I started playing harp back in the '70's in rural Australia. No-one of course knew anything about the harmonica in my town, so I just taught myself. It seemed natural to use my tongue to guide the airstream and have done it that way ever since. Now that I have a computer and the internet I find that hardly anyone admits to doing it that way. I even hear some people say that it makes everything harder; I just can't see how. I hear people say that U-blockers can't bend, overblow, play high notes, or warble. Once again I dispute all of that. Could it be that lots of harmonica teachers out there, including some high profile ones, are wrong about U-blocking?
And I apologise for starting a new thread, but I could not find a search function on the page to find old threads. Computers are still relatively new for me...
I have personally never heard anyone say that u blockers couldn't bend, overblow, or warble. Seems silly to think you can do it all tongue blocked (with your tongue in the harp) but not Ublock.
I have always been curious about Ublock. You don't hear much about it. It seems like it would be tough, but i suppose if that's the way you learn ...
Im interested to hear what others have to say in the subject.
Thanks for the welcome Killa Hertze. I think there is only one real disadvantage to U-Blocking; and that is that I cannot articulate the notes with the sharp attack that a lip purser can. Of course I can always just pull my tongue back in and then use it to attack the note. I think it goes together with tongue blocking as well. I'm also curious to hear what others have to say.
I think it's partly down to the fact that you can't learn how to u block... At least I think that's the case? I believe that being able to roll your tongue is one of those things that you are born with or not. I know I can't.
So I guess that if it was a method that teachers suggested, it would alienate all of those who physically couldn't do it?
I pucker, tongue block, and U-block. Not as a rule but in 2nd position I find myself tongue blocking holes 1-4, puckering holes 5-7, and U-blocking holes 8-10. I do the different embouchures on the other holes as well but seems less frequently in 2nd position.
As far as playing high notes, warble, bending, and over bending it seemed easier for me to do that stuff in the 3rd octave with the U-block. Especially overdrawing the 9 or 10 seem easier with U-block to me. Bends on 8-10 feel easier. Maybe it's just because I've been doing it that way for some years now at the suggestion of Michael Rubin.
Yup, U blocking has 3 advantages as far as I can see.
1. It sounds great for single notes on a chrome.
2.In combination with moving the jaw left and right while also moving the tongune, it enables very fast consecutive hole movement for a 5 hole range.
3. It solves nearly every high note problem, except for third position type slapping and of course octaves. Although I can pucker and TB the high notes at a pro level, nothing beats the facility, ease and tone of U blocking for me.
By the way, the curl of the tongue has zero to do with what makes U blocking work, imo. It is all about centering the tongue on the bottom cover plate underneath the intended hole. Therefore U blocking is not genetic.
I too find it easier on the higher holes to U-block.... especially on the higher harps. When I first started I U-blocked everything to get a clear note, then eventually found my way to pucker the notes. But, if I'm feeling a note is loose I will U-block to hit it right.
When I was a kid trying to emulate Butterfield I organically became a u-blocker. I suppose I throw in other methods but it certainly is my ground and signature! ---------- Facebook
But try to suggest that you are shaping the airflow farther back in your throat or that there is a difference between pucker and lip blocking and we still have to throw you in the stockade.
(I was going to say I never U-block myself, but now that I think about it, I have messed around with it a bit to get some splits, but it's probably the technique I use the least. No prejudice against it, but I'm just more comfortable using other techniques.)
I tongue block as well as U-block; for me they seem to go together well.
But as for pucker; I think you may have thrown a spanner into the works Narocan- what I thought was pucker might actually be lip blocking? I might end up in the stockade yet!
I'm a tongue-block and lip pursing player. I've experimented with U-blocking but the only thing I can do with it is play a note straight. I can't bend with that technique and can't do the special effects that I can do with tongue-blocking. I also don't understand how people can articulate notes when their tongues are shaped like a tunnel. If people can do these things with a U-block, more power to them but I don't understand how.
DanP: I don't actually roll my tongue- it's actually quite flat. As for articulating notes; I can't. I need to change my embouchure for that.
Mirco: I change to tongue blocking for octaves and slaps. However, I find the change between U blocking and tongue blocking to be fairly seamless. For me at least, they seem to be complimentary.
Lip blocking started being described as a variation of pucker. With pucker you create a space between your lips, while lip blocking is kind of like the lip version of the U-Block, where you use your bottom lip, deep in your mouth, to create the hole. At that point the top lip is out of the mechanics since the harp is in your mouth more or less.
And then I had to go and discover that quite often I have a hole in the front of my mouth that is open wider than just one note but that I was doing something farther back in my mouth to create a stream of air and by slanting the harp back and forth I could hit different holes. Very useful on warbles, but it took a couple days before anyone else said they experienced the same thing. I thought maybe I'd finally cracked!
Very interesting Nacoran: I think you may be on to something. Lip blocking as you describe it is quite similar to U-blocking; the tongue and the lip perform the same function.
This makes Lip Pucker even more alien to me. This is a problem for me- in four weeks time I will be running a beginners harmonica workshop at a local music festival. I feel reasonably confident that I can pull this off. However, on the question of single note embouchure; I feel I should be teaching the most common way of doing that. Except I'm now not even sure what it is! What I thought was lip pucker, is actually closer to what you describe as lip blocking. Is pucker the same embouchure that is used to smoke a cigarette?
I'm up-blocker. I think it's kind of tongue block. I don't 100% curve my tongue to U-shape. I block hole from both sides. All techniques are possible with u-block. Mark Ford and John Nemeth are both u-blockers too.
I think lip block is what most pucker players actually use. They are just slight variations of the same style, but using the term lip block reminds people to get the harmonica deeper into their mouth which, generally speaking gives you better tone.
I think this is because it's easier to regulate the breath force when the harp is deeper in your mouth and easier to use your mouth as an acoustic chamber.
That said, when I want to play something really light and sweet and airy I play with a true pucker and light breath force. It's much easier to accidentally get unwanted fluctuations in volume that way (as opposed to wanted fluctuation) but for my money it's a great sound for light lifting notes, particularly if, for instance you are ending your song by going up an octave to the tonic. But it's not as robust as lip blocking.
I think ultimately it's a matter of descriptivism vs. prescriptivism. It doesn't matter 100% which way you do it, but having different terms to describe slight variations gets people thinking about those slight variations and playing with them, and they all add slightly different tonal qualities, so the more command you have over different variations the more tonal variations you can make. It's like using articulations- da da da, ti ti ti, la la la... they all make slightly different sounds and can be used in different settings.
"Puckering" = isolating the desired note by shaping your lips to blow through just one hole. As opposed to "tongue blocking", which = covering several holes & isolating the note you want to play by blocking the others with your tongue.
"Lip blocking", I don't know who came up with that, it seems like just a way to make puckering more "respectable" to the kind of tongue-block player who enjoys saying anyone who doesn't tongue block is "doing it wrong."
Dougharps: Yes I agree with you about embouchure- there are many ways to do it, just as everybody's mouth is different. And the fact that several people on this thread who have admitted to U-blocking are also excellent players shows that the U-blocking technique is just as capable as other techniques. It is still fun to talk about these things, and I have certainly learned a lot just from listening to the variety of opinions expressed here.
As for the 'persecuted minority'; that is just my twisted sense of humour. I'm definitely not serious about that...
I think some self-prosecution kept me from giving up on tongue blocking. I stuck with it because it was in the paper instructions that came with my harp... and I figured any other method was probably wrong for some reason.
But U-blocking came easy for me, and I found it especially good for moving through single notes. (tip of the tongue rests just below the play hole while the sides block holes left and right).
Maybe some negativism comes from folks who can’t "roll" their tongue into a U shape? Although Michael you may have a point because like you and Konstantin… I don't "roll" my tongue into a true "U" shape either. But still, I can. How about you?
Maybe it just makes it easier to pick up on this technique.
Anyway, I do struggle to bend low notes while U-blocking. So, I also use a deep pucker technique. It makes tough bends much easier for me. But switching quickly from u-block to pucker to tongue blocking is not easy for me either.
Maybe I should work harder at bending low notes while U blocking. Has anyone else struggled with this?
I'm feeling a little more inspired about u-blocking.
Thanks dchurch- it's good to see all the U-blockers come out of the woodwork.
Have you tried dropping your tongue on deep bends? I think that when I do deep bends I actually create a hollow with my tongue and I drop it down. I can do it other ways but this is the easiest for me.
Maybe we could create a 12 step style therapy group for the U blockers. It would be sort of like,
"Hi everyone. I'm Ron. And I was a U blocker for 10 years. But I've been clean now for the past 8 months by switching to tongue blocking."
Then the group claps and congratulates him.
Seriously though,. When I started playing harp in the 70s, rolling my tongue to U block was the only way I could get single notes. It just made sense to me. I don't do it any longer. But as far as I'm concerned, if you have decent tone and don't tromp on the vocals, who cares what technique is used to make the music? ----------
Nate, that post of yours (making the distinction between lip block and pucker), has really made me wonder exactly what it is I do.
I know that i switch back and forth between some form of lip purse and tongue block, but after trying to break it down yesterday, i think i actually use all three. It seems sometimes the hole in my pucker is about the size of a dime (which would be pucker), then other times it seems to be about the size of 3 holes wide (which would be lip block and probably developed as i started playing with the harp much deeper in my mouth), and other times i use tongue block. So it seems i use all 3.
U block I just don't get, but i think2chops hit it pretty good. Who cares, along as it sounds good. And you can play. Seems alot of us do things we are not aware of, but we just know it sounds best.
Also on the topic of articulations while Ublocking. There are many ways to articulate. And you can easily articulate while tongue blocking, so it shouldn't be an issue for ublockers. For instance while lip pursing/blocking i tend to use the tip with a "Da Da Da Da" type sound. Tongue Block comes from further back with a "Ka Ka Ka". But as Jerry Portnoy teaches, you can also use your airstrean to articulate ... by using your tremelo. (Which i suppose, if you had to put a sound to it, would be something like "Ha Ha Ha") I use all three of these aswell.
They all sound slightly different, but they all work. Each one best in different circumstances
Anyways good stuff nate. Amazing that i never realised that.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 21, 2017 7:16 AM
Frank, I know it's easy to dismiss it as a silly variation, but it does use two distinct embouchures. I imagine most people who use one use both and don't always think about it. Like I said, it's a descriptivist term; it's a way to describe what you are doing in your mouth. If you don't have two words for two different things they get lumped together as one thing.
Killa, yeah, I suspect anyone who puckers probably uses a straight plucker and lip blocking back and forth to shape their tone. Lip blocking is also easier on the lips because the sliding is taking place on the inside edge of your lip which isn't nearly as likely to be all dried out. (Put down the pretzels and walk away... when I was a kid there was a kids book my mom read to me about a town that wanted to have a band concert, but there was some old guy who didn't want it, so he sucked lemons in front of everyone. Most of the musicians, well, you know when someone sucks a lemon in front of you your lips pucker funny just at the thought, so no one could play... except the harmonica player! (At least that's how I remember the story). The funny thing is, I can't have anything salty like popcorn (except kettle corn) or pretzels before I play or I tear up my lips. Whenever I think about it I realize the old man was only one more food away from stopping the whole show!
Interesting comments Killa hertz: I think I do articulate using my airstream. I don't find it to be as sharp as articulating with my tongue. But I've lived without that sharp attack all these years, so I'm not going to stress too much over it.
Nacoran: I did an experiment last night after reading your previous comment about lip blocking and how the bottom lip does most of the work. I wondered if the reverse could also work; I tried playing exclusively with my top lip- I was most surprised to discover it also works! Another experiment I did was to see if I could overblow only using my bottom lip; that also worked.
I am going back to my previously held theory that there are no rules in music. If we all blindly follow set instructions there will be no innovation. I'm glad no-one ever gave me set instuctions!
Last Edited by UniPsychoMan on Jan 21, 2017 3:50 PM
