groyster1
205 posts
Jul 11, 2010
7:55 AM
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I recently purchased a suzuki manji in the key of f at hch billy branch said he endorsed this harp so felt if its good enough for him its good enough for me the trouble is Im too easy to please and have a slew of special 20s as to me they are the best harp for the buck
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tookatooka
1515 posts
Jul 11, 2010
8:52 AM
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I used to be a Suzuki nut but since I started playing the Sp20 I've been converted. If only Suzuki could make a long slot harp with the Sp20 tuning for the price of a HarpMaster. I'd be there like a shot.
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barbequebob
1015 posts
Jul 11, 2010
12:06 PM
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The Manji and the FAbulous, both made by Suzuki, are the only Asian made harps using long slot reeds. The jI tuned version of the Fabulous is closest to the Sp20 tuning setup (which is actually a comprimise tuning), and the Manji is a comprimise tuning where the 3rd of both the blow and draw shord is tuned 5 cents flat to sweeten the chord sound. I suggested to Brendan Power, who works for Suzuki, to have a version of it in JI, and he agreed that they should, so I think he's kinda working on that.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
653 posts
Jul 11, 2010
12:19 PM
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i like the MANJI and the SP20 and all versions of the MARINE BAND. actually, i like anything that works good.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Kyzer Sosa
702 posts
Jul 11, 2010
1:06 PM
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Bb, G and A manjis... all are excellent. im slowly gravitating away from my SP 20's
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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tookatooka
1518 posts
Jul 11, 2010
1:11 PM
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The SP20 is 3 and 15/16ths of an inch long. I like the size. Anyone know the length of the Manji please?
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JohnnieHarp
3 posts
Jul 11, 2010
1:59 PM
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>The SP20 is 3 and 15/16ths of an inch long. I like the size. Anyone know the length of the Manji please?
Same length compared side by side standing on end. The Manji may be fractions of a millimeter longer due to slightly overhanging reed plates which could be sanded/filed back. Cover plates may extend a bit closer to the end of the harp.
Incidentally there are additional coverplate holes pre-drilled throught the reedplate and comb in the normal mid-location as well as in the forward location for those that don't care for the forward location of the coverplate screws out of the box. If using, additional holes in the coverplates need to be drilled. The reedplates are well secured by 8 or so reedplate screws and the forward location is only cosmetic in my opinion. I find the forward location uncomfortable due to the screws being lip-felt.
Manji also has sharp reed plate edges at the ends and corners (sandwich construction). I'll be smoothing these. When I compare the reed / reed slot tolerances to both the Harpmaster and Bluesmaster, they look about the same to me. Embossing should be worthwhile.
I agree that a longer and thinner reed profile would be great for the Suzuki line to facilitate overbends. This would make Suzuki a definite "Hohner-killer" given Suzuki quality and price.
Interestingly, I did a Circ-Jim tuned Harpmaster using Blu Tack. With extra tip weighting, I get easy overblows.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2010 2:15 PM
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tookatooka
1519 posts
Jul 11, 2010
2:09 PM
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Thanks JohnnieHarp. Brendan says the Manji reedplates will fit into the HarpMaster BluesMaster and ProMaster. I haven't seen any replacement Manji plates for sale yet but when they are it's something I would consider.
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JohnnieHarp
4 posts
Jul 11, 2010
2:17 PM
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Hopefully Manji plates will become available for those that want to switch with other models. Should be good for Suzuki's business.
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boris_plotnikov
153 posts
Jul 11, 2010
3:43 PM
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I have one Bb manji. And it's loudests Bb harmonica I have (I have Sp20, LO, GM, 1847, folkmaster, silver star). After some costumizing it works good, but I prefer to play gigs with 1847, as I don't have to worry about tuning (for 2 years of constant playing there are no reeds that need to be retuned).
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sorin
189 posts
Jul 11, 2010
8:30 PM
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tooka , I posted some photos with the manji plates in the harpmaster comb ,on this forum , some time ago: the last set of photos
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Jim Harris
28 posts
Jul 11, 2010
9:55 PM
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I just got a Manji in G to check against Spec 20 G. No contest, the Spec 20 is out. This Manji is the nicest sounding, easiest playing in my collection. Runner's up are all Suzuki's: Hammond C, Promaster V in D and Bluesmaster with replacement MR-300 plates in A. The Suzuki's are taking over -- next might be a Manji in C. I'm getting encouraged to try the Firebreath or Overdrive.
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groyster1
206 posts
Jul 11, 2010
10:36 PM
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my manji is 4 1/8" seems like the manji might be superior to the special 20 think they are both great the manji and the over priced crossover the first wood combs I have bought in 20 years its possible that suzuki is making hohner quite uncomfortable
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MP
671 posts
Jul 12, 2010
2:39 AM
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hey groyster!
when i used to buy and sell used guitars and amps the rule we went by was was,"if it sounds good, it is good".
same with harps.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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jbone
361 posts
Jul 12, 2010
3:56 AM
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"if it sounds good, it is good".
too true. but for how long? i'm giving the 5 manjis i currently own a serious workout. age range from 8 months down to 5 months. no issues. NO issues. more volume for the same amount of work. ease of play from blow 1 to draw 10. i'm not a big overblower. i do quite a bit of high end 1st position and the manji in A and G both respond beautifully.
if hohner had come up with quality close to this 20 years ago i'd still be playing mb's. now they have competing harps at higher cost. why would i spend $15 or $20 more for a harp when i don't have to, considering the revolution suzuki is ushering in with vastly improved reed construction?
manji is top dog in my book, most bang for the buck. and potentially longest life.
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groyster1
210 posts
Jul 12, 2010
7:23 AM
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@MP
you are so right but the japanese make superior cars due to first rate quality control maybe suzuki is on the same track hohner may have the most lemons ootb
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JohnnieHarp
6 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:05 PM
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Some players like Adam, can effectively play marine bands OOTB (out of the box) with no or very little adjustment. Others need a Filisko. Most are somewhere in between. This is an amazing range of preferences however a similar phenomena is seen with sports equipment preferences (golf, skiing, tennis, cycling, etc). So it must be concluded that the subtle differences between individuals and their make up (anatomic, physiologic, neurologic, innate ability/coordination/muscle memory) impacts personal preferences and instrument performance significantly. The equipment design that works best, player to player, varies widely.
In terms of comparing harmonicas OOTB (out of the box), to do so and try and draw conclusions about the product line as a whole is folly in my opinion. I say this as someone who has learned to emboss reed slots, gap and shape reeds, thus has experienced the significant differences that small changes in these factors can impart on instrument playability. Small differences between the same harp in the same key can really affect a harps performance for an individual. I've seen reports of the same person reporting significant differences in various Manji's when they've received several new ones at once.
Of all the harmonicas I've bought, the nicest playing OOTB was a chinese made Suzuki Folkmaster. It's an inexpensive low tech made harp; NOT like the Harpmaster, Manji, et al. Whoever assembled the reedplates knew what they were doing. I got lucky on this one and wouldn't expect this to be a consistent experience amongst Folkmaster harps. Despite it being good OOTB, it benefited from further embossing and reed adjustment. And significant exterior smoothing.
The initial minimum that I would do before trying out a new harp for any length of time is to disassemble it, check reed alignment, lightly emboss the tip ¼ of the slots of draw reeds 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 and check/adjust the gaps as necessary on all 20 reeds. From start to finish this would take me less than 30 minutes but would ensure reasonable performance initially. Subsequent to this, as time permitted, complete embossing and set up refinement can be completed. Also, exterior smoothing/customizing can be completed.
Without some initial work to standardize various harp models to individual preferences, comparisons between them is suspect. In my experience, this is especially true with harps that have higher degrees of hand assembly like the Hohners. I have found the Suzuki's to be incredibly consistent harp to harp in terms of construction and OOTB performance. This is likely due to automation during construction.
For instance, five key C Harpmasters will seem to play identically OOTB. But to determine whether a Harpmaster, Bluesmaster, Sp20, Marine Band, Manji is a preferred harp for me, some initial customizing is needed. Usually, I find the performance tends to be very close across the models once some adjustments are made UNLESS there are meaningful design differences such as reed design/dimensions or embouchure surface shape.
In terms of sound, while there are differences I "hear" when playing various models in the same key, when I listen to a recording I make while doing so, I don't hear a difference or if I do, it's not an important one. An objective third party would view all as sounding the same.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 12:14 PM
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walterharp
405 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:06 PM
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my manji in G sounds pretty good once it was worked over... just a bit of embossing and re-gapping.. however the side of the reed plate next to the comb on the blow plate had really deep scratch marks on the whole thing as if it was ground with a coarse grinder but never a fine to get those out. If it was on the other draw side it would be simple to fix, but don't really want to take out all the reeds to re-sand a reed plate. It probably is not enough to cause leaks... but who knows.
in any case, n=1
i used a very light amount of food grade silica lubricant on the comb to help the seal and it plays nicely now.
even before gapping, the blow bends on the top notes were as good as any harp ever out of the box, even the 10 is easy as pie to hit
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 12:08 PM
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JohnnieHarp
7 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:20 PM
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I find that with current good quality OOTB harps, the reeds that generally greatly benefit from some work are 1 to 4 draw. With a non-tongue blocked embouchure the other blow and draws seem to work OK. Customising does benefit these to smooth out air pressure response.
I'm currently working on an early 80s Sp20 I have and the reeds seem really "stiff" when playing. Much harder to bend. Must get a new Sp20 to compare it to. Not sure how much I can improve my older one.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 12:21 PM
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MP
672 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:06 PM
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all good points gentlemen!
but how in hell(walterharp) does one sand a reedplate? i work on harps and this is one of those trade secret mysterys.
any videos on this? thanks.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Joch230
238 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:11 PM
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http://www.harmonicasessions.com/oct08/Pollard.html
This shows sanding of reed plates.
-John
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beltone
36 posts
Jul 12, 2010
6:58 PM
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Bought a Manji after Brendan's trip to NOLA and think it is the best OOTB harp I've ever owned. Since I only have one I can't comment on consistency but know that I started buying the promasters for just that reason so I would expect the Manji to stack up in quality.
-Found the gap on most holes to be a little loose for me and had to tighten up a little.
-Overblows great all the way up to 6.
-OverDraws need work, or I do one of the two.
I still like my Harvey Harps better but I can see having a full set of Manji's in my bag at some point.
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-- BTMF --
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MP
678 posts
Jul 13, 2010
1:00 AM
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Joch230!! DUDE!! just spent waaay too much time checkin' out kinyas monster harmonica workbench series.
awesome! tons of customizing tips. thanks!
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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CaptJonHawaii
14 posts
Jul 15, 2010
12:55 AM
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I've have been slammed with the summer sailing season here so apologies for the late post....
A beginners opinion of the Manji....
First harp that I messed around with was a Horner BluesBand C in a cardboard box. Almost a year
ago actually.
Was having fun with it and decided to get another key. Thats when the reality of different harmonicas
hit me while looking around online. Called the local music store here and they said we have
LO and MBs. Went down and got a couple of each in different keys to try. Each felt different. but were
so much better than the BluesBand.
After continuing to read reviews and opinions on all the different harps it seems like more of
an individual choice based on playing style, comfort, price, longevity, etc.
I set aside a budget to try some different harps to see how each one feels and plays for me.
More on the feel side since playing is still on the drawing (yes pun) board.
So i got one of each, Manji, Crossover, GM, Firebreath, Seydel 1847, Promaster, Seydel Solist Pro, SP 20, and a Turboharp.
I figured even if I don't like them at first, as I develop, each will be fun to play so it didn't seem like throwing
money away. The all have good reviews.
Two stood out the most as I tried them all out at the same time for the first time. The Manji and the GM.
All the the rest are great and Im enjoying the personality of each one but I really like the Manji's. They 'play'
and feel great to me. This might change in time. Like surfing, put a great surfer on a piece of shit board
and he/she will use their experience and ability to surf with it. I understand this, but a good board is much more
fun to ride and grow into.
The point of all this is to hopefully help other beginners to try a lot of different harps to find what feels good. Its so easy
to get confused by all the choices and opinions. All are helpful so here is mine.
One of my bad habits so far is squeezing the harp too much so I made a modification. This also tightened the
coverplates on the comb in the front of the harp. When the plates bend in the back, the front opens up. see pics
Question? What is the second hole for behind the hole for the cover plate screws? see pic
Nice to see the vid of replacing welded reeds. Thanks JohnnieHarp and MP for posting Brendan's vid.
Aloha,
Jon
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 AM
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JohnnieHarp
13 posts
Jul 15, 2010
7:16 AM
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>Question? What is the second hole for behind the hole for the cover plate screws? see pic
Two thoughts here:
1. The Manji reed plates can be swapped onto Harpmaster, Bluesmaster, etc, combs and coverplates. Tried this and it works.
2. I surmise that the reason the comb is also drilled is to allow the Manji cover plates to be drilled and the coverplate screw to be moved back away from the front of the harp where it can be a nuisance to some players. Personally, I don't like the forward location.
Also, the drilled Manji comb may allow for swapping other Suzuki reed and cover plates on to the comb. Just thought of that but haven't tried it. But will ...
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2010 7:17 AM
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chromaticblues
155 posts
Jul 17, 2010
5:20 AM
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I have two Manji's in "C" and "D" that I have customized. I would sell each for $100! They are both tuned to JI tuning. I embossed the slots and made the comb flush with the plates. Set the reeds and tuned them the same way I tune my Marine Bands.
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2010 5:38 AM
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groyster1
235 posts
Jul 17, 2010
9:02 AM
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Capt Jon
you made quite an investment in testing the waters--that is the problem with buying harps--you have to buy them---word of mouth in the forum has been helpful to me and have made suzuki my harp of choice over hohner maybe Ill take the plunge someday and invest in a custom
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jonlaing
5 posts
Jul 20, 2010
4:40 AM
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I love my Manji (Key of A). I have several several Seydel Blues Sessions that I've tweaked a little... mostly gapping, and also a Marine Band that I've gapped. OOTB the Manji was better than all of them. Then once it was tweaked it was easily the best harp I had ever played (Though I just ordered a Harrison, so I'm assuming that will change in a few months). Everything just kind of works on it. The OB's are nice and clean, the high register is squeak free (unlike my Seydels... probably need to get some wax on those suckers). If you're on the fence about it, I definitely recommend.
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Brendan Power
59 posts
Jul 20, 2010
5:56 AM
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>Question? What is the second hole for behind the hole for the cover plate screws?
Johnnieharp is right: it's to enable swapping between other Suzuki reedplates/combs/covers.
The Manji reedplates will fit on all Suzuki combs, but you'll need to drill the front comb holes if you want to fit the Manji covers as well. The Manji plates also have an extra screw at the rear centre, which you can drill if you want. All other reedplate screws will match perfectly.
If you want to go the other way and put other Suzuki covers and reedplates on the Manji comb it's even simpler, no drilling required.
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Ant138
501 posts
Jul 20, 2010
6:39 AM
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Ive just found out im being demoted at work due to the current economic climate(i'm a Civil Servant here in the U.K.) which means a big loss of earnings for me.
So to cheer myself up i've just ordered a Manji in G from Mandoharp in Australia. The harps are listed on Ebay and are alot cheaper to buy and ship from Australia to the U.K. all in all with shipping it cost £44 which is a great saving.
I hope the Manji is as good as people have said as i'm a die hard Seydel 1847 fan but may need to rethink due to the cost and the fact i have been "put back into the Business" as my employer so kindly puts it.
I definatly have the Blues today :o(
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Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2010 6:39 AM
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chromaticblues
157 posts
Jul 20, 2010
7:16 AM
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@Brendon Power
I don't know alot about Suzuki harps, but I know the Manji and another harp have long slots.
1. What is the other harp?
2. what are the reeds made of?
3. Are the reeds and reed plates the same on these two harps?
If they are different could you explain the difference.
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Rubes
79 posts
Jul 20, 2010
10:13 AM
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Hey Ant, good move with Mandoharp,Dane's a top bloke with very personal service...I get all my harps from him now. PS, your boss is a shit!
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2010 10:14 AM
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tookatooka
1552 posts
Jul 20, 2010
10:53 AM
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@Ant138. Sorry to hear that Ant. Things are really going to be tough for a lot of us with the way things are going. Doesn't look good does it. Let us know how you get on with the Manji?
I wonder if our retailers will bring their prices down due to the economy? They were quick enough to stick em up when the going was good.
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Ant138
502 posts
Jul 21, 2010
12:07 AM
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Thanks for the kind words guy's @ Rubes, you're right my boss is shit, he just happens to be the government.
As for prices going down, i doubt it. The VAT is going up to 20% come the new year:o( (on the bright side , if the Manji is a good harp i might slowly start buying a full set from Mandoharp, at that price the Manji seems like a bargain) I think i need to brush up on my busking skills to earn some extra cash lol!!!!
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Brendan Power
60 posts
Jul 21, 2010
12:48 AM
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To answer chromaticblues:
"I don't know alot about Suzuki harps, but I know the Manji and another harp have long slots.
1. What is the other harp?
The Fabulous
2. what are the reeds made of?
Phosphor Bronze
3. Are the reeds and reed plates the same on these two harps?
Yes, the reed lengths, material and profiles are the same, but the Fabulous comes Just Tuning and Tempered options (The Manji is Compromised).
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