig?
8. Do you conciously try to fit a room if it means going against your gut?
9. Do you discuss what tones each instrument will have, volume levels, stage set up?
10. do you conciously mix up tempos of songs so as not to play too many of the same beat?
11. do you make up your words for each song you play?
I ask these questions because what I do, and consider spontaneous music, has none of these things in place whether I am doing my one man band or with a real band. I start with a blank slate everytime I play an instrument in public or private. I am still searching for others that do what I do. It would be nice to meet them and not feel so isolated. These questions came to me from this thread and a cd that was sent to me of a gig I did with Lightning hopkins at TRamps in NYC. It was bootlegged off the soundboard. What hit me was Lightning did nothing I am asking except he repeated songs. Walter
PS: FYI most internet people know me as a 1 man band but for 30 years I did this with a real drummer and bassist.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2011 7:10 AM
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Rubes
264 posts
Mar 31, 2011
7:12 AM
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Hmmmm yeh good question...Late night post improv jam brain says.....it's all good but new fresh innovation wins hands down! Even though I respect good takes on other people's music, there's nothing quite like a forward projection into the unknown uncharted waters of FUTURE music! Jams are good for that with the right people but striving to capture those ideas and sounds of good dynamics is a rewarding thing I must say......
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joeleebush
228 posts
Mar 31, 2011
7:38 AM
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"The degree of someone's "open mindedness" will be in direct proportion to how much they agree or disagree with the issue being discussed"...William F. Buckley
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Littoral
277 posts
Mar 31, 2011
9:03 AM
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Some of the finest blues players I've worked with refuse to rehearse. It helps if we're doing covers that everyone has the "same" reference/arrangement for a tune.
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scojo
232 posts
Mar 31, 2011
9:21 AM
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Without well-rehearsed bands we would never have had the brilliant songs of Jimi Hendrix, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, and countless other artists.
Without the ability to jam, we would not really like the way the songs of these same artists sounded.
Both are important. I will say this, though... just jamming with no set goal or frame of reference can be a lot of fun, but it takes an excellent musician (or group of musicians) to pull it off in a manner that is interesting to the audience and is not just "wanking".
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Baker
115 posts
Mar 31, 2011
9:23 AM
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@scojo – Definitely Agree!
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boris_plotnikov
495 posts
Mar 31, 2011
11:28 AM
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My choice is rehearsed beats and structure (including intro, ending, tutties), some melodic themes, while improvised solos.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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bonedog569
297 posts
Mar 31, 2011
11:51 AM
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My choice is a loose structure with lots of jamming. To me - improvisation is where the magic is. The live, realtime musical converstiion. The goal is spiritual / emotional / rythmic / sexual transformation. Discovery.
The difference between self indulgence and trancendent musical experience can be a thin line though - and subject to the ear of the beholder - or player. Like prayer, it has something to do with faith - bleief in the music ans the process.
If we can hit the bridge and ending together - we are happy.
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