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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Pre-occupution with gear and O/B 's
Pre-occupution with gear and O/B 's
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harmonicanick
1117 posts
Mar 11, 2011
2:57 PM
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IMHO the forum is becoming top heavy with gear freaks and Over/under whatever frickin blows!!:)
A life time of playing has taught me, and I'm still learnin', that to play with people and enhance their playing is my personal goal and though I have 'the gear' tomorrow night I will be accompanying a great blues artist through the pa., But I would be happier with no amp at all, all the effects and extra interest can be made with your playing.
Please discuss...
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hvyj
1301 posts
Mar 11, 2011
3:24 PM
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Amen. I don't know how to OB and I'm perfectly content playing through the PA. But playing through my own amp is okay, too. I think I get a "heavier" tone through an amp and sometimes I think I'm in better balance with the guitar player if i use an amp. But I can get very acceptable tone through the PA, so I pretty much don't care what I play through. I prefer using my own mic though (but i don't use a bullet mic).
I get amused by harp players who have to set up more gear than i have furniture in my living room in order to be able to get what they consider to be good tone.
On the other hand, when i do use an amp and pedal board i am particular about my gear. But so far as i am concerned, the most important piece of equipment is a good mic. Let me use my own mic and I'll get decent tone through anything--my amps, your amps, the PA, or whatever. If I've got a good mic, i can do the rest with with breath technique and mic handling technique. Btw, i consider myself to be an electric player--I always perform with a cupped mic and never play "in air."
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 4:05 PM
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MrVerylongusername
1605 posts
Mar 11, 2011
3:36 PM
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I remember a few years ago posting on another forum about "going naked" and how liberating it was. Fortunately for the audience, that nakedness was metaphoric, not a call for nudism.
I spent the best part of a year gigging without amp, mics or pedals. Just the SM58 vocal mic, uncupped. Just acoustic tone.
I didn't sell anything, I still have too many amps and far more pedals than I use or even need, but 'going naked' did break my dependance on gear. I never take an amp to rehearsals and at gigs I turn up with whatever is practical (considering the load-in times/arrangements, the stage, the transport, the calibre of the soundman etc...). Frankly sometimes it's just about how I'm feeling.
I do still have GAS, I still like experimenting with new sounds from pedals. I like the sound of a good tube amp, but the lengths and prices that some folks will go to intrigues me.
As for harps - I know I will always be uncomfortable spending more than £30 for one. Much though I'd love a crossover or a Manji, £60 or more for a single harp is ridiculous. Customs? not for me.
Overblows are fun though ;-)
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sammyharp
93 posts
Mar 11, 2011
3:46 PM
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OK, here's my opinion:
overblows (like bends) are just other notes. Amps are just another way to make a sound. Some people like to spend more time on the gear, some people like to spend more time on the playing. It's all personal choice. If you don't like the gear talk and OB threads and stuff, just don't read 'em! They'll annoy you less that way. This is a forum for everyone, gear freaks and overblowers included.
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didjcripey
44 posts
Mar 11, 2011
4:40 PM
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Gear can be for some an interesting hobby associated with playing the harp. I like to play acoustically as well as amplified, but I really enjoy collecting, building and playing with mics and amps. Sure, its really what you play and how you play it that counts, and we all know that no amount of gear will make up for not having the chops, but gear is part of the whole package and for me makes playing harp even more interesting and fun.
Overblows; I admire and respect people who can use them well, but have too many other areas in my playing to develop before I seriously work on them. I figure if some of the greats like Big and Little Walter managed without them, then I probably can too (for now).
Gear and technique are obvious and appropriate subjects for discussion in a harp forum.
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Lucky Lester
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strawwoodclaw
218 posts
Mar 11, 2011
4:43 PM
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well said didjcripey
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ZackPomerleau
1375 posts
Mar 11, 2011
5:42 PM
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I've heard plenty of people trying to figure out how to bend, no different from overblowing. So, you need to spread your complaints out that way, too.
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HarpNinja
1198 posts
Mar 11, 2011
6:53 PM
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OB'ing is often used in passing to generalize the quality of a harmonica...the technique and how it sounds on a harp it a good way to evaluate the reeds, etc....and it is a MODERN technique on a MODERN harmonica board...I see other types of bending discussed here as well, so it makes sense to see it brought up.
Gear...well...I think most of us post while not playing harmonica and it is easier to type about. Gear can be a bit more concrete to some than other topics too. However, I think it most often is posted because of the economics and availability. It is VERY difficult for most people to find the gear to try. It is expensive to buy compared to harmonicas. No one wants to buy an amp for several hundred dollars to find out it is a rip off.
I can cheaply experiment with harmonicas in comparison. I can also find a slew of resources to help me play better. I cannot so easily access gear to hear demoed, etc.
Most threads are started as questions, so it makes total sense to me that of all things, harmonica playing would be the least typed about.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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boris_plotnikov
480 posts
Mar 11, 2011
8:54 PM
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hvyj
I always think that electric harp + acoustic guitar is really cool, while acoustic harp + electric guitar (especially with break-up) rare sounds really good (only as a contrast), harmonica sounds naked this way for my taste.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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hvyj
1305 posts
Mar 12, 2011
12:00 AM
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Boris,
I agree. The amplification smooths the difference in tonal quality of bent and unbent notes. Personally, i consider my mic an extension of my instrument and mic handling technique as important to the overall sound as breath technique. Most acoustic guitars, these days have pickups in them and can be plugged in so acoustic guitar and electric harp with a cupped mic work just fine. i never perform playing harp acoustically or "in air."
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Mojokane
312 posts
Mar 12, 2011
12:10 AM
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I totally can relate. Only recently have I had some difficulty with my gear breakin down before I even get up. Last week, I decided to just go through the PA. ..trimmed the highs and all that other stuff, and it sounded just fine. Almost as good or better in some cases. I still love my tube amps and custom mics. But I now have reason to celebrate. I can achieve good tone without all of the bells and whistles...and the idea of bringing your own mic is cool I have a slim x, 585, and another one I can't remember what it was lying around somewhere. I'll drag that over to the gig next week and give it a whirl.It might not sound much better than the SM58 I used last week. We'll see.
ANyone ever try a slim X or 585 through a PA?
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Mar 12, 2011 12:18 AM
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harpdude61
773 posts
Mar 12, 2011
4:57 AM
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I love playing thru my Double Trouble with my Ultimate 57. I'm not in a band, but a few invite me to sit in. If I know I'll be up for a whole set I bring my rig, but most of the time it will be just two or three songs so it is more practical to bring the 57 and go thru the P.A. Getting to play out is a thrill for me, so I take whatever I get.
I'm with sammyharp...overbends are just another note. I'm finding them more useful as I travel this long journey of learning to play them well.
Posters on this forum say that if you don't tongue block you are missing out on some great stuff to add to your playing. Rather than be stubborn and keep defending the pursing style, I am devoting a pretty good chunk of my practice time to learning tongue blocking.....Guess what, if you do not overbend you are missing out on some great stuff to add to your playing. Rather than be stubborn and keep defending the non-overbend style, try to devote a little time to learning it. Why not?
It would be a joke to say you cannot play great stuff without overbends...you can also play great stuff without TBing or doing splits, or double stops, or using other positions. I will give every technique I learn about a fair chance. WHy not?
My offer still stands for Hill Country (and I hope Adam does not mind)....bring an old harp that you can remove the coverplates on and I will help you gap the 6 hole and show you the overblow technique that works for me anyway.
To the OP..times are changing...I think the forum gets top heavy with OT stuff myself.
Last Edited by on Mar 12, 2011 4:59 AM
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kudzurunner
2376 posts
Mar 12, 2011
6:51 AM
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@harpdude: I don't mind. Overblowing for the masses is what I say.
As usual, I see this as an A+B issue, rather than an A versus B issue.
Gear makes a difference. When you've got the wrong gear, or badly-adjusted gear, things don't sound quite as good. Yesterday, getting ready for my tour, I was playing in the livingroom through my default amp setup: Premier Twin-8 and Kay 703. And the Premier just didn't sound as good as it has in the past. I played for half an hour. Then I realized that I'd plugged into the "microphone" jack rather than the uppermost of the two "guitar" jacks, which was the one I usually plug into. I switched things around. Bingo! Kick-ass sound. It inspired me. I played another half hour and felt much more musical.
Small things like that make a big difference. This is a forum where we talk about stuff like that.
But one's tone APART from amplification is also important. It's good to be able to adapt to circumstances on the ground. Think of yourself as a warrior about to go into war. Sure, you want the best possible sword, honed to the sharpest edge and balanced optimally for your hand. By the same token, the fog of war is worth planning for. You'd damn sure be good at picking up ANY sword and swinging it to kill. If you're a prissy complainer who can ONLY play a good show if you're plugged into the right jack on one specific amp, you're not a warrior: not a pro, we might say. You've got to be able to adapt. That's part of the discipline of blues harmonica.
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Greg Heumann
1069 posts
Mar 12, 2011
7:22 AM
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Well said, Adam!
Let us agree that the "cupped mic and tube amp" amplified sound, AKA the "chicago blues" sound - is DIFFERENT than the sound of an SM58, uncupped, through the PA. Some of us WANT to sound one way, some of us WANT to be able to sound different depending on the song, the mood, the style, etc. Nothing wrong with any of it.
Nothing wrong with OB's either. Wish I could use them like I use ANY tool with which I am fully proficient - thinking only about the goal and not the tool.
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/Greg
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rbeetsme
388 posts
Mar 12, 2011
8:06 AM
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I like your take on it Adam. Yes, the endless debate about which amp, mic, pedal or whatever is really just a matter of taste, but when it sounds wrong, it's wrong! I have an opinion on which amps work best for harp, but it is an opinion. However, I think we have all been somewhere where a player just sounds bad, and turning up a harsh amp and adding way too much reverb or pedals doesn't make it sound any better.
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5F6H
552 posts
Mar 12, 2011
8:50 AM
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Harmonicanick, PAs are "gear". If you're happy to play through a different PA every time you go to a new venue, then fine...that puts you in the same boat as touring musicians who aren't always in a position to travel with their preferred gear (be it amps, or PAs). Unless you are going to play small, unamplified rooms, you need "gear", it's unavoidable, like it or not. Most folks would like gear that they are familiar with & works for them. As such "gear" is primarly aimed at other instruments than harp, it is very useful to have forums like this where folks can share ideas, experience & opinions. The box shifting monkey in your local music store, with a passion for shred metal, isn't going to be able to give you any useful advice.
overblow if you want...if you don't want, then don't. A bit like thread topics that don't interest you...just skip 'em.
Last Edited by on Mar 12, 2011 8:52 AM
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Tuckster
823 posts
Mar 12, 2011
12:15 PM
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I've been playing for 18 yrs. now.This is a very fast changing age. When I started there was very little info available on anything harp related. I would have KILLED to get some of the amp and techniques info I've got on this forum. I think we all go through a gear phase. Maybe I wouldn't have made all the amp buying mistakes I've made. I always play through the P.A. at jams. There's no way I'm lugging an amp for half a dozen tunes,at best. As for OB's, I wouldn't have ever known about them without the internet. I can do them on a well set up harp but I can't incorporate them into my playing. As someone here has said,I've spent a lot of time learning to avoid those notes that I didn't know I had.:>) Without this information explosion,I can only imagine where my playing would have progressed.
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Fingers
4 posts
Mar 12, 2011
12:17 PM
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I played for 7 years through a standard green bullet plugged directly into a Fender blues deville!! this band got loud on occasion but this set up held its own well,and had a sound that would make your toes curl! i did on occasion use over-blows and octaves but would not consider myself "expert" part of why i joined this forum is to further my education and i have seen some great things on hare so thanks!!
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