johan d
84 posts
Sep 11, 2017
4:02 AM
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Is there a way/position where you can play a complete Major scale, and a complete Minor scale on 1 harp?
Last Edited by johan d on Sep 11, 2017 4:20 AM
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nacoran
9603 posts
Sep 11, 2017
5:31 AM
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First position, starting on the 4 blow gives you a complete major scale for one octave. For example, on a C harp you can get the relative minor scale of A with a little bit of bending, either starting with a whole step, followed by a straight draw on the 3 and then just playing the rest straight, or by starting on the 6 draw and using the blow bend on ten to give you the B you need. Playing the G major scale on a C harp isn't hard either, just needing 1/2 step bend on the 2 draw, 2 draw/or 3 blow (same note) and then playing the rest straight.
Of course, the more you can bend, blow bend and overblow the more places you can do it. Someone like Howard Levy can play any major or minor scale on any harp. The notes are all there with the right technique, but it sounds like you are more interested in just finding a clean simple scale.
(A minor tuned harp will give you the same simple minor scale starting on 4 like a major tuned harp does on a major scale.)
Edited.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
Last Edited by nacoran on Sep 12, 2017 11:53 AM
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johan d
85 posts
Sep 11, 2017
5:50 AM
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Yes, I am asking this to get some ear training. If I can play a major scale and a minor scale on my harp, I get those sounds in my ear, and possible learn what funtion each note has in its scale.
Does the same simple clean major/minor scales are possible too in a chromatic way? Anyway thanks already Nacoran
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SuperBee
4941 posts
Sep 11, 2017
7:24 AM
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3rd position
Major
1 +2 2' 2 3" 3 4' 4
Minor
1 +2 2" 2 3" 3' +4 4
Had to edit to get my 7ths around the right way
Last Edited by SuperBee on Sep 11, 2017 7:26 AM
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timeistight
2200 posts
Sep 11, 2017
8:23 AM
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You can play a one octave natural minor scale, without bends or overblows, from 6 draw to 10 draw. If you want to compare the sound of the natural minor scale to its parallel major scale, use a harmonica a sixth higher and play from four blow.
For example, use a low F to play a D natural minor scale and a D to play a D major scale. Or use a G harp to play an E natural minor scale and an E harp to play an E major scale.
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johan d
86 posts
Sep 11, 2017
9:38 AM
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@nacoran
on a C harp you can get the relative minor scale of A with a little bit of bending, either starting with a whole step, followed by a half step bend on the 3 and then just playing the rest straight...
That should be: ...starting with a whole step, followed by a normal draw on the 3... Right?
@superbee
3rd position - Major
1 +2 2' 2 3" 3 4' 4
+2, means overblow?
Last Edited by johan d on Sep 11, 2017 9:38 AM
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SuperBee
4942 posts
Sep 11, 2017
2:48 PM
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Johan, + means simply "blow"
' means half step bend
" means whole step bend
"' means step and half bend
One of the strengths of 3rd position is that you can play major or minor in low Octave.
In high Octave, first position you can't quite do it without an overdraw 9. If you can play overdraw 9 (shown below as 9*)
major
+7 8 +8 9 +9 10 +10' +10
Minor
+7 8 +8' 9 +9 9* +10" +10
5th position
Major (needs 4 overblow, shown as +4*)
+2 2' 3"' 3" 3 4' +4* +5
Minor
+2 2' 2 3" 3 +4 4 +5
I like Timeistight's advice to try 2 different harps a sixth apart, it would be good to use the harps suggested in the post, as the 2 scales would be in the same Octave.
The 2 examples given in the post are probably the most common harps with which it works.
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nacoran
9605 posts
Sep 12, 2017
11:50 AM
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Use the layout chart for the harp you have. Here is one I did for the C harp.
(more in next post)
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Nate
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Last Edited by nacoran on Sep 12, 2017 11:51 AM
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nacoran
9606 posts
Sep 12, 2017
11:52 AM
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Yes, correct, I mistyped.
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Nate
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nacoran
9607 posts
Sep 12, 2017
12:02 PM
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And Timeistight is right, for ear training you can get the minor scale from 6 draw without bends.
You can also, by looking at the lists of notes in each scale (whether it's major, minor, harmonic minor, etc., or whatever key) figure out any scale. For ear training on any scale that you need a bend of any sort on, I'd suggest either using a tuner or using something like HarpNinja. I like HarpNinja better, since it visually shows you on the screen where you are on the harmonica. I probably should break it out and practice my whole step bends. I know I'm a bit sloppy on some of them.
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Nate
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johan d
87 posts
Sep 13, 2017
5:00 AM
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@timeIs Tight
You can play a one octave natural minor scale, without bends or overblows, from 6 draw to 10 draw.
Correct and thanks for the tip. only downside; my (7) 8 9 10 blow/draws sound not as nice as the lower part of my harp (Maybe it is just my skill). I also need a lot more air/power to get the correct tones out of those high holes.
Last Edited by johan d on Sep 13, 2017 5:02 AM
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Maraboy
26 posts
Sep 13, 2017
7:34 AM
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@timeistight
"You can play a one octave natural minor scale, without bends or overblows, from 6 draw to 10 draw."
How come? In C harp 6 drew is A so starting your A-minor scale. 7th note in that A-minor scale is G# but hole 9 blow is G or what do you mean, mara
"You can play a one octave natural minor scale, without bends or overblows, from 6 draw to 10 draw."
How come? In C harp 6 drew is A so starting your A-minor scale. 7th note in that A-minor scale is G# but hole 9 blow is G or what do you mean, mara
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Maraboy
27 posts
Sep 13, 2017
8:51 AM
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Sorry timeistight is right I was thinking a harmonic minor scale not a natural minor. So the A-Minor scale is the only one with can be played on piano using the "whites" only. So for the "minor song" from key of X you have to use harmonica X + one and half steps. However I'm using a harmonica witch is one whole step lover than the song to better benefit from lower end of harp. So Song from A-minor I use G-harp and the as the holes the scale is:
-1,+2,-2",+3 (or-2),-3",-3',+4,-4 (easy bendings) and best thing is that you can get A-minor chord just drewing holes (4,5,6). Also all notes belong to A minor scale except 7th hole drew, mara
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timeistight
2201 posts
Sep 13, 2017
9:15 AM
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I suggested the first position major and fourth position natural minor scales because they don't require bends. Natural note scales are better for ear training.
On the other hand, i think the best way to learn scales is on a keyboard where you can both hear and see how they differ from each other. You can also use the keyboard to check your intonation on the harmonica.
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Andrew
1645 posts
Sep 13, 2017
9:15 AM
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[edited, with apologies to superbee] Starting on the 1-draw in 3rd position you can play harmonic minor, natural minor and melodic minor scales, without overblows.
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Andrew.
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Last Edited by Andrew on Sep 13, 2017 3:28 PM
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Tuckster
1650 posts
Sep 13, 2017
9:56 AM
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No sense avoiding bending,as that's something you're always going to need.
Cmaj- 1+ 1 2+ 2" 2 3" 3 4+
A relative min- 3" 3 4+ 4 5+ 5 6+ 6
If you have a chromatic it's much easier since the notes stay in one place.
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SuperBee
4950 posts
Sep 13, 2017
2:05 PM
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We are a funny group of people. Years ago I saw one of Adam Gussow's videos in which he said you wouldn't be a harp player unless you were at least a little bit crazy. At the time I wondered if he was putting it on, but recently I've become convinced. The fact of taking such an instrument seriously is all the proof needed.
I suggested 3rd position low Octave because you can hear the difference between major and minor in same key and how the bends in 2 draw and 3 draw sound when in tune, but of course it does require some skill.
Andrew, btw while I think of it, I don't understand your post. How can you play 3rd position scales starting from 2 draw?
Anyway,
I recall playing just the 1st 5 notes of different scales as an exercise to get this sense of hearing major/minor.
You can do this,
maybe starting with 2nd position
2 3" 3 +4 4 +4 3 3" 2 (major) then
2 3" 3' +4 4 +4 3' 3" 2 (minor)
Then 3rd, in same fashion, just first 5 notes up and back
Major 1 +2 2' 2 3" 2 2' +2 1
Minor 1 +2 2" 2 3" 2 2" +2 1
1st major +1 1 +2 2" 2 2" +2 1 +1
Minor not available without overblow
4th major
3" 3 4' 4 +5 4 4' 3 3"
Minor
3" 3 +4 4 +5 4 +4 3 3"
5th
Major +2 2' 3"' 3" 3 3" 3"' 2' +2
Minor +2 2' 2 3" 3 3" 2 2' +2
There is a lot of good to be had from playing all those as an exercise. Not only will you learn to hear major/minor, and the difference between an in tune note and a 'bend', but also you'll learn the root note for 5 positions and if you also take note of the 'note names' you'll never have to worry about stickers and charts to remind you which harp plays which key in which position, and you'll be able to follow chord changes.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Sep 13, 2017 2:55 PM
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Grey Owl
820 posts
Sep 13, 2017
2:26 PM
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Nice exercises Superbee. Thanks
YouTube
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SuperBee
4954 posts
Sep 13, 2017
3:02 PM
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Cheers Grey Owl, it's one of the exercises Jimi Lee showed me a few years ago to help open my ears and get some activity in the synapses (is that what synapses do?)
(I noticed an omission in the 2nd position major which I've just edited to correct.)
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Andrew
1646 posts
Sep 13, 2017
3:28 PM
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Sorry, I meant 1 draw. I've amended my post now.
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Andrew.
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Last Edited by Andrew on Sep 13, 2017 3:29 PM
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Maraboy
28 posts
Sep 14, 2017
2:35 AM
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My proposal is that from now on we put + in front of blow holes and - in front of drew holes, no spaces nor commas. We can call it "marastandard" when necessary, but this will newer be the case ;o). So A-minor scale on G-harp is:
-1+2-2"+3-3"-3'+4-4 Short and simple standard on this for coming generations, mara
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Andrew
1648 posts
Sep 14, 2017
3:37 AM
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Harmonic Minor: -1+2-2"+3-3"-3'-4'-4-4'-3'-3"+3-2"+2-1
Melodic Minor: -1+2-2"+3-3"-3-4'-4+4-3"-3'"+3-2"+2-1
Natural Minor: -1+2-2"+3-3"-3'+4-4+4-3'-3"+3-2"+2-1
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Andrew.
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Last Edited by Andrew on Sep 15, 2017 2:40 AM
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timeistight
2202 posts
Sep 14, 2017
7:19 AM
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Andrew
1650 posts
Sep 14, 2017
9:18 AM
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Rationale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_scale
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Andrew.
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tmf714
3105 posts
Sep 14, 2017
9:26 AM
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Both can be played in 2nd postion-Pentatonic scale .
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