Here's my Manji experience , people were raving about this harp , I got mine and it was a bad one .I already have my favorite harp ,so I am not in search of the "magic harp" , the only reason I bought the Manji was because I was really curios about a long slot Suzuki harp.
My conclusion of this experience is that , there is no mass produce harmonica that is gonna be consistent OTB , that you gonna buy it for $50 and you gonna be able to overblow it OTB ,hopefully the B-radical will prove me wrong , but that is not gonna come with a price tag of $50.
Here's a sloppy video review:
Now, what's wrong with the harp is the fact that the guy that worked on this one gaped the hell out of the reeds , almost bend them out of shape , he messed up the curvature of the reeds , and from my limited experience , I think it will be almost impossible to reshape them the way I want them ( especially on phosphor bronze reeds) , pretty much straight
This is the 9 hole draw
The other guys were complaining about the 3 hole , mine had the same problem , the tuning was ridiculous , he tried to get the reed sharp , than flat and I assume that at one point , out of patience or out of time he got some deep indentation at the bottom of the reed , you can also see the indentations on some other reeds . The picture is not quite relevant but the marks are deep , not a fine filing mark
Great job with the review and sorry your Manji wasn't any good. You can see your disappointment in the video; you look like a kid who just had his candy stolen.
I was flipping back and forth on what harp to get next and I think now I'm going to try a Seydel.
Good review thanks for sharing. Funny that you mention the case it comes in. I have a suzuki bluesmaster and it rattles like a mofo in the box, so annoying when it's in my pocket you can hear me coming or going, lol.
---------- ~Ryan Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
The A,G, and E were pretty good OOTB but the Key of C was exactly as you explained. The 2 hole and 3 hole sound and react exactly as you describe. I regapped the 2 hole and 3 hole and it is better but still alot of issues with bending. I was really disappointed as well. I also have Sp20's and Harpmasters and they are alot easier to work on.
On a positive note: Straight Chords have a nice rich tone. The 1 hole and 4 hole up to the high holes for the C were nice.
i just dont understand folks who pin their hopes and dreams on a new model of anything. maybe i learned this lesson growing up in the motor city, but we figure it takes a year for any manufacturer to get the kinks and bugs out. sorry for sorin that he scored a bad one.
I spent another hour looking at the 2 hole and 3 hole of the C harp and I was able to adjust it and it is now playing GREAT!
The tip of the 2 and 3 hole reeds were arced right at the very tip and the basic gapping I do would not correct that. I had to get a dental pick and push the reed up as I reshaped the tip to be straight. Now the 2 hole and 3 hole are playing very nice and all the bends are effortless. Like I mentioend above this harp really has a sweet tone to me and I really like it. It is very responsive and loud.
Sorin Thanks for posting the YouTube. I compared the pictures of your reeds to the reeds on my Manji and mine don't show the markings nor the type of scratches yours does.
Suzuki customer service and their customer service guy, Os Leguisimo, is very accommodating and would took care of the problems with no hassle at all.
having just got a manji in A and had it out the other night live, i can say only that it performed as i wanted it to. it is much louder than any of my other stock harps and all reeds sound out right from low to high.
i guess any manufacturing process has a few that end up with a glitch. i do think that if suzuki gets enough feedback on these issues you guys are talking about, they will act to correct the problem.
Hi sorin, I'm so sorry that the Manji didn't come up to your expectations after all the hype and excitement after its launch. You must have felt you were dealt a rotten hand when you opened the box and tried to play it.
I understand you are going to return the harp so that Suzuki can explain how this one got through their strict Quality Control? Please do make them aware that there are many Suzuki players who will be watching how they respond to this issue and our next purchase will largely depend on the outcome.
It may be an idea to email Brendan Powers and ask him to suggest who at Suzuki you could contact to resolve this for you. I hope you will be satisfied soon with either a refund or a top class Manji, otherwise Suzuki will have to suffer the poor publicity which will get around the harmonica community very quickly. As the harmonica companies depend on word-of-mouth recommendations for their products they really should pay attention to what their customers are saying.
I am gonna keep it short , the Manji got sent back to Suzuki and they send me a replacement , that was as bad as the first one , with absolutely the same problem , reeds bent way out of shape , I think both harps were part of the same batch ( everything happened back in October in a span of a couple of days) , both harps had something that I have never seen before in a harp , heavy scratches on the bottom of the reed ( hence my theory that they might use (shove) some kind of shim to hold the reed while tuning ,and it might be something wrong with that thing.....you'll see the scratches on one of the photos). I am gonna leave it at that with this bad luck.
I invested a couple of hours to fix the reeds , and I turned the harp into a 90% of what I expect from a harp. For me it was a learning experience so no hard feelings....it was very difficult to straighten the phosphor bronze reeds they behave so much different than the brass reeds.
Next some photos , and some measurements:
- 1 hole draw C harp slot length : Manji 16.55 mm , Sp20 16.65 mm
- Manji
comb length: 100.45 mm comb width : 6.3 holes : 4 mm
The plates are very well fixed to the comb with 8 screws:
In the second photo you can see the scratches on the bottom of the reeds ( all of them)
The comb is very nice , it doesn't feel like plastic , it feels more like a composite material :
To answer some question about the plates fitting the Bluesmaster/Harpmaster/Delta Frost plastic combs:
-the plates and plastic comb prepared for the Bluesmaster covers ( notice that you can only use 7 screws)
-Bluesmaster covers fit perfect
-the plates and plastic comb prepared for the Harpmaster( notice that you can only use 3 screws ....this is one of the thing that is different between Bluesmaster and Harpmaster , different number of mounting screws)
-Harpmaster covers will let the original Manji holes show
That's it with the photos.
A couple of personal observation
- there is no doubt this harps have the tightest tolerance of any stock harp I have ever own , but do not come not even close to a custom harp
- the reeds are centered perfectly ( compared to Hohner)
- the material that is used for the plates it's harder than the brass , and acts very different to embossing (I like it ,especially when it comes to embossing the top of the slot)
- the thing that puzzles me the most is the tuning of Manji , considering the look and the long reeds it looks they went after the marinebands players, traditional blues players ( the biggest market), but I think that the so called " compromise " tuning they used it's not gonna cut the mustard , it sounds just like any other ET harp .
Here's the tuning as posted by BBQbob in a different forum, maybe BBQbob can tell us where did he got this info:
To my ears it sounds just like any other ET harp , and that was the main thing that pushed me away from the Suzuki in the first place, of course for people that like ET this will not matter .
Some things that I have learned :
-that I do not dislike sandwich style harps, as long as they are well built , and Manji is very well built
-the most important thing that I have found out is that I very much prefer the brass reeds
-taking in consideration the tuning , the brass reeds factor , and the fact that a stock harp for me is just parts, and I rather pay $30 than $45 for that , I will not buy a Manji again.
Ps: sorry for the big photos , I noticed it only after I posted the thread
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 10:04 PM
I really hate to hear about the trouble with the Manji's. I read some good things about them and ordered 2 for Christmas (they are on backorder). I'm a new player and try to make sure the harps I get have got good reviews. Wish I would have read this first. O well you live and you learn.
Sorin, the one I have is a really good harp and your observations that it is clearly aimed at MB players, I would absolutely agree with, as well as how you've rated the slot tolerances compared to a custom harp is. The information on the tuning I got directly from Brendan Power himself and if this tuning was 100% true Et, the chords would sound harsher. Suzuki is already looking at other tunings, and along with an email I sent to Brendan that he has passed along to his bosses at Suzuki, as well as his own, I have already suggested that they put a version of it out in either 7LJI or 19LJI, and then they'd really have the ears of diehard MB players, and my customs are custom MB's. This has more of the feel and bite of an older MB. The comb, which is a composite of plastic with embedded wood chips, much like to polymer plastic comb used on the Seydel 1847 Silver reacts more like a wood comb that's been fully sealed. For my money, this is without a doubt, the best made Asian made diatonic I've ever played, and as a rule, I'm not a fan of those. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I think I know why they didn't come out with a JI for the Manji , because that would kill their "FABULOUS" project , which is a long slot JI tuned harp , priced at $220, it would make no economical sense for them to sell a long slot JI tuned for $45 . But the "FABULOUS" will get killed anyway by the BRADical .
The Fabulous also is available in ET as well. A custom MB from the Filisko guild of customizers (Joe Filisko/Richard Sleigh/Jimmy Gordon) goes for $180 apiece and it`s both a better harp and cheaper than the Fabulous. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I got my first Manji yesterday in the key of A. Haven't had time to play it much yet but my first experiences show it's a good harp. Very light and nice looking. It sounds great too, it's also loud and absolutely easy to bend. The coverplates look cool although they have no supports of any kind in the middle and are thus easy to crush. The comb material is cool - right in between plastic and wood.
What impressed me the most: the blow bends. They are absolutely amazing. Without breaking the harp in I get the smoothest blow bends ever. Even on the 10 blow.
What didn't impress me: Overblowing capability. I get a squealing 6 OB and after a couple of tries a 5 OB. No 4 OB so far....it may be partly due to the rather low key I chose. Guess I'll have to try a higher key next.
i'm not a blow bend guy as yet, but i do have to say,the 2 manji's i have performed better than ANY out of box harp i have ever had. they both went through pretty rigorous testing over the past weekend, 2 gigs in 2 nights. i don't know what may be going on with the ones like sorin got, i suspect there has been a real push at the factory to get a lot of them ready for shipping. not an excuse but a possible insight. i'd be upset if i got one like that too.
the output of my 2, volume wise, is far above other stock harps. tone wise i like how they sound. with a cm bullet and a bassman they really rocked for me but i also have played straight acoustic and through a smaller tube amp with the same very very good results.
i am past the "honeymoon phase" with these harps. i have discovered that you can stall a reed if you put too much air across it. solution is simple, play with less force and turn the amp up.
as for having no support on the back of the cover plates, i learned a long time ago not to squeeze a harp that hard. that open back makes for some really nice hand effects to shape the sound.
i for one will be getting more of these as finances permit. rather than buy cheaper harps with les bells and whistles and possibly shorter life span i am going to try and step up into a much better quality over all harp, and see how long they will last. with proper care- cleaning, playing with less force, etc.- i bet they will be around a long time in my case.
On the literature Suzuki packs the harp with, (which very few players EVER read), it says right on it not to grip the covers too hard or you'll crush them. If there was one design change I'd like to see on the Manji outside of the tuning, it would be the coverplate of the same shape, but using a much heavier stainless steel setup like what Seydel uses on the 1847's, and the opening in back a tad wider. That slightly more open back would make it play even louder.
I hope Suzuki does have a version in JI, which is what I suggested, because if they did, they're would be a ton of very interested tradtional blues players who use Marine Bands who'd be very interested in these harps.
BTW, Joe Spiers is already messing around with a custom version of these harps and I'd love to try one of those out. He also has the tooling necessary to replace an individual reed, as unlike all the other companies, Suzuki spot welds the reeds to the plate rather than use rivets. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I bought both an A and a D Manji from Rockinrons. He's great to work with. Unfortunately the Manjis I got are crap. I returned the first D harp because the 2 draw was so incredibly leaky. The new D had similar problems and when I really drew hard on the 2 or 3 the reed would actually stick and release with a repeated twangy sound. The A harp 7 draw was also totally unresponsive. I love my blues masters and was excited about the Manji. So, I sent them both back to Manji for repair. Just got them back. Now the A has major issues with the 2 and 3 draw and the D is the same as before. So, even with the repair folks tweaking and gapping, they still don't play correctly and the A is worse off than when I sent it in. And I don't expect that I should have to re-gap both harps at $45.00 a piece. Too bad, I had high hopes for the technology in these. But they're putting out a really inferior harp.
Just got a Low F Manji few days ago. Blow 7 was seriously out of tune, some -20 cents. Tuned it, hope it will stay in tune. Otherwise it seems like a decent harp. It plays very freely, as advertised. I sense a lot of energy in this harp, but I don't want to give any judgements before I've really worked it. Time will tell...
I have 2 Manji's and 3 Harpmasters. I think it's crazy to try and draw any conclusions on which is better from 5 harps. I can say this. The 2 Manji's played fine without any adjustment and I can do a 4,5,6 hole overblow without any adjustment. The A Harpmaster came and the 2 blow didn't sound at all. Adjusted that but it wasn't too long before two reeds went flat. Had to re-tune those. The Db Harpmaster was nice out of the box. The F Harpmaster had the 10 blow reed scooped weird...still sticks a bit. I could only overblow one hole of the 4,5,6 holes on any of Harpmasters. The Manji's are the better harps out of the 5 mentioned above.
"I think it's crazy to try and draw any conclusions on which is better from 5 harps"
Maybe in a scientific study, but from a personal taste perspective one is enough. Take cars for instance. I don't need to own 5 Chryslers to know they suck. one LeBaron that died @ 6 years was enough.
---------- The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2009 3:53 PM
