Hello guys, I wanted to make you a question. I'm looking for pedal that would let me play straight to the PA. While I know that Lone Wolf Pedals are great, they are for me at this moment too expensive.
I'm interested in the Behringer "carbon" copy of the sans amp. They are the Behring GDI 21 (Sansamp GT2)
I'm thinking, because when we play harp we want to get a sound with more bottom end, more bass and less trebble, mayabe the bass pedal will let me achieve a "warmer" sound. Bu maybe I'm wrong.
I'm looking for an overdriven sound not to harsh to the ears. Kind of chicago (but not exactly). I know there are no replacements for a real tube amp. But at this moment it's what I got.
If any of you has any experience with this particular models (or with the originals Sans Amp) please let me know so I can make a right decision.
Thanks very much
---------- With some latin flavour for you, chico!! :P
Behringer are very strange products. Noone can say that it's complete sh*t, but most soundmen hate Behringer. Try LoneWolf Harpbreak or HarpAttack, I think in any case it'll be better to play to PA ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
I have the GDI 21, it's a helluva lot lighter than lugging my bassman around to gigs!
For the price I'd say it's a good piece of kit. Not the most robust construction, but what do you expect for less than £30?
In terms of sounds, most of the settings are too bright and driven for harp, but the clean, tweed setting is useable. No onboard effects, but most PAs should have reverb and/or delay on the board or in the outboard rack. Most active DIs can draw their power needs from phantom powering. That feature would have been nice. a 9V brick will get you through a couple of gigs though and it has DC input.
For the price of a basic DI pedal, what do you have to lose? (it still works as a DI even if you turn of the amp sim)
That's exactly what I think MR V. If I can't get a "decent" sound from it, well at least I can use it as a DI BOX, so no loss. The things that you say make me wonder. I probably will go for the Bass pedal since I think it will be a little more harp friendly and not so "crazy-makes-you-ears-bleed" over distorted sound.
If I buy it, I will put a review in here for other people to know.
One day I'll get a cool tube amp and I'll be happy with it, but until that day comes I want a decent portable little rig that would let me move around without much hazzle.
I don't play live very often so I don't need a very proffesional setup, and... For the price of a Lone Wolf harp pedal I would prefer to expend some more and get myself a tube amp. ------------------------
Thanks very much for your intake Boris! I know those pedals are disgned with harp in mind but at least for now, I will let them go.
---------- With some latin flavour for you, chico!! :P
I used the digital delay and the blues driver for a long time with out issues.They were easy to carry to open mic's and run thru the board. For $30 US you can't beat them.If you need more bottom end just have the sound man give you more Bass from the board and roll off the high's. Mike
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 9:34 AM
You know, for quite a few years I used to play mostly through the PA board. And occasionally i still do.
Most PA boards have very sophisticated EQ. You really don't need pedals or a multieffects unit to get a good basic harp sound if you are playing into the PA.
You want more bottom? Boost the bass tone control and roll off the treble tone control--but be careful since too much bass will make your tone muddy. Now, the conventional wisdom of turning up the bass can be overdone--leaving the bass control at 12'oclock (or maybe 1 o'clock) usually provides plenty of bass. The real action to fatten tone for harp is with the midrange control.
Want fatter tone? Pump the midrange tone control and roll off the treble tone control. Harp gets fat at 240 hz which is the low mids.
Want a little grit or Chicago style overdrive? Boost the gain or pad control a little in relation to the volume control. You may need to compensate by turning the volume down a little when you do this to avoid feeding back, but you can get a very nice edgy overdriven tone this way--especially if you also pump the midrange and roll off some treble.
Using a pedal board or a multieffects unit to get good basic tone going into a PA board is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The controls on the board can give you a great basic harp tone if you know how to set them. You do need to use a decent harp friendly mic, though. (Personally, i don't use bullet mics.)
If you want reverb and/or delay, most modern boards have them (or one of them). If you want exotic effects like rotary sound, phasing, flanging or octave dividing, you'll need a pedal board or a multieffects unit for that--BUT NOT FOR A GOOD BASIC HARP TONE since you have enough controls on the PA board itself to give you a decent sound without using any outboard gizmos.
the more equipment you use, the more problems you have. A simpler set up is always better.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 3:12 PM
hvyj: thanks for your long and detailed answer. You are right, but sadly in my country soundmen are not very punctual, so for instance in my last show I wanted to play trough a Pocket Pod but we had no time for further equalization so I had to let everything on the Soundman hands and go straight to the the PA.
The results while not discouraing are not the sound I would like, too flat and trebbly (and I get lost in the mix). Here is a video...
However f I have more time for talking to the soundman I will follow your instruction, thanks a lot.
I will keep with this phrase: "the more equipment you use, the more problems you have."
pd: I'm not fond of Bullet mics either.
---------- With some latin flavour for you, chico!! :P
If you think you have problems getting the sound tech to give you a good mix when you plug your mic straight into the board, the problem will be even worse if you have to get him to EQ a multieffects unit.
Here's what i tell sound guys: "Pump the mids, roll off some treble and give me more than a little reverb." I also tell them I need to be able to hear myself in the monitor when the band starts rocking.
Now, if i wanted a Chicago style tone (which i usually don't) i would tell the sound guy: "I want a hot signal, so crank the gain up a little in relation to the volume to give me some grit." This may require a little bit of a sound check or trial and error to get it right. But some sound guys tend to set up the harp channel this way on their own and i have to tell them I prefer a cleaner tone.
Now, a mic with an integral volume control is useful. When the sound guy sets levels, he'll ask for your max volume. Lie. Tell him you are at max but have your VC at 85-90% of wide open. That way, if the band starts rocking really hard you can turn yourself up to get more cut during the performance if you really need it.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 3:11 PM
There are very few modern desks whose preamps distort in a musical way. Sure you can get it to distort, but it will sound like like a 70s transistor amp. Channel strip preamps just aren't designed to clip like a valve circuit. That's why a tube sim is IMHO a better option if you want a driven tone. If there's no other option then fine, it's a passable compromise, but I'll also add a warning. Make sure you or the soundguy know what you're doing and by boosting the gain you are not overloading the whole master output.. Nothing destroys drivers and power amps quicker than a clipping desk with a f***ed up gain structure.
>>In terms of sounds, most of the settings are too bright and driven for harp, but the clean, tweed setting is useable. No onboard effects, but most PAs should have reverb and/or delay on the board or in the outboard rack. Most active DIs can draw their power needs from phantom powering. That feature would have been nice. a 9V brick will get you through a couple of gigs though and it has DC input.<< I agree. The Behringer GD121 on the tweed setting can work quite well and sound very good straight into a PA. Pair that with a Danelectro Fab Echo and you're set.
