Noodles
183 posts
Jul 31, 2012
10:54 AM
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How is it that man is intelligent enough to travel through the vastness of deep space, but we can't seem to come to a consensus on how harmonica tabs are written?
Take the 2-hole draw, for example.
Is it 2D or 2 or 2(with arrow pointing down)
How about a 6 overblow
6Bo, 6O, +6O, 6o, +6o, 6^, damn!
Then there's all the bends.
" ' "' * ** ***
We need something that's written in a consistent manner, can be inputted on a keyboard, can be read quickly as we play and uses the least amount of characters so we can pick out the changes of breath direction at a glance to easily sort out the trills and glisses.
We have to do better.
.
.
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2012 10:59 AM
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smwoerner
90 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:21 AM
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Root/Tonic, 3rd, 5th, sharp 6th/flat 7th, etc...works for any key, any position and most any instrument...
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mr_so&so
586 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:33 AM
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I like the tab syntax the timeistight has used in the more pentatonic scales thread. It it keeps the number of characters used to a minimum, you know that the first character indicates the blow or draw (+ or nothing) and the last characters indicate the type of bend (if any). I'm coming around to using "o" for overbend.
Tab has its uses for learners of an instrument. Once you know where all the notes are on the harmonica then you can just think in scale degrees or read music. But I think you will all admit that getting to that point is difficult.
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Pistolcat
239 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:38 AM
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I agree with smwoerner, scale degrees is by far the simplest way for me to learn tunes... You can pick position yourself, too.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Noodles
184 posts
Jul 31, 2012
12:06 PM
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I’m trying to understand. So, you would prefer tabs for all harmonica melodies to read like this:
Tonic 7b 5th 5b 4th 3b Root
Instead of this: 8D 7B 6D 6D* 6B 5D 4D
Or this: 8 7 6 6* +6 5 4
Is this what you mean?
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nacoran
6022 posts
Jul 31, 2012
1:25 PM
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Years in school bands and choirs exposed me to a lot of sheet music. It's got a much better, more complete notation system. There is a particular oddball form, called 'movable do' that has fallen out of mainstream use that would be really useful, I think, for harmonica players. The 'Do' (the root, the I) is always on the same line. It was typically used with choral music where you weren't sure who was going to show up. It let you pick a key that was comfortable for the group you had without having to transpose anything. It would work really well for a diatonic instrument. You could either add key signatures to it, or just identify the harp key. You could use b's and #'s to indicate bends, and you'd gain all the benefits of sheet music in a much easier form. I really need to download a free sheet music program and see if I can't put up a demo. With computers today, it also wouldn't be too hard to have a program that could change the way tab is displayed based on your preferences.
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Nate
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Michael Rubin
629 posts
Jul 31, 2012
1:28 PM
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I still write out songs in Jon Gindick tab that I learned my second day of harp.
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CarlA
90 posts
Jul 31, 2012
1:43 PM
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There is a better way, and it looks something like this. Problem is many would have difficulty reading it. Remember, we play children's toys(instruments), and as such need tablature that toddlers can read-lol!
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2012 1:45 PM
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timeistight
743 posts
Jul 31, 2012
2:00 PM
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Pistolcat
241 posts
Jul 31, 2012
2:06 PM
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Yeah! Actually! I need to hear the music I'm aiming for for timing and so on anyway. If it is in ordinary harp tabs I kind of remake into scale degrees in my head. It's a lit more useful for trying out different positions. Same if I have sheet, I convert it into scale degrees. Believe it helps my soloing, too.
I only feel at home in first, second and third position but it's even more useful the more positions you know.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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The7thDave
289 posts
Jul 31, 2012
2:08 PM
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It all depends on use. I use sheet music and tabs and scale degrees, depending on what I'm doing with them. I don't see why you need to give any of them up--they all have their uses.
Tabbing is really not just primitive musical notation for dumb people, it is a way to record the physical actions you are performing on a harmonica, and that can be a useful thing. Furthermore, unlike standard musical notation, tabs can be quickly scratched out on the back of a napkin with a pencil, or (with some systems) typed on a QWERTY keyboard without special software.
As for standardizing a universal tab system, best wishes. Personally, I don't have a problem dealing with the various systems. Most of them seem pretty straightforward, once you've seen a key.
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--Dave
* BTMFH *
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SuperBee
467 posts
Jul 31, 2012
2:32 PM
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+1 7th Dave
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smwoerner
91 posts
Jul 31, 2012
3:49 PM
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I'm with Dave, I use all that's available.
I do agree with @noodles original concern...there really is no standard way of showing harmonica tabs. However, I've never been that concerned because if it's an important song I generally end up grabin ght sheet music and making my own tabs or converting the tabs into sheet notation.
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nacoran
6023 posts
Jul 31, 2012
5:51 PM
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You could, short of actual sheet music, write the note under the tab number ??, although it's a pain on a computer. I think you need special software to do more than what I just did.
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Nate
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FMWoodeye
440 posts
Jul 31, 2012
6:24 PM
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@nacoran.....yeah, movable "do" would be acceptable to me as a compromise. It seems custom made for harp. Tabs don't work for me. I think if you (I) depend on tabs, you hurt yourself (myself) in the long run. Then again, we all use different mental processes to arrive at the same place. I hope this subject comes up in the Presidential debates.
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isaacullah
2112 posts
Jul 31, 2012
6:24 PM
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In my opinion, the worse thing about harp tabs isn't that there are several (they are all fairly logical), but that they typically do not include any way of denoting the timing of the notes. Timing is everything, and even if you know all the notes to be played, you still won't be able to play the song "by sight" unless you practice it enough to know the timing by heart (and then you know the song and you don't need the dang tab anymore!). When I write tab out by hand, I use a the drumming musical notation I learned as a kid to denote the timing, but that can't be done on the computer. When I type a tab, I try to space the notes relative to their timing in the phrase, and I also use things like long underscores (-4_________) to denote held notes, tilde's to (-4~~~~~~~) denote vibrato on a held note, comma's to denote rests, and line gaps to denote measure-long rests. It's far from perfect, but I find that adding those elements of timing really take a tab from mild "leg up" to an almost fully fledged legitimate notation system.
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mandowhacker
185 posts
Jul 31, 2012
6:45 PM
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I use tabs if I know the song. If I don't notation provides timing and stuff you don't get with tabs.
Adam's tabs work quite well showing the measures and the beats along with the "hole" to play.
With fretted instruments tabs often offer a great advantage in dictating the string/fret combo to work out the fingering. Notation only dictates the pitch of the note---which can be found all over the fretboard.
Greg
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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MakaInOz
66 posts
Jul 31, 2012
6:45 PM
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My fakebook has sheet music with tabs (in the -3" format), plus four other sorts of tab format. Sometimes, if it s tune I haven't played for a while, I can get lost if it uses no symbol for blow and - for draw, as some other tab formats in there use + for blow and no symbol for draw.
I like sheet music the best for learning - it gives you so much more than just the numbers/symbols. But I use a slow process - I'll usually write out the notes to figure out what key harp works best and then write out the tab for that harp. Of course the benefit of tab is key changes only require a different key harp.
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1847
102 posts
Jul 31, 2012
6:53 PM
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the best way i've seen
the draw notes are circled
the blow notes are not
right away without thinking
you know what note to play
if it is a draw bend add a line
with one slash thru it for a half step bend
2 lines for a full step bend
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JInx
272 posts
Jul 31, 2012
7:33 PM
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The7thDave said it all.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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SuperBee
469 posts
Jul 31, 2012
7:48 PM
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@1847
Yeah that sounds like the scheme I use when im transcribing. Good for handwritten. I like AG's system too.
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1847
103 posts
Jul 31, 2012
9:07 PM
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who's jp?
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Lazerface
40 posts
Jul 31, 2012
10:18 PM
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You can always copy down tabs on a seperate sheet of paper with a pen or pencil so they're notated to your liking. As far as rhythm or timing is concerned, add notes on a single line above the numbers for that, even bar lines (not a group of people trying to get inside for happy hour) and a time signature if you wish. Call it primitive technology, but it don't need batteries!
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Frank
952 posts
Aug 01, 2012
5:30 AM
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I think in the key of "C" regardless of what harp I'm playing. And I'll just write out songs as the "note name" G, Bb, Db, D, etc. That's my preference - I don't expect anyone else to understand it... but works for me, here is an example.
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mandowhacker
189 posts
Aug 01, 2012
1:38 PM
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1847----
I meant J.P. Allen, but I was.......pause the Internet for a rare admission of error.....wrong. It is not his style. I was familiar with the system you described and it s similar to that of Jon Gindick. I like it fine. It's easy to use "on the fly".
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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AirMojo
291 posts
Aug 01, 2012
1:39 PM
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A pirate walks into the bar with a ships wheel attached to the front o' his trousers.
The bartender asks, "What the hell is that ships wheel for?"
The pirate says, "I don't know, but it's drivin' me nuts!"
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mandowhacker
191 posts
Aug 01, 2012
2:44 PM
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I have no idea how that relates to the topic, but it's funny as hell.
Greg
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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Boyen
3 posts
Aug 02, 2012
3:53 PM
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Like everyone (I guess) I developped my own method of tabbing. Note, I play valved and I mostly play folk music, Irish/Bluegrass.
4 - 4 blow 1/4th
-4 - 4 inhale
-4'- 4 bend
-3'' - 3 double bend
4'- 4 valved bend
4! - Hold the 4 blow long 1/2nd
4!! - Hold the 4 blow very long 1/1
4i - hold the 4 blow short (1/8th or 1/16th)
[456] - play 456 as a tripplet 1/8th
{456} - play 456 as a tripplet 1/16th - usually an ornament of a note.
7^ - Play 7 with an ornament (tudulu)
The above really works for me, because I get a sense of tempo and a sense of ornaments as well as which notes belong to eachother.
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2012 3:55 PM
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Gnarly
304 posts
Aug 02, 2012
9:48 PM
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@ mandowhacker It's "on the fly" . . .
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kudzurunner
3419 posts
Aug 03, 2012
7:36 AM
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I met a guy in Switzerland who pulled me aside to show me that he had created his own unbelievably detailed form of tablature and had tabbed out all my YouTube lessons. It was amazingly complicated but amazingly precise. He was a computer programmer. He swore that once you got used to his method, everything else paled by comparison.
Harp tabbing in our era is like the English language 800 years ago. There's no standardized form. It's all the vulgate. Nor is there an acknowledged equivalent to Latin back then: the reference standard. We're all doing the best we can.
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garry
246 posts
Aug 04, 2012
6:59 PM
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i'd be curious to see what he came up with. as a software guy myself. i find standard notation a ridiculous mess of kludges and backwards compatibility hacks.
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