Does a Suzuki Manji leans towards a Marine Band or rather SP20, or Lee Oskar Harp when it comes to rounded edges and playing comfort? Does a Manji have a wooden comb? Looking for a Bb harp and maybe want to try this brand
Last Edited by johan d on Mar 13, 2017 12:27 AM
Closer to a Marine Band in design and sound. The comb is a composite plastic that looks, feels and vibrates similar to wood. Edges are rounded a bit more than a Marine Band but not much. Reeds are thicker and stronger and have a more robust and fuller sound but are thus harder to bend and not as easy to play (Like 9's VS. 12's for guitar stings). All reedslots are cut by lasers which means there are no blades to become dull making slots bigger as the blades wear, so quality control with Suzuki is more consistent than any other brand. In the end you will have to spend some time on the harp before you fall in love with it. It wasn't an easy switch for me coming from Honers but I would never go back now.
---------- www.mooncat.org
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Mar 13, 2017 9:43 AM
I think Jason's take on them is one of the best I've heard.
I have a set of manjis that I did quite a bit of work on. They took some time to grow on me aswell.
Lately I've been playing Seydel mostly. I find that Seydels reed feel is a bit lighter than Suzuki, but still much heavier than Hohner. I like the heavier feel, you can really grab ahold of them, if that makes sense. It really feels like your pulling on something when you hit a bend. Even if you play lightly. Once you get used to this Hohners feel like there is something missing.
I still love my Marine Bands, but I think Seydel is the sweet spot for me personally.
Johan D. If you have the means to do so, I recommend you try one of all the major models to see what you like. Manji is surely a quality instrument, but "which harmonica is for you" is a very personal thing.
Suzuki reeds are MUCH more durable than Hohner reeds. They also have a more focused tone/timbre to my ear, which I like.
Last Edited by hvyj on Mar 13, 2017 3:51 PM
I bought a set from Rockin Ron's. Out of the box, not so good. After working on them, probably due to my skill level of customizing, I am still on the fence with them. I'm thinking of buying one custom a month for a year and have a full set in 12 months backed by a professional. Just a thought.
I agree that Moon Cat covered it well. The issue with harps (mics & amps) is how YOU perceive sound. Manji's are great out of the box, play easily, and last well. So the questions are whether you're focusing on single note playing, chords, or a mix; then if the sound of even tuning, just intonation, or compromised tuning resonates for your ear. Personally, after 45 years with "the other guys" (Hohner, Seydel, Lee Oscar, Bends, etc) I prefer Manji (6 years) but I have Gary Lehmann (gnarlyheman@gmail.com) retune every one of them because I prefer "just-compromise" tuning for the way I play.
I lost this post earlier. The Manji was designed by Suzuki's head harp guy, whose name is Manji Suzuki. He wanted a harp that blew the Marine band away, and he made it happen. Looking at a Manji and a MB side by side there are a lot of similarities. For my money Mr. Suzuki firmly kicked Hohner's butt here. Superior reeds is at the heart but a resin/wood composite comb and multiple screws holding the plates on, plus replaceable reed plates priced competitively, carried the day for me.
I always wanted a good ootb harp I did not have to mess with. Manji is it. This harp takes a pretty fair beating and lasts very well for my money. Sure I blow a reed here and there and sure the reeds sort of flatten out some after say 2 years but that's acceptable.
If I have to work on a harp when it's new I don't buy it. I have yet to do anything to a Manji outside of play it and keep it clean. This is my go to harp. ----------
The Manji leans more toward a customized Marine Band 1896. The Classic MB 1896 is the foundation upon which most of the earliest custom harps were built. Customized Marine Bands have combs that have been flat sanded and sealed. The covers are open in the back. The sharp corners and edges have been rounded and shaped. And it is a common practice for customizers to replace the nails that hold the covers on with a single screw on either end placed at the front of the harp. Manjis have a composite comb that is part wood and part resin. The resin makes it waterproof. The fact that Suzuki uses wood instead of nearly any other material available is an indication that they are trying to retain the traditional tone of a wood comb. All the lines on the Manji are rounded and smooth. And a single screw at the front of the harp secures the covers on either side. All of this is a nod to popularity of the custom Marine Bands produced by the top customizers. Manjis are tuned quite a bit differently than Marine Bands. Marine Bands use Modern Compromise Temperament. The Manji compromise tuning is very close to Equal Temperament. The construction of Manji reed plates is vastly superior to Hohner reed plates. The reeds are centered in the slot better on a Manji. The reeds are flatter. The plates are gapped better at the factory. And OOTB Manjis are closer to their intended tuning from the factory than Hohners are to their intended tuning. The reeds on Manjis are made of Phosphor Bronze and are welded to the reed plate. Hohner uses Brass Reeds and secures them to the reed plate with rivets. If you are looking for a stock harp with no modification, upgrades or customization, I would give the nod to the Manji. If you are someone who works on your reed plates, it is a toss-up. Both are very good building blocks to make high performing harps. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 13, 2017 3:44 PM
Realizing that it's time I started learning to service and tune my own harps, I just ordered a complete set of tools from Richard Sleigh to get started doing that. I have always been curious about the Manji, since hearing others here praise them, and seeing the customized ones Tom sells. After seeing Jason in Harrisburg recently, and marveling at his case full of Tom's customs, as well as being blown away at the sound he produces with them, I'm now also determined to give them a try. Reading here that the reeds offer more resistance than the Hohner GM I'm used to, and that they are welded rather than riveted, two questions come to mind. One from a playing perspective, and the second from a maintenance perspective. Does the added resistance provide more physical feedback to the mouth, throat, and diaphragm, making them more accurately controllable when doing things such as a warble with a sweeping bend? The second question is: Can the average person with mechanical and machinist skills learn to cleanly remove a broken reed, and replace it with a screwed on reed? Also was wondering what improvements Tom is able to add with his customization. Having owned some of his custom GM harps, I'm spoiled and prefer to save up for one that plays much better than OOTB. Hopefully, as my skills grow, I'll some day be able to perform some of the magic Tom is famous for.
Can someone speak to how the Manji design lends itself to high vs low harps? I ask because I only have one Manji but it's an F. I like it plenty but I'm not far from the Gussow school of maintenance, ootb or adjust if you have to (gap/tune). Hard to beat Crossovers but I think I'd benefit long term from the strength of Manji reeds. So, any thoughts across the range of keys?
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 14, 2017 3:59 AM
Garlic Breath. Thank you for the kind words. Regarding your question about resistance and feedback. Personally, I cannot feel the difference between the Suzuki Phosphor Bronze reeds and the Hohner Brass reeds. I look at it this way. Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that there IS a difference. If you are a harmonica player, either you have chops or you don’t. Our own Adam Gussow prefers OOTB Marine Bands with little or no customization other than gapping the reeds. That’s what he learned on. That’s what he likes. And he has developed the chops to make it work for him. Adam has told me that if he plays custom harps too long, which are much easier to play, he begins to lose his chops and he doesn’t like that. Lots of very good harp players play nothing but OOTB harps.
I attended one of Ronnie Shellist’s Hohner Road Shows a couple of years ago. In the show, Ronnie demonstrates many of the different models Hohner makes and he uses all stock harps, just like the people attending the workshop can buy from the music store hosting the Road Show. No customs. At the show I attended, one of the people in the audience asked Ronnie, “Well, what about this harp?” And he held up the free harmonica he had received just for attending the show. It was a $3.00 Hot Metal or some other Chinese piece of junk harp. To his credit, Ronnie played that harp and he made it sound good. He muscled that harp. He imposed his will on it. Ronnie Shellist has chops to spare. However, if he had to do a complete performance on harps of that quality, first the performance would probably be somewhat lacking and second, you would have to carry him out on a stretcher by the end of the night. My inability to perceive a difference in the resistance between a Hohner reed and a Suzuki reed is probably my shortcoming. Lots of people have more sensitive ears that I do and hear things that I can’t hear. Maybe feeling the resistance of a reed is similar. I dunno.
As far as repair work. If you have reasonable skills, it will not be a problem. You would simply have to drill a hole and use a screw to fasten the new reed. Some precision is in order, but it is not rocket science.
As for the magic I perform on the harps I build. Its is not magic. Its just the basics. If you look at any of the listings for harps on my website you will see a description of what I do.
---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 15, 2017 7:10 AM
Littoral – the Manji has long had the keys of Low F through Hi F#. A couple of years ago they added the low Keys of C, D, E and Eb. These harps have an oversized bottom cover to eliminate the issue of reed rattle or reed strike. They have since shifted the low F over to this design meaning that when you order a low F from Suzuki, it will come with the oversized bottom cover. It is not really necessary on the low F, but that’s what they do. So the Manji, from top to bottom, is a very attractive alternative to the Marine Band Crossovers and Marine Band Thundrebirds. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Tom, Thanks for all this great Information you are sharing. Since I like full cover plates I am very fond of my set of Suzuki Olives. They have a wood resin comb and welded reeds. How do they differ from a Manji?? The only time I had a reed go out in the last 2 years, I just bought a new reed plate from R Ron. He suggested a Manji plate. Is it the same plate and tuning???
I just realized, a lot of players these days have come up learning to tweak their harps. I did not, in the 70's a custom harp was as unheard of as a cell phone. In intervening years I managed to play on a lot of loud stages and blow out a lot of reeds due to bad habits and misconceptions. Also did some harm to my ears and even voice. In about the mid 90's I began seeing stuff about tweaked harps, but I have always had a resistance to spending hard earned cash on instruments that need more work, brand new. Instead, I tried a simple reseal operation on some MB's, which involved beeswax and drills, taps, sandpaper, etc. I must stress that beeswax is NOT a good candidate for sealing. It's very flammable when heated and can cause bad burns (I was lucky). All in all the work of getting a better seal on a MB was good but the reeds- partly due to my bad habits!- failed more quickly than ever. A better seal meant I did not need to draw as hard and it was a hard habit to break. My hearing loss probably has been a big reason that I couldn't retune a reed worth crap. That's always going to be true since I have some mid range hearing loss. On custom harps, built by one of the many who are good at it- I just couldn't spend my hard earned blue collar cash on a set, then also have to wait for repairs when I blew a reed. I do have one custom MB in C which I treat carefully and use just sometimes to extend its life.
All that said, my answer has been Manji harps. Luckily I have always been able to adapt to ootb harps over most of my 40+ years of messing with these tin sandwiches. It has been EASY for me to play Manjis. ----------
I started off with SP20's, and they're still a good harp...bought some LO's, a few Seydels and a few other Hohner products before discovering Manjis. Tried one...bought the full set. Wouldn't part with them. I've only had to take one apart to remove a moustache hair that jammed a reed. Have never blown out a reed on a Manji. Like everyone on this forum will tell you, it all boils down to a matter of personal preference in feel, tuning and your own ear. The biggest difference I noticed from the start was that Manji's were a little brighter than my other harps. Look at some of the guys above who love 'em...that should tell you something.
Last Edited by Raven on Mar 14, 2017 3:39 PM
I had one, key of C. Never found a compelling reason to get another. It was better than other Suzuki harps I've had, but I liked it considerably less than the other marine band types I have. I played it long enough for the 4 draw to go bad. Can't say I noticed it to be any more durable than my usual harps. The non-availability of individual replacement reeds is not the only reason they don't interest me, but on it's own is enough for me to rule them out.
I dunno, it's probably not cool to dig up old threads and quote from them. But you could do a search on this quote. It's from one of my favourite posts on MBH: "they have serious quirks when it comes to accurate tuning, that is a deal breaker for me and it is for serious players. Some players don't care, they don't know their harp is out of tune until they swallow a reed, and for some it's literally played until there's at least three out."
I've been watching this thread with interest, I'd been a Lee Oskar user for well over 30 years. I'd been put on to them as the best harp around in the 80's and was told Hohners were too variable at the time but in all honesty I wouldn't have been able to make real use of a decent harp. Now I've spent a bit on harps recently and have had a massive surge of enthusiasm to try and become the best player I can be. I've bought quality combs from Blue Moon and now that I've started into the overblowing and overdrawing and practicing and playing a lot lot more I think the Manji and other Suzuki harps are better made than either Hohner, Seydel or Lee Oskar. That said the Lee Oskars I have still work real well and I've set up a couple for overblowing. I like the sound of the Seydel Classic the best and they are a great overblowing harp out of the box but they're not as robust as the Lee Oskars and at about 3 times the price just not worth it. I've been buying Suzuki harps on eBay for around Australian $50 a harp posted to the door! about the same you'd pay for a Lee Oskar. They are a precision engineered piece of kit, but I'm going to need help getting them to overblow but I think it will be more than worth the journey. I was disappointed with the Crossovers, only got a year out of a G. The A and F are still fine. I find the Seydel are choking out more and more often, especially the G and A which had to have replacement reed plates after 10 or 12 months and my Bb has just blown now from heaps of practice on the middle solo in 515 unissued. So that is 3 of the 4 harps I bought. I tried FireBreaths and got my first overblows happening with those. I bought a few Hammonds too. Just checked and I've got 12 Manji's. Next up is to to get some the most used keys set up for overblowing by someone that does Manji's. Any suggestions? I'm in Australia but will send them to whoever it takes to get a good job.
Last Edited by John M G on Mar 15, 2017 5:24 AM
I prefer marine band or mb deluxe . I dont overblow so set up isnt a big deal
A Marine band has the tone I like and that the most important thing to me. Just like a Martin D18 is harder to play than a Taylor- the difference in sound is worth it to me. Give me the Martin and the MB and I will get by
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Mar 15, 2017 6:44 AM
Well I tried one once and never cared for it, so guess I didn't have the chops either. But maybe I should have kept playing it. They certainly are comfortable to hold, and they look very nice just stock.
I did not mean to imply that if you had a less than positive experience with Manjis that you did not have the chops to play them. I am sorry if I have misled anybody or offended anybody. My comments about chops were meant to apply to all harps – not just Manjis. Personally, I do not notice any difference in the response of a Manji (Phosphor Bronze Reeds) vs. a Marine Band (Session Steel Reeds) vs. a Seydel Session Steel (Stainless Steel Reeds). Others say they can. I don’t doubt that. The fact that I can’t is my “shortcoming” - just like some people can hear tonal differences that I can’t. That said, is there a difference in reed “bendability” between a C harp and a G harp? Absolutely! It is much easier to draw bend the 1 or 2 on a C harp than on a G harp. It is also much harder to blow bend on pitch with an F harp than on a C harp. The size, length and thickness of the reeds make a big difference – even in the same brand. If you compare the Suzuki ProMaster reeds to the Manji reeds you will find that the ProMaster has shorter wider reeds than the Manji. In theory, this was intentional as the Manji was designed to be a “Blues” harp with every intention of competing with the Marine Band and/or Seydel 1847. Most agree that the longer thinner reeds of the Manji make bending easier.
Finally, even the best reeds plates (whatever they are), if they are not set up properly, can be difficult to bend on. Rest assured that I could take your favorite harp and in a matter of minutes make a few small adjustments and make you hate it. I could also take a harp you hate and in a matter of minutes, make a few small adjustments and make it more than acceptable and given some more time, make it one of your best harps. I am not alone in this. I would bet there are 30 or 40 guys on this site who could rightfully make the same claim. By and large, I find Manjis to be set up pretty good out of the box. There is room for improvement but in my opinion, having worked on hundreds of Marine Bands, Special 20s and Manjis, on average, I would say that the Manjis are set up better out of the box. However, it is a moot point since I make adjustments to them all, so the finished products are more or less comparable.
---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 16, 2017 10:38 AM
Speaking as a GM player, I was delighted when I purchased a Manji and will buy more, I have a Low F and A, gigging well with'em
I have NOT had them customised, all my GM's are, but to be honest I do not feel the need to spend more money on them. Very good product!!
Last Edited by harmonicanick on Mar 16, 2017 10:53 AM
As I had noted in the old thread I linked above, I think Manjis take a different attack than MBs or SP20s. Moon Cat's reference to different gauges of guitar strings seems to be a good analogy.
I have harps of each key available as back ups during gigs, and I have recently noticed that if I am playing a quiet and nuanced song, or a song where I use chords a lot, I tend to choose a Special 20 or Deak Harp Marine Band. If it is a hard rocking song played fast, I tend to use a Manji. I can use each brand for all types of songs, but this seems to be my unconscious decision when I reach for a key of harp.
For me, the Manjis do seem to hold up to abuse better than the Hohners. I have some Seydels, Delta Frosts and Eastops that I like, too, but the Manjis and Hohners are what I usually choose first.
It is great that this is a time when there are so many good harps available to choose. ----------
This thread inspired me to try the manji out. I have been playing Crossovers that I completely emboss, gap and retune to equal temperament.
I bought a manji in G and C. Having arrived yesterday I have done my typical set up on the G. Contrary to what a lot of the endorsers were saying, the manji OOTB was leaky and didn't OB or OD. I was disappointed because I can OB/OD on crossovers out of the box.
After setting up the G, the bend notes did feel a bit beefy in tone, however the OBs seem to be worse.
I decided to give them a month of tinker and play time. If I remember I'll try to follow through with my final impressions
all my manjis are OOTB........I own custom marine bands,pre war or star of david marine bands and Hicksville era marine bands.....you cannot beat them....that being said,my manjis are all OOTB....maybe not fair comparison.....but I definitely prefer JI tuning
@groyster Me too! It's hard not to retune harps at work, although I did tune Billy Branch's repaired Manjis and he did not complain (I didn't tell him). Diatonic harps sound better in JI.
I enjoy playing both Manjis and Crossovers. I gap and tune harps myself but I am no great tech. I have a couple of Spier's Hohners that are wonderful. I don't know who to send a Manji to for a similar workover.
