Header Graphic
beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players > A great begginners amp - Fender Mustang v2
A great begginners amp - Fender Mustang v2
Login  |  Register
Page: 1 2

Ian
189 posts
Dec 28, 2015
8:33 AM
This is my attempt at some kind of review of a new toy for me, the Fender mustang 1 v2, and specifically how I think it's a great amp for newer players looking to get in to amplified harp.

Let me proceed this with a short preface. This is not a tube amp, it will never get that true, rich, analogue, deep tone, but for the price.... Well, I'm not sure it can be beat.

So I got mine for about £85, and that seems about right. I think the rrp is just shy of £100.
Its a 20watt modeling amp, so it has all the effects etc built in.

First of all. Cosmetics.
Its a good looking amp. The Mustang 1 is about 40cm tall and can sit quite discreetly away. The grill and general finish gives it a cool retro look, with shiny fender branding here and there. It doesn't look too out of place in an environment other than a practice space.

Controls and inputs.
The amp has the expected knobs an so forth on the top, gain, volume, treble, bass, master. But then to the side of those you also get a preset switch which can cycle through a selection of factory presets which are supposed to resemble various classic amps and styles. Then there are two controls which cover mods, reverb and delay. There is also a tuner (which of course would be of more use to a guitarist).
There are the again the standard input and outputs including a headphone jack, but thee is also an USB connection and an audio in for mp3 players etc (so you can jam with tracks) .

Ease of use.
Cycling through the presets is very easy. Out of the box one that sounded really good without any mods would be the 59 bassman, but there are lots to choose from.
As soon as you adjust any other controls you can then save this modification to another preset of you want. Or leave it and let it forget it.
If you are happy to leave it there and just control it from the amp then it's not really an easy amp to control as there are a lot of options and the display (simple leds) isn't the easiest to follow. The delay options etc are fixed in to sets of 3 unless you dig in to the software, so modifying on the fly feels a bit limited.

Fuse software.
This is where this amp really shines.
The free fender fuse software allows users to create far more specific sounds and upload them to their actual amps and to also let others download the setup from the fender website. I downloaded a vox 30 preset from another user that I also like.
The interface on the computer is easy to use, once you select your amp of choice (which is displayed on screen) you can then adjust the original controls for that specific amp. You can add lots more, including pedals and post effects. So in some ways it can replace the need for all the extras if you want.
I'm really pleased with the sound I got from this.
I used an overdrive pedal, the bassman amp and some post reverb and delay (all of which can be fine tuned) . I think if you have a fender capable of fuse, you will be able to find my setup.

Sound.
Once you dig in to the software you can fairly accurately emulate the sound you are looking for. I'm sticking with my creating for the foreseeable future, with the basis being the 59 bassman, with a solid bit of overdrive and tiny bit of delay and reverb all mixed together to create a deep Chicago style sound.
Oh, and the 20watt mustang 1 has lots of good usable volume, all the way up...

So would I recommend it? Yes, although be prepared to dig in to the software to get the potential out of the amp for the harp. If you are tech phobic then I would probably steer clear, find something with simpler on amp controls and less reliance on software .

Its no tube but it may be the closest I'm going to get for my budget!

Last Edited by Ian on Dec 28, 2015 8:41 AM
SuperBee
3139 posts
Dec 28, 2015
3:20 PM
Yeah I'm not really tech phobic but I don't know I could be bothered with the software.
The Mustangs have been getting occasional reviews on this board for a while, when we get a thread about ss amps, the mustang usually gets a nod.
Speaking of amp model voices, does it have one called 'clean blackface'? That's my favourite on those fender chips. The 59 bassman is a nice sound but a bit prone to feedback I think...
At first I was disappointed that clean blackface was the model of choice for me. How boring does clean blackface sound. Overdriven tweed seemed much more exciting. But I've come to appreciate clean blackface. Everything I get from it is because of how I play and it doesn't load up my tone with some annoying distracting processed quality that eventually sounds artificial to me.
Sorry, off on the tangent again...I haven't even got out of bed yet and I'm already off track...
Yep, I think the Mustang sounds like a good value option.
Personally I'm having fun with solder and cheap 5w tube amps...maybe it's the fumes or the solder residue makes me this way...my dad was a solder junky (electronics pro for 20 years...seems longer) for and he hasn't said a word anyone can understand in the last 3 years...
MindTheGap
907 posts
Dec 29, 2015
12:15 AM
Thanks for this Ian. This is just the kind of thing we want. When I was starting to look at amps it was hard to get any advice other than 'it has to be tubes' - a VHT or something. But they are loud for home use and not loud enough for every gigging situation (there's a continual debate about that on Channel 1).

Considering the amp as an appropriate tool for the job, rather than a quest for the philospher's stone, there has to be a place for the modelling amp.

After a lot of experimenting my current 'truth' is that the microphone and hands are a far more important component in the chain than the amp. But you do need an amp and it needs to do certain things. After a long period of playing raw, I added a delay pedal and use that in specific ways on specific songs rather than 'on all the time'. Having that built into an amp is great for a beginner to experiment with, at no extra cost.

We should discuss these options some more I think. People seem to be buy the little Vox, I've not tried that myself. I did try an amp with a low-power tube (a little Blackstar) and remember it gave a disappointing fuzztone on all settings.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 29, 2015 12:25 AM
SuperBee
3144 posts
Dec 29, 2015
2:07 AM
I've just discovered that my amps volume controls can be set to points between 'off' and 'feedback'. It has taken me so long to discover this. I'm gonna find the modelling amp thread and post a link.
modelling/ss amp thread

And here is the thread where folks recommend their best current production amp picks, including some ss stuff after awhile. It's a good thread I think, worth a link Amp recommendations thread

Last Edited by SuperBee on Dec 29, 2015 2:27 AM
Ian
193 posts
Dec 29, 2015
3:49 AM
Like you said mtg, you can experiment with adding pedals at no extra cost. For a beginner who may be interested in these aspects but don't want to or can't make the financial investment it's a great alternative.
And of course you can create some effect free sounds which rely on your own technique and the mic more than the amp as well.
I did look at what vox were offering but after seeing them at the music store I thought the fender was better finished and felt more solid.
The equivalent power amp from vox at the same price is the plastic bodied vox vx1, and it doesn't have the fuse software.
I didn't bother checking out the lower power amps as this one isn't all that big but it gives me more options if I want to jam with others in a louder setting.
MindTheGap
908 posts
Dec 29, 2015
4:14 AM
SuperBee - I think you are being tongue in cheek about the volume control, so it's worth stating for the people who haven't delved into amps yet that the classic 5W tube amps that are so popular for harp tend to have just the one volume control - not separate gain and master controls like on bigger amps, or indeed on little modelling amps. So you can have them quiet and clean, or distorting and loud. But not quiet and distorting.

One nice feature of the modelling amps and pedals is that you can get the cranked up sound (or an emulation of it), without the volume. If it's the distorted sound you want to get, then it's helpful to practice with that and work out how it responds to the dynamics of playing.

For the purposes of full disclosure I do own a 5W amp and I have modified it - lots of fun and a great learning experience. And I like the aesthetics of it, glowing tubes and all that. A connection with history. At home I practice with a 6W modelling amp that has a nice Champ setting. In the shed, the 5W of tube sounds massive compared to the 6W of Solid State. When I mic them up and record them, I can hardly tell the difference on playback, with the volume normalised.

Ian, I could imagine your 20W Mustang could provide a useful volume, be interesting if you could report back on that. One my key discoveries was just how much wattage I needed to get a recognisable harp sound over amongst a band - not even a loud band. Compared to the electric guitarists. They always seem to have volume to spare.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 29, 2015 4:34 AM
ME.HarpDoc
70 posts
Dec 29, 2015
12:21 PM
I almost bought a Mustang I a few weeks ago as I was looking for something louder for jamming than my Harp Train 10. The shop wouldn't take one out of the box for me to try so I went another route

I went on eBay and purchased a EH 44Magnum (see other threads on this on main forum), bought an old Peavey Envoy 110 at a local pawn shop (Solid State.Sounds terrible with harp-early feedback) and plan on replacing the 10"speaker with a L'il Buddy I have and bypassing the Peavey circuitry essentially using the Envoy as a speaker cab. This will be my first attempt at an amp project. I'll let you know how it turns out when it's done. Total invested about $220.
SuperBee
3145 posts
Dec 29, 2015
12:51 PM
Tongue in cheek? Well yes, but maybe not quite the way you mean. MTG, as you said "After a lot of experimenting my current 'truth' is that the microphone and hands are a far more important component in the chain than the amp. But you do need an amp and it needs to do certain things."
You don't need the amp to distort in order to practice your mic technique. In fact, I have recently discovered that it sounds much better if you don't have the amp distorting. This is what I mean by my slightly fatuous remark about volume points between off and feedback. I found that there is a point at which my amp begins to work 'properly', but that point is quite a bit below the point where everything coming in to it is reproduced with distortion. It's 'quiet' enough to use in my room with the door shut and my hifi playing a jam track. Ok, not exactly what my kids might call 'quiet' but really not much louder than the TV.
The distinction I'm trying to point to is 'overdrive' from the amp compared to 'overdrive' from the mic. The latter is what I want to control with mic technique. I used to think this sound was achieved by having the amp set to play clean at 'normal' breath force, and then distort if I played harder as in louder, more forcefully. But actually I have changed my mind about that. I now believe I can set the amp at lower volume and create the overdriven sound from the element. So the distortion heard coming out of the speaker is coming not from the amp tubes 'saturation' but from the signal entering the amp. And this is the thing I wish to practice when using an amp to develop amplified sound with mic handling technique.
I think. I could be wrong.
Yep all those things about using effects and learning what you like and don't are valid to learn also, but this thing I have described is something which only very recently occurred to me.
I had modified an epi valve Jr and was playing with it to see what I thought of the result...id turned it up to hear it at full tilt and I was mildly disappointed. I mean it was much improved in terms of volume sweep and slightly better tone but just sounded a lot like any other 8" amp cranked up. Oh well, don't be hasty I thought. But it seemed a little 'stiff' to me, and nothing special.
The second time I brought it out I was filling time waiting for my daughter to get ready and ask me to take her somewhere, so I told her to not be put off, just interrupt me when she was ready to go. In the interest of being able to hear her when she knocked, I set the volume somewhat lower. As I played along with s jam track, I thought actually this amp sounds pretty good, it's much better than my initial assessment. My daughter said, "well it sounds pretty good" which is possibly the only positive thing she has ever said about me playing through an amp...and I realised what I had been doing was using mic technique to change the sound and just let the amp amplify what I was putting in. Sure, it reproduces the signal with a characteristic 'colouration' one may say, but it's not necessary to have the amp 'distort' the signal.
That's my current thinking on it. Feel free to trash it. I've been playing with mics and amps for 8 years now and this is the first time I've thought this. But I'm gonna run with it.
Actually...I'll come back to it...have to water the garden...gonna be 27C here today
MindTheGap
910 posts
Dec 29, 2015
3:05 PM
I like this idea, and I'd like it to be the case. Although I have worked out various sets of kit that work empirically, I've definitely not worked it all out theoretically. Hence my 'current truth'. You've got to have a working theory right? Well I do, I'm a scientist.

What I observed right away is that the amount of amplifier distortion required for harp was a lot less than I thought, and a lot less than I'd use for a guitar for instance. Hence almost none of the guitar distortion pedals were any use - even the ones called 'blues crunch' and the like. And over time, I've tended to dial in less and less amp distortion.

My purist ideal would be to play straight to a PA and I know some people do that to good effect.

What I found when playing with a band rather than in the shed was that other things became much more important than subjective things like the crunchiness. Like being loud enough while playing quietly, loud enough to get the dynamics across, and avoiding feedback.

And when I got the bulletini, it seemed to sound pleasing played through pretty much anything. So it's all still a bit mysterious.

Hope the watering goes well. 27C? Not far off that in the UK at the moment.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 29, 2015 3:13 PM
SuperBee
3146 posts
Dec 29, 2015
3:21 PM
Yeah so when I was writing the previous post I remembered something from a couple years back when I was practicing repertoire in my room regularly. At first I had a little amp which developed about 3 or 4 watts but it had an internal speaker that couldn't handle the volume. So it was good for fairly low volume practice because if I turned it too loud the speaker would rattle and it was not a good sound...speaker distortion. I didn't think about the issue at the time in the terms I wrote about above, but I did notice my practice was rather satisfying. That amp broke down...the tone pot was very old and had spots where it would cut out...so until I worked out the problem I replaced it with my 5watt Fender Vibro Champ XD. After a while I noticed how good the fender was sounding but I attributed it to breaking in the speaker. But I'm thinking that actually what happened was that I was setting the volume the way I'd become used to.

Anyway this is a mild segue back to the OP, because that XD amp is a hybrid modelling amp and the models are somewhat related to those in the Mustang range. The larger sibling of the Vibro Champ was the Super Champ XD, which has been replaced with the updated X2....similar amp but with the same preamp voices as the Mustang and also the FUSE software...this is the amp which was recommended by David Barrett for its value for money and versatility.
I really do like the VibroChamp XD and could go so far as to name it my favourite small amp. My only concern is whether it will last.
I realise with some shame that I've really been quite OT here so I must apologise and I thank you Ian for a very good OP regarding the Mustang amp
MindTheGap
911 posts
Dec 29, 2015
11:53 PM
Yes I think it's a great OP and also a useful discussion. There's a question about whether a modelling amp is any good for harp (as in the thread you posted from the other place). Ian says it in his opening remarks "it's not going to beat a tube amp".

I do think that's the received wisdom. I don't know if that's true or not, and why that should be.

A person might judge the mustang as being a better buy on practical grounds (effects, price...) but regard it as sub-tube-amp in terms of pure 'tone'. Is that the right though, and why? Definitely worth mulling over here.

I'm a technician at heart, and for me I just want the tool for the job and to understand it. But I can help being swayed when I turn up with a tube amp and there's a response from other people along the lines of, 'Right, that's the real deal'.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 29, 2015 11:57 PM
MindTheGap
912 posts
Dec 30, 2015
12:04 AM
Ha, I've just seen your collection of amps on Channel 1 SuperBee. Very nice. You've got it bad :) It does make you supremely qualified to write here about comparisons!

In my defence, I don't own many amps but I've tried quite a few, as my son is in a band and their kit often ends up round the house.

ME.HarpDoc - Please do report back on your Magnum/Cabinet project. BTW do you reckon the Mustang might be louder than the Harp Train 10? I know you didn't get to play it there.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 30, 2015 12:18 AM
Ian
195 posts
Dec 30, 2015
4:30 AM
Imo with modelling amps they offer an almost perfect tool for the beginner.
They are relatively cheap, they emulate the sounds of a variety of amps... Tube or not... And you can play with the idea of pedals, without investing in pedals.
Its like a testing ground to find what sound you appreciate.
Are they on a par with a good tube amp in regards to pure natural tone? No, I don't think they ever could be as they could never create the organic variations as they are 'emulating' and can't get beyond that.
However!
I would say that in a jam /performance setting, playing to those who either don't know or don't care, a well set up amp like the mustang will be just as 'effective' as even the most expensive, luxe, handwired, vintage tube amp.
You only loose that fight if either you or those listening care deeply about 'that tone'.

It almost mirrors the eternal 'what harps best debate' in the sense that for the most part, the listener won't notice one way or the other. All they will notice is the skill of the player.

Last Edited by Ian on Dec 30, 2015 5:06 PM
ME.HarpDoc
72 posts
Dec 30, 2015
4:53 PM
@MTG
The Mustang I v2 sounds like a great SS amp with lots of features for the price. To answer your question about loudness of the Harptrain vs. the Mustang. I would guess there would not be a big difference based on some info from Greg Heumann's report on mics and amps.

The HT is 8 W through a 10" speaker. The Mustang is 20W through an 8"speaker. According to Greg, most people can't detect a difference in loudness less than 3db (decibels). To gain 3db you need to double the power (~16W). If playing at a jam where the band can be up around 100db, you'd need to increase approx 10db to really notice an increase in loudness. To get that you'd need to increase power 10X, or approx 50-80W.

While there has been a lot of discussion on the forum of good sound at jam/stage levels from 15-30W amps, you also have to take into consideration the size and number of speakers as well as their sensitivity to forecast whether it would be loud enough. So, based on this and not knowing the sensitivity of the Mustang's speaker (the HT speaker has high sensitivity), I wouldn't expect a big difference in performance.

I'll say that when I turned up volume to 10 and the Balls circuit (gain) on the HT to around 1:00, I got a lot of feedback. So I swapped out the 12ax7 tube for a 12ay7 per Greg's suggestion and the feedback went away (playing through an Astatic JT30 with a Shure CM element)
Killa_Hertz
67 posts
Jan 01, 2016
7:17 PM
This was the first amp i bought. It had alot of features built in. But i don't even have a computer anymore. After phones and tablets who needs one. So i couldn't use the fuse software. And without it there wasn't too many stock settings that worked great for harp. The bassman modeller tweaked a bit sounded pretty good. But i took it back. It was plenty loud enough tho. I guess that all depends on your application however.

I ended up buying a moded vht special 6 and a zoom multi stomp. Honestly the ss sound, atleast of the mustang, kinda bugged me. But i honestly end up using my honey tone or my 386 amp i built for messin at home most of the time, lol. The vht and the mustang are both too loud for a home practice amp, for me anyway.

The mustang just sounded processed i guess is the word, idk. But to be fair the vht setup I ended up with is like 3 times more.

Overall for the money is a good solid amp that has alot of toys to play with. And if you use that fuse software you can tweak just about everything.

But if you just wana play with amped harp. Get a multistomp and a 1w SS amp and a sm57.

My opinion.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
MindTheGap
919 posts
Jan 02, 2016
12:39 AM
Thanks KHz. I can see the VHT being too loud for home practice, but I would expect you can turn the Mustang right down on master volume?

I do know what you mean by the feeling it's a 'processed sound'. But I'm not sure what this effect really is. I've got a feeling that it's volume related. When I play the tube amp at home, it sounds loud, raw, organic and real. My modelling amp is quiet I perceive it as 'processed' in comparison. But when I record them, and the volume is normalised, they are hard to distinguish.

When I started out my goal was to reproduce the sounds I heard on records. I was looking for particular features and there are many different amped sounds. I've changed tack now and rather search from some end goal, I'd rather play though anything that basically works and enjoy that sound for what it is.

That said, I do think that the choice of equipment is important and does demonstrably affect the sound.

Part of me wants to say to hell with it all, buy a little Pignose 7-100 and use that for everything: practice, recording, lined-out to a PA. I did have a 2nd-hand one once. It sounded like they do, which is not like a tube amp, so I went in search of tubey things. Also, it was faulty and hissed all the time.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 02, 2016 2:00 AM
SuperBee
3168 posts
Jan 02, 2016
2:34 AM
Mine is faulty. I got much better busking returns when I used the PigNose than my mouse. I might sell the mouse and repair the pignose. I had trouble finding a speaker for them pignose...which would allow its to close with the amp in place...I'm not sure what's wrong with it but suspect a cap is breaking down...but which one?
MindTheGap
920 posts
Jan 02, 2016
4:16 AM
I thought about repairing mine, but although I've some background in electronics I don't have enough kit to diagnose and fix. I found you can buy a complete replacement board, but what with shipping from the USA it wasn't worth it. If I were to go Pignose again, I'd have to get a new one.

The pignose is a bit of naked solution, bit of a statement, and that appeals. But logically, those modelling amps as Ian describes in the Mustang are really much better value. Hugely better value. Aren't they?

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 02, 2016 4:26 AM
SuperBee
3169 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:27 AM
depends what you want. for me, i dont think the mustang would be 'hugely better' value, because i'd never be satisfied with it and i'd find the possibilities distracting. i think it would drive me crazy. but thats me...i spent a little time with effects and fairly quickly decided what i liked and what i didn't really care about. for instance...there is one fellow who posts a few videos, quite an accomplished player in his way, and nothing against him or his playing, respect all around actually, just his sound is not to my taste. i cant listen to more than 30 seconds and more often just dont listen because i know it will grate. same with trad analogue amps...of course you check out the extremes and mess around but that for me was a pasing thing...pretty soon i found that lots of distortion is boring and unmusical, too much bass is awful, lots of reverb is distracting and gimmicky..but these things can be used judiciously...i guess i just think i have bigger problems, like understanding how to play musically and not horribly etc...all the well worn cliches...but basically i just want to play well and effects and amp models are a long way behind that in my interests...
but, it is just about your interest..if it was gonna be your only amp and you wanted to play out where you could plug in..and you were into it...maybe its much better value...but only if you'll use it
i loved my pignose for instance..very handy. i miss it a bit...pretty sure aki used one for his practice amp too, at least for a while.

Last Edited by SuperBee on Jan 02, 2016 5:35 AM
SuperBee
3170 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:30 AM
and i believe they actually can sound very good...though many turn them up to distort, i believe thats a mistake. a delay pedal and volume up about 3 or 4 out of ten...just before it is always broken up...and a nice mic...i think the pignose is quite good at that...maybe i'm harsh with the mouse, i'll try playing it quieter too...mouse has quite harsh distortion...
Ian
197 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:38 AM
@superbee. I think you are absolutely right. Value is so personal.
To me what gives the mustang it's value is its affordability and flexibility.
What I have done is spend a day setting about 7 presets to sounds that I really like.
Most of them are pretty subtle, very little reverb etc.
@mtg. Yes the master can be turned right down. Plus as the sound is digital you can get the 'right sound' at very low volumes.
I also practice with headphones a lot with a jam tracks fed in to the amp, so again... More value for me.
MindTheGap
921 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:42 AM
Sure. Myself, I'm after a fairly traditional sort of sound so most of the wide spectrum of the modelling amp's capabilities I wouldn't use. One of the modelling amps I tried was a Line 6, very popular for guitarists, and I found just a couple of really good settings on that. The rest were technically wrong - like too high gain - or effects laden.

My little NUX practice amp (no one else has ever mentioned it, maybe it's not on sale in the USA) is much lower spec than the Mustang, but turned out to have 4 of it's 7 (I think) preset settings really quite good for harp, i.e. low gain. Whenever I see it demoed, with guitar which is the target of course, it's always some shredder using the one really high-gain setting weee-wahhh-diddley-diddely....diddley-waaaah. So it's all by accident that it's good for harp. I bought it coz I was going for a Roland micro-cube, and the NUX was clearly much better configured for harp.

In particular it has lo/med/hi EQ and I find that the magic is in the medium pot: it makes it sound more 'raw' and less 'processed'. Maybe the 'processed' sound is the sound of a mid-scooped guitar-oriented amp? Enlighten me.

I just went and listened to a load of harp-pignose demos on YT and most are not what I'm after (no disrespect, but it's all fuzz) apart from Steve Harvell who I think sounds great, although he's got a very up-front sound so you really have to mean it!

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since I tried the pignose, maybe worth a rethink. As you say, not going straight for the very distorted sound may be the trick.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 02, 2016 5:50 AM
MindTheGap
922 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:53 AM
Ian - ta. So you see, I'm conflicted. My head says 'modelling amp' and my heart or guts or something say 'look at those glowing tubes', or imagine just carrying a pignose round and setting that up.
Ian
198 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:13 AM
@mtg. If it's glow you want maybe one of those yamaha modelling amps with the fake glow from behind the grilles? ;)

I'll be totally honest. At heart, I of course want a beautiful tube amp, but I just can't warrant the expense, considering just how close I can get the mustang to sounding on point.
Ian
199 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:21 AM
I suppose you could you this as an analogy.

The mustang is like a Swiss army knife. Affordable, Totally flexible, loads of options, does a good job at most of them.... But maybe isn't 'great' at any of them

A good tube amp would be more like a hand crafted hunting knife.
Expensive. Limited options. Great at its main purpose but kinda inflexible on its own.

Last Edited by Ian on Jan 02, 2016 6:29 AM
Killa_Hertz
71 posts
Jan 02, 2016
7:03 AM
Ian i think that analogy hit the nose on the nail. Or whatever.

Mtg of course you can turn the master down. And at low volume it sounded great, but like i said it was my first amp and even tho i knew better i wanted somethin that made me sound like jesus playin the harp. I wouldn't kno about recording quality,but that's cool it works for you. And i wasnt knockin it, if it works for you cool. Its a solid built amp. And with the fuse software it s prolly amazing. Tweaked right you can't barely tell sometimes.

After i got the vht a got my tube demon satisfied, i did figure out its kind of a one trick deal by itself. And too loud to break up right at home volume. So now i play thru a home made 386 chip amp with a multistomp. My dirty thirty flea market special Or a honeytone, which for $20 sounds pretty good. So who s to say what works. The player makes the gear work anyhow. That's why I've been focusing on my acoustic tone more.

I do like the multi stomp tho because you can set up tons of pedal boards. And when you switch amps around you select the pedal board (s) for that amp. Check out the zoom multistomp on you tube. I like it.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 02, 2016 7:09 AM
SuperBee
3171 posts
Jan 02, 2016
1:59 PM
Great comments. I totally get that idea of spending the time and finding what works and hanging with that. It's the same way I feel about the one modelling amp (as distinct from ss) that I have. It's only got one useful setting out of 16, but big deal, I only need one. If it'd been set up as a single voice ss or hybrid or tube amp maybe I wouldn't have had access to the sound which works for me. I had to work a bit to find it among all the possibilities but many rule themselves out as soon as you try them. Regardless of any other tweaks, often you can just tell 'that sound will never work' and quickly move on.
Of course, I talk about getting bogged down in software, but it's probably less investment of energy than learning to tweak high voltage tube amp circuits with the soldering iron...although a bit lacking in the thrill that comes with the ever-present possibility of electrocution.
So yeah, probably right, software amp models are all the go...maybe the days of tube amps are limited anyway...
But...a tube amp doesn't have to be very expensive. KHz has a VHT, and I think those are very inexpensive. I have 3 valve juniors, and obtained each for less than $200 Australian. And then I had the joy of messing with them.
they are little amps though.
How loud do you reckon the Mustang is?
Killa_Hertz
75 posts
Jan 02, 2016
2:39 PM
Its hard to say exactly how loud with out a db meter or something. But i would say it's in the same range as the vht give or take.

I bought mine already modded, Luckily. I paid i think $150 for it. When i get good enough to start playing out i will likely start messing with it some more. Play with tubes n speaker upgrades n such. But for now it's all the amp i could use n then some. I think people may put too much stock in gear. Ofcourse if you perform that's a whole different story, but for playing at home n practicing Its amazing what a cheapo amp will do with some effects added.

The mustang 1 would be great if you could edit the fuse software on a built-in screen or something. Ibelieve the mustang 3 has something similar to this, but its a much larger amp and more expensive. better yet a fuse app and just plug your phone into it and customise your model and effects that way.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 02, 2016 2:49 PM
Ian
201 posts
Jan 02, 2016
3:13 PM
I can't believe that fender don't have an android and ios app in development. I mean it's all there ready to go, even the fuse software as is has an 'app' feel to it, very graphical easily touch screen.
Those kind of additions would keep the price down and add a huge level of functionality about it.

I might turn it up to 11 at some point when the missus is out and report back on volume!
Killa_Hertz
76 posts
Jan 02, 2016
4:00 PM
Haha crank it to 11! That's right.

Ian what kind of mic u use. Out of curiosity.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Ian
202 posts
Jan 02, 2016
4:30 PM
I have two, a new green bullet and an old akai ADM 8. My go to mic is the Akai. Its got such great tone although it's a pig to hold.
Killa_Hertz
77 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:23 PM
Nice never heard of the Akai till now. Sounds good n is cheap. I like it. Why so tough to hold. Cus its small. Wrap it in grip tape.

I use my pyle57 more than my real sm57. I think it sounds better. I also have a Red Howler i got on sale at guitar center for $30. It's ok.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 02, 2016 5:24 PM
MindTheGap
923 posts
Jan 03, 2016
12:28 AM
The Akai DM13 is the one that gets a good press for harp, it's a bigger diameter than the one you mention, so easier to hold. Mine (used of course) came with a smaller one, ADM 11, which is physically much thinner and doesn't respond to cupping the same way.

KHz - Interesting to hear you mention the pyle57 copy - you mean the PylePro PDMIC78? I have a couple of these for general purpose use. It behaves just like a 57 to my ears, both in normal use and cupping for harp, extraordinary value. Not as robust though.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 03, 2016 12:34 AM
Ian
204 posts
Jan 03, 2016
4:26 AM
Yeah, in order to make it work for cupping at all I had to wrap it in plumbers tape. Its pretty comfortable now and cups well. It'll do me for a while....

Last Edited by Ian on Jan 03, 2016 8:15 AM
MindTheGap
924 posts
Jan 03, 2016
4:51 AM
Since the discussion has meandered around tube amps vs the rest, I can't let it go without mentioning the popular Lone Wolf Harp Break pedal. The reason is that it provides a particular bit of the sound that I simply haven't been able to replicate strongly in other than in an actual tube amp - and that's a kind of sharp-edged ripping sound to the notes particularly when you lean on them.

Superbee and I have discussed the usefulness of the HB before, and I agree that if you have a nice 5W tube amp, it doesn't add to the sound. Although for practice it does allow you to turn the volume down and still have break-up. But if you have a SS amp (i.e. not modelling) it really does add that particular sound, very clearly IMO.

For I while I heard that ripping sound so often, alongside people saying 'great tone' that I sort of thought that was the target sound. For me, it's either there or not in the amps I've tried. With hindsight, perhaps it's not the be all and end all, but I still listen for it.

Interestingly, when I put the HB break then through a modelling amp or pedal, that ripping sound largely disappears.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 03, 2016 4:56 AM
Killa_Hertz
79 posts
Jan 03, 2016
9:06 AM
MTG yes that's the exact mic I'm taking about. I bought it because of the price. As you said it's not robust. I imediatly took it apart n resoldered every connection in it. Now i prefer it over the sm because i can beat it up n not worry.

A word of advice to everyone if you buy this mic however. The xlr female to 1/4" male cable that comes with this mic is Dog xxxx.
The tip of it broke off in a pedal the first day. However i didn't notice and tried to plug a different mic in and pushed the broken off piece deeper into the pedal. And it was a major ordeal. If u really want to use it atleast replace this end with a radio shack one or something.

That's cool about the harp break. I wonder how it would sound with the zoom multistomp. My setups almost all have models in them, but i could set one up without it or just click the modeller off.

Anybody else use any multi effects pedals/units.?
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
MindTheGap
926 posts
Jan 03, 2016
9:59 AM
Good, yes me too, the price! Plus lots of excellent reviews. That said, mine are a couple of years old and no problems yet. A friend had one and the grill broke off - it doesn't rotate like on a 57.

That's annoying about the cable. I use it 'the proper way' with an xlr-xlr cable and impedance matching transformer into an amp, or into the xlr mixer input.

Re multi-effects, I have tried the Digitech RP one, and while it worked, at the time I was looking for that ripping sound I mentioned, and I couldn't get that. It's an attractive idea - one pedal and all the sounds. You can get those Richard Hunter patches with all kinds of harp-specific settings already dialled in. But I don't hear the ripping sound, either when I tried it or in the samples.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 03, 2016 10:00 AM
Killa_Hertz
80 posts
Jan 03, 2016
10:11 AM
I would like to try the richard hunter patches in the digitech.

I'm still curious how it would sound mic into multistomp into harpbreak into SS amp.

Yea i now use a shure inline impedance xfmr. I actually ordered it at the same time as the pyle, but the mic got there first and i couldn't resist playing with it.

Ive seen people use a bike innertube piece wrapped over the top of the 57 to create a constant cup. I think it's a greg heuman idea. Imma give it a try.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
ME.HarpDoc
74 posts
Jan 03, 2016
12:51 PM
I wrapped the head of my SM 545 with the wide rubber bands that come on a Maine Lobster's claws. Works great to customize the grip and I don't have to take the tire off my bike!

KH, there was a post a while back on the forum re a video by Jason Ricci on holding the SM 57 to avoid hand fatigue. I still found I needed to wrap the head as my hands got sweaty.
Killa_Hertz
84 posts
Jan 03, 2016
12:59 PM
Yea. This mod was to wrap around the sides of the grill to take the place of your hands cupping. Kno what i mean?

Basically a wide rubber band wrapped around the sides, obviously, but flush with the top grill.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 03, 2016 1:01 PM
SuperBee
3181 posts
Jan 03, 2016
1:13 PM
That ripping sound i have also obtainr with the harp octave and delay pedals used simultaneously in mh deville. It reminded me of a sound ive heard on rod piazza records..maybe the bacon fat stuff. I was quite taken with it at thd time but its been so long that im not sure i can rrmembrr how i did it
SuperBee
3182 posts
Jan 03, 2016
1:31 PM
I sold my harp break (cheep too) somewhat impetuously b4 id really spent enough time with it to understand whatvit could do. Id worked out what it couldnt do and that was it for me. I think i was still fuming from my expperiencr with ghd harp dhield...not that there is snythinv wronb with that pedsl either, just my understanding was misguided, snd i did feel some of the promotion wss mislesding so i had my knickers perhaps unecessarily twisted and had s bit of a huff on about the harp break which was also promoted by someone i now considered was just in it for a buck. So whatever, my bad (abit...but im pretty cynical these days about 'harmonica community' people plugginb products...some people anyway) but i believe in the harp break because 1 million coyotes cant be wrong. It must be ghd most widely loved pedal in harmonica world. Maybe i should get another. Lone wolf have developed a bunch of stuff lately which looks useful, but the boogieman is just too exxy for me. The terminator looks useful though and im thinking of getting one for our blues club to use in thd jam for thd harp playes..which is usuallh me or Dave thd president anyway so be a bit lkke buying one for me, but maybe i can convince the cljb to buy it...
Must apologise for my spelling this morning. Using a galaxy tab anc gge spacing is obviously messi9nv me up
MindTheGap
927 posts
Jan 03, 2016
3:35 PM
Superbee - that's quite an interesting read with the typos in. Surprisingly legible. Apart from 'exxy', expensive?

It's an ill wind that blows no one any good, and it was reading your analysis of the harp shield that made me think twice about buying one, for the good reason that it would work well in one situation, not another. I worked out a better solution.

I do think you were right in your assessment of the harp break: if you already have a tube amp that breaks up nicely, why would you need one? It's a tool after all. One of it's advertised uses is for adding break-up to amps that don't easily. It does a specific thing and does it very well IMO. Aside from liking what it does, I like the 'does what it says on the tin' aesthetic.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 03, 2016 3:39 PM
SuperBee
3184 posts
Jan 03, 2016
4:23 PM
yes for sure. oh yes, 'exxy' is 'expensive', not a typo...just a common australian thing to shorten a word like that. we like it so much that i think we sometimes lengthen words just to get the ee sound in there

i shouldn't have said i'm 'cynical' either. 'skeptical' at times.

there are times i could use a harp break. i understand a bit more now than i did at the time. and sometimes at the club i dont want to carry an amp because i like to see how the night is going before deciding whether to get up. often the jam is just not going to suit a harp ...well not the way i like to play...aka the only way i know...
i was dismayed yesterday when i suggested a song to my jam buddies which they enthusiastically embraced. i was happy until they proposed modeling it on a version recorded 10 years after the beautiful version i'd envisaged, with the words 'the one with otis rush has loads more grunt!". true...if grunt means its rock...even Little Walter was struggling to play his song in that group...i tried to divert them by getting them to listen to Robert Lockwood in the Aces, but i think rock may have taken the day
Killa_Hertz
86 posts
Jan 03, 2016
4:29 PM
Just curious, but how long have you guys been playing?
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
SuperBee
3185 posts
Jan 03, 2016
5:26 PM
i have been trying to learn since 1983. i began to make significant progress in 2012. i'm not a 'beginner' but i'm definitely a 'learner'. i have some slight experience in bands and learned a lot about amplification of harmonica in loud situations. i got to play in support acts for a few reasonably well known bands and see a bit about how they did things. and ive had the benefit of a few dozen lessons with a professional musician...which reminds me that i have a one-off lesson with Ron Sunshine this week! and i have no idea what i'm going to get his help with..

i have a few moves but i'm definitely very much an enthusiast/hobbyist/afficianado

Last Edited by SuperBee on Jan 03, 2016 5:27 PM
Fil
90 posts
Jan 03, 2016
5:36 PM
SuperBee and MTG, I really appreciate what you do in this Beginners' Forum. Useful commentary, good advice, and humble opinions given in good humor.
----------
Phil Pennington
Killa_Hertz
92 posts
Jan 03, 2016
6:01 PM
83 wow. Not to make you feel old, but i was born in 84. 8^x

I was a sound and lighting tech for about 6 years before i became an Electrician. Worked with everything from big bands to bar bands. So I've seen a few things in the musician world i guess. Played drums when i was younger. But this is my first real attempt at "mastering" an instrument. And im definitely Hooked.

Fil ... I second that. Much appreciated input from the both of yall. Help from guys like yall and Adam, Ronnie Shellist, Jason Ricci is the reason i made it past the beginner phase without giving up. Makes me think of how long and agrivating it must have been to learn before youtube. And the Internet.

N sorry for hijacking the thread. Just kinda wanted to BS a bit with yall.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 04, 2016 4:58 AM
MindTheGap
929 posts
Jan 04, 2016
12:51 AM
Thanks, appreciated. I think since spring 2012. I didn't take it seriously for the first few months - I remember I just wanted to learn the secret of bending, and how to make that honking electric sound. Then I got hooked.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 04, 2016 12:56 AM
rogonzab
870 posts
Jan 12, 2016
3:00 PM
I have the Champion 40. Is the same amp as the Mustang II, but whitout the Fuse software.

You can get good sounds out it, and is so lightweight!

This weekend I am going to record a live show whit my band. I will post the recording here.
----------
Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.


Post a Message



(8192 Characters Left)


Modern Blues Harmonica supports

§The Jazz Foundation of America

and

§The Innocence Project

 

 

 

ADAM GUSSOW is an official endorser for HOHNER HARMONICAS