Does anyone else have trouble with the Manji? Maybe mine is just not setup right. I really want to like it. Ive had it for a while now. It's a great lil harp ... it just doesn't play right for me. I feel like the bronze reeds are harder to bend. Maybe if they made a brass reed version. Idk. I run outta breath faster playing it also. I feel that could be because its tighter than my MBs...even though that should have the oposite effect. Just wanted to know if im alone here or if I'm being stupid n not setting it up right or something. I play all marine bands now. Various models. The session steels i have i can play alright ... and my 1847 Noble is pretty good, but i feel like brass reed harps just flow better. ---------- I Hate to advocate Drugs, Alcohol, Violence, or Insanity to Anyone, But They've Always Worked for Me. •• Hunter S. Thompson ••
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 14, 2015 10:04 AM
It's "out-of-the-box harmonica syndrome". Manjis have a lot of potential but sometimes they are not quite perfectly set up from the factory.
You can get a generous bump in performance just by making them airtight. The stock comb is straightforward to flatten since you don't need to seal it afterwards. The draw reed plate is also easily flattened. Again, this is quite effective on a leaky Manji.
I offer a tool to also straighten the blow plate, too, but if you want to keep things simple, I recommend you start with that.
Once you make it airtight, I reckon you will be pleasantly surprised.
I have 7 manjis. I had to do some adjustments on each one of them. Mostly gapping really. But they all play pretty great now. I'm sure if a professional harpsmith had a look over them they could really make them sing, but for my purposes they are great. They bend pretty easily in my opinion.
I must be in denial. Every Manji I've bought and every reed plate I've replaced have been good experiences for me. Yes I do still flat a reed sometimes but as far as playability and longevity I am completely satisfied. A custom is some better. No other ootb harp I've ever used has been this good. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
Yea ive gapped it .. re gapped and gapped some more. And its 'ok'. And i can bend it .... i didnt mean to imply that i couldnt. Its just that i ll play it for a while and get used to it, but when i then go back to a MB it seems like water. Like note to note just flows sooo much better. Ofcourse everything is subjective. Im not knockin the manji. Like i said im tryin to like it. It seems like a very well made and designed harp. And for $35 .. thd features are just amazing. I think it boils down to the reed material. But ill try making it more airtight n keep messin with it. Maybe something will work. I just wanted to see if other people felt the same.
At the end of the day, if the Marine band works for you then go with it man! For me, personally, the manji works. But we are all different, and thankfully there are loads of different harps out there for us all. I mean it may... And I mean may... Be a bad one. I did have one c manji that was genuinely dodgy. It got sent back and the replacement was perfect.
I've had about five of them and I don't know if I just had some bad ones or what, but I didn't see any thing special about them. I can do less work on a special 20 to make it play the way I want for less money. Or maybe I've just had good luck with special 20's. They do look good though, but that isn't worth the extra dough in my book.
Thats my thoughts exactly harp study. I can do less work to get mb or sp20 to play. I think the bronze reed is just tougher. As is the stainless in the seydels. But if suzuki used brass i doubt they could weld the reeds. Them covers are sharp tho. ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 14, 2015 6:11 PM
I have and use other harps in my case, custom MB's, Big River, SP20, other Suzukis. The custom MB's are louder acoustically than the Manji but Manji is louder than other harps. Over 43 years I've used a lot of different flavors and brands. Sure the Manji costs a bit more, so does a Crossover or MB Deluxe. Which to me are Hohner's attempts to measure up to Manji. If Hohner had made a better MB a couple or three decades ago I'd have probably never left them. As it was I went on a quest to find the ultimate harp, and I went through several over many years. Manji has been the closest to ideal that I've found. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
jbone - not to nitpick, but the Hohner Marine Band Deluxe was introduced in 2005 - hence the model # being M2005 and the Crossover was introduced in 2009, hence the model # M2009. The Manji was introduced in 2010 and was clearly Suzuki's entry into the market to compete with the Deluxe and Crossover, not the other way around. Be that what it may, the Manjis are great harps (as are the Deluxe and Crossover). ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
I love to nitpick-- These harps come with a one year warranty, so if you have legitimate concerns call me at 800-854-1594 Tu-Thurs at extension 4410. And my understanding is that, although the Crossover came out in America before the Manji, the Suzuki model was offered for sale in Japan before the Hohner was available. Perhaps Steve Baker can shed some light on this subject; as he once told me personally (a great story, ask me), he was involved in the design.
That said, I think that it is clear that the Deluxe was Hohner's reaction to the fact that all the customizers were (and still do) disassembling the classic Hohner Marine Band 1896's, sealing the comb, replacing the nails with screws and opening up the back of the covers. I think that the Crossover was inspired, particularly the bamboo comb, in response to the fact that so many harp players were installing custom combs on their Marine Bands. Regardless of when the Manji first appeared on the market, it was Suzuki's response to the Marine Band in general - in all of it's customized forms. To my knowledge, prior to the Manji, Suzuki did not have anything that looked like a Marine Band style of harp. The Wood/Resin composite comb is somewhat revolutionary. Vented Covers (like the Marine Band) opened at the back. In my opinion, the single cover plate screws on either side of the harp are a nod to the style developed by Joe Filisko and other customizers who followed suit. All in all, it seems to me that Suzuki looked at the stock and custom Marine Bands and designed a harp that incorporated all the best features into it. It is a superbly engineered and well made harmonica. But there is no doubt about which came first - which, in the grand scheme of things, means absolutely nothing. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
In my experience the Manji has much tighter tolerences where the reed sits in the slot on the reed plate...for a mass produced harmonica it's quite amazing how little air space there is between the reeds...this makes for a very responsive harp for light playing UNLESS the reed is slightly off center or you are a 'wet" player that gets a lot of saliva into the harp. I have personally found that my Manjis get gunked up faster than my other harps and the reeds stick. Usually the problem is the reed jostled off center somehow or there is a microscopic piece of gunk sticking the reed to the slot...never happens with a marine band, say. My experience...I love them but don't use them as often as my other harps. I haven't yet found that "sweet spot" with them where I can play lightly and with a drier mouth. I'm working on it.
It never hurts to adjust gaps on any out of the box harp. But beyond that there are just small differences inherent in different brands of harp.
At first I had trouble with the 2 and 3 draw on Manjis as compared to Special 20s, then I figured out that the Manji just needs a slightly different attack than Special 20, MBD, and Crossover. Manjis are just a little different, but by playing them a while you adjust to the differences. I had a similar experience with Seydel Session Steels and 1847s.
At this point I can shift back and forth among brands and adjust for it without thinking. The adjustment is not conscious, it is one of those things we unconsciously learn to do when playing harmonica over time. It is similar to when you first went from a G harp to an F harp: you learned to adjust to the differences. Just my take on it... ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 15, 2015 8:42 AM
The late Richard Farrell is often quoted as saying something along the lines of "If you can't repair your own harmonica, you can't afford to play one." At least that's what Pat Missin says . . . I would suggest that the same is true for gapping and tuning, but I am available if you just can't handle it--
Last Edited by Gnarly on Dec 15, 2015 10:54 AM
Hah. Nah im good with the repair n setup for the most part. It s just ive never heard anything but praises about it. So it was kinda pissin me off. I played it for about 2 hours today n I'm liking it more already. Just knowin that its not just me. It just drives different. If that makes sense.
Anyone ever tuned a manji to MB tuning? Or 19 limit? ---------- 1.21 JigaWatts N' Punch It To 88
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 15, 2015 7:05 PM
I tune them until the chords sound right-- As I understand it, tune the roots and fifths to pitch, then adjust the thirds until you can stand the chords. Largely, that means to flat the thirds--but the one I just did for a customer here at Suzuki, draw 5 was not remarkably flat. That is important for anyone who plays 12th. He doesn't, but I think it's still better . . . it's easy to flat a note on harp, much harder to raise the pitch LOL So the dyad on draw 5 and 6 doesn't produce the right difference tone, but I don't think this customer will mind--it was mainly the bottom 4 draw and blow I needed to fix.
I do love a lively discussion! I bought the whole idea of Manji from the git-go. Mainly the composite comb and laser aligned new recipe brass reeds. Truth is, I had not found anything close to a good MB in a lot of years, yet the MB at the time to me was a poor quality item, not worth the price. I adopted SP20 for years and blew out a lot of reeds. Big River. A couple of Huang models for a while. Hering 1923 Vintage. And a few more. By the time Manji came out I was ready for those revolutionary and timely improvements and I've not looked back.
Regarding different models and st7yles of attack on them, I've adjusted to so many different harps over so many years maybe I've just had my mind blown and can play anything and make it work. The question has always been longevity which translates to bang for the buck. Even if I was making steady music $$ I would be reluctant to replace harps or reed plates very often. I keep the Manjis- and other harps- fairly clean to keep saliva and stuff from collecting on them, and the last a good long while. We play acoustically a part of the year outdoors so I need a harp with very good projection, and Manji fits the bill. Of course in addition it works great amped as witnessed on our last CD, Nothin' But A Party.
My motto for some years has been, Raw, Real, and Right Now.
Yeah SuperBee, Doug has nailed it. We should bring out his comment every time we discuss different harps. Truth is most of the harps we discuss on here are all good products-unlike back awhile.
Prolly a good idea Stokes. Most of yall that have been here a while have prolly seen every topic there is beat to death n brought back up again. So i apologize if im bringin up old tired topics. ---------- 1.21 JigaWatts N' Punch It To 88
I recently purchased a few Manji's. I find them very comfortable to play. Their play-ability is great as well. I have not had them long enough to comment on their durability. I've always been a MB guy and probably will remain one, but the Manjis are pretty damn good in their own right. ----------
I got caught up in the Suzuki hype about a year ago and was curious about the short reed vs the long reed so I bought a Hammond and a Manji (Key of D?). I noodled a little OOTB and found them airy and heavy.
I immediately went to work on the plates and combs. My first impression was that the plates were assembled on the comb with unusually high torque. Once free they took on the shape of a banana although they were flat in the assembly.
They are very pretty inside and well made. Although straightening the plates was simple I gave up on the thought of switching over to them. Admittedly, I didn't give them much of a chance. They just didn't feel right so I gave the disassembled pieces to a known Suzuki enthusiast.
Later I bought a set of 5 Manjis to give them another go. I adjusted the gaps as needed and found the amount of work required on par with most OOTB harps I've tried. I practiced with them exclusively for 2 months and found that I preferred the 5-pack from another manufacturer which I had tested in the same manner and under the same conditions.
I still find the Manji's breathy. I also find that I rinse them more often than other brands. I am amazed at the consistant precision of the Manji's reed positioning and miniscule slot clearance. Perhaps this is why they require more care in my hands.
Someday I will lightly countersink the thread pooches (or preferably the comb clearance holes), flatten the plates, and spend more time adjusting the gaps. (I have done nothing about the reeds being buried at the rivet end since the first two turned out awful and I didn't want to mess with tuning.) Hopefully that will address the wayward air. They are a different beast.
@Killa. No need to apologize my friend, I just thought Doug made a good point about a different attack being needed for different harps. It's how I have found it to be. All the best buddy-Pete
I'm basically a Hohner guy, but have been impressed with the Manjis. Along with the Crossover and the Marine Band Deluxe, the represent a very worthwhile trend from the last decade of "pay more, get a better harmonica"
In particular, to my mind, the Manji out performs the SP 20, Big River, Lee Oskar a,d the cheaper Suzuki models. As it should, given the higher price. The measure for me is the amount of air needed to get it working. Sitting at home this might not be discernable, on a loud stage or demanding acoustic session it certainly is. ---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
"love old marine bands that are JI tuned....would love to hear how manji would sound tuned like that"- groyster1
rockin ron's sells very reasonably priced JI fabulous reedplates in D and low F.they fit manji's ,harpmasters,promasters,etc. ---------- www.shakeylee.com
@Stokes ... That comment wasnt necessarily directed at you Bro. Its all good. And i agree. To tell the truth when i got my first MB i wasnt a fan. I was playing mostly session steels. But the mb won me over eventually. Mostly i think, as ive said, because the thinner brass reeds seem to be more ply able. So they seem easier to manipulate. That being said ask me what i think about the manji next month, its bound to change. Lol.
"love old marine bands that are JI tuned....would love to hear how manji would sound tuned like that"
Here is a HarpMaster (using Phosphor Bronze reeds) tuned to Just tuning (1234 chord only... but you get the idea). At the 14:30 mark, you hear before and after tuning.
If anyone is interested, I have a set of Bb Manji reed plates that I have upgraded: Both Blow and Draw plates flattened, reed shape adjusted, and some other work including tuning. I can tune to 7-Limit and have them sent just after Christmas... $90 USD, shipped to Canada or US. Contact me if you are interested. EDIT: Sold!
I have never been able to appreciate the Manji like others have. The longer I play, the more I know what I need, and I am not nearly as high maintenance as maybe I once thought I was.
I over bend and play the high end all the time. I don't overdraw a lot, and probably play a little harder than the jazzier overbend players.
WHat I do like is to make sure a harp is airtight and plays fast. I don't HAVE to have a lot of embossing.
That being said, the Manji's I've played have had warped plates, bumpy combs, and poor response (and squealing). I would love to have a "good" one.
I play Special 20's that I tweak myself. The only cons are they get gunk where the lip meets the covers. They also have a comb you can't flatten.
I LOVE Crossovers too, but don't prefer vented covers. All-in-all, they play faster and easier, but have a raspier and brighter tone. I prefer the more compressed and focused SP20 comb. No one in the audience could tell the difference, though.
Hohner harps are also very easy to work on in all facets compared to Manji's and stainless steel harps. I do like a good 1847 or Session!
Mike wrote: "That being said, the Manji's I've played have had warped plates, bumpy combs, and poor response (and squealing). I would love to have a "good" one." My new information (not news to anyone): Suzuki US has a one year warranty. If you buy any of our harmonicas and are not satified, call us at 800-854-1594. I am at extension 4410. Warranty includes reed failure.
I don't know how else to say it, but a good Marine Band is pure magic. All of the Suzukis and Seydels are fine instruments, and I think far more consistently fine instruments, but I just don't think they can attain that "magic" level. Lee Oskars can be fine instruments also and are certainly the most reliable(IMO), but I don't ever recall thinking of 1 of my LO's as, far and above, better than any other LO in my lifetime. Every once in awhile, I come across a MB that makes me stop and say, "this one is the best harp I've ever played".
Joe - What would u say is the most important upgrade to make the manji play beautifully? Other than gapping and normal setup. ---------- 1.21 JigaWatts N' Punch It To 88
It's not that simple, it depends on what problems might need addressed and they don't always have the same problems! Gapping is the best place to start ---------- www.spiersharmonicas.com
My finest harmonica is a Stage One SP20 I got from Rockin' Ron--if you have the money, get Joe to customize whatever harmonica you think you like. I am sure he can improve a Manji!
I have several Manji's, and I've started a slow switch to Crossovers, I just like them. But I've had no intention of replacing my Manji in D, I dont play it that much but reading this thread I realized it was because it was my most difficult harmonica to play, especially could not bend holes one and barely two.
I just took it apart and flattened the comb and the draw plate. As I started on the plate I was pretty startled how much it showed potential leakage along the first reed. I'm thrilled, the whole darn harmonica is easier to play and bending all appropriate holes (in my beginner level of skill) is exceptionally better.
I had done this once before on the Manji C but it was not that bad to begin with so I didn't notice as much improvement, it was when I was a beginning beginner lol and just fascinated that I could take it apart and understand what I was doing.
Follow up: being up early and full of coffee, I decided to check other harps, including a Manji Low D which has a sound I love and both the comb and lower reed plate were the worst I've seen of all my harps; it was easy to fix and it plays beautifully although I still can't bend 1 and 2 holes which I think is more about me and the fact that my Low D and Low C are very different harps to play. I know that playing with others they probably would t see much use but I really love the sounds they make, especially the chords which make them sound like mini organs. It's kind of thrilling and if I get weak, I might get a Manji Low F. I have difficulty with my hearing and even the higher notes on my D major harp are difficult to decern what they really might sound like to others.
Messing with my harmonicas and being able to improve them gives me usable knowledge which I like ( I'm kind of a learning fan) but I also like the fact that with my Crossovers, I have't felt the need to even gap any reeds, those I just play and wish I could get a few more, and probably will later on.
Last Edited by New but determined on Dec 18, 2015 8:16 AM
There wasn't much if any talk about flattening combs and reed plates until I brought it up several years ago. Yes it's now an important fundamental thing to do, but a harp can play pretty fine without it. Many nailed together wood comb third-tier custom MBs were sold for years like that, and are still blowing players minds today. With loose nails and sunshine gleaming through the back if you look. What is absolutely critical above all else is proper gapping and profiling. Everything else matters too, but even when everything else is perfect it still won't play right if it's not gapped right. ---------- www.spiersharmonicas.com
Yeah, I've heard that from James Gordon. He swears that the reedwork is primary and that the rest of the harp can be made of anything - it doesn't matter.
But all of the harps I have seen from him are exquisitely airtight: Golden Melodies with resin combs!
I've got at least 18 Manjis and wouldn't part with them. Everyone is different when it comes to likes and dislikes as well as experiences with different models and manufacturers. What one of you likes, another can't stand. And attack makes a big difference, especially when you start experimenting with low tunings. Awhile back I purchased a Suzuki Baritone C...if you try playing hard on that instrument you'll hate it...it has to be played with a lighter controlled breath. To each his own.
I'm not a very discerning harmonica player. I've owned several Manji's. They've all been great. If I didn't have a huge inventory of other harps, I would be completely content playing them out of the box.
Since someone else brought this back to the top. I now have a better way to describe my "manji issue." When i play it, its similar to trying to drink a McDz milkshake through a straw. I don't know if anyone could tell me what this stems from. But thats whats goin on. Its obviously not that extreme, but when compared to my other harps it just has more of a resistance to its playing.
The gapping seems very touchy. If i open the gaps even slightly its just too leaky to play.
But ive just started messing with reed shaping technique. Before all i did was gapping. I have yet to check the shaping on the manji. But im determined to get it to play better. They look and feel so nice. If mine could only play as well as it looks. Maybe ill buy a second one in a different key. IDK. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth... Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 28, 2015 8:34 AM
