Sad,just sad. What was even sadder was all the posts on the YouTube clip saying how great she was. Maybe there's hope for me after all.
Last Edited by John95683 on Aug 05, 2016 10:42 PM
The Folkies and Country artists playing harp is a very interesting phenomena. It is always a crowd pleaser. I think this is because harps are the closest imitation to the voice and it is just raw and honest.
The rack players I'm thinking of are excellent guitar players, have beautiful voices and write their own material. They know exactly where their harp skills are. Some won't play because of it. I think that is a financial mistake. The audience loves it.
I have a couple of theories on this, but I am of 1 mind. Let 'em play. No need to criticize. They are not deluding themselves. At least not any more than the rest of us.
Do you have a clip? I looked something up. She was playing with another harp player. It wasn't great playing but sonically I wouldn't call it folkie. It had a very blues/rock sound to it. (Some warbles, and some bent notes, and a lot of overdrive.) Song was okay. I wouldn't listen to it for the harp though.
I guess that could be. I still am amazed at the crowd cheering for such playing . Oy . And the dramatic posturing. Different strokes I guess.. ---------- www.shakeylee.com
I see it all the time. The crowd goes wild for anything harmonica. I think this goes beyond tone deafness and having never heard Jason Ricci. It connects the artist to the audience. It defies reason. It's magic.
I'm with Nate on ths one. I listened to a bit of that song that had the other harp player. I expected it to be worse given the OP. Look there's no denying that major artists take liberties in picking up a harp that they don't do with almost any other instrument. I don't in general share the disdain that many on the forum have when an artist does that in the absence of being a virtuoso.
People here rail at Jagger, Steven Tyler, Dylan and other rock/folk types all the time because they dare to pick up a harp without having Little Walter like proficiency. I've listened to a lot of that stuff and think it sounds fine, Jagger on the Spider and the Fly for example, Tyler on a number of songs, Dylan on a number of songs, play well enough to serve the song in my opinion. No they're not going into the pantheon of greatest players but so what?
I think so many artists do this because let's face it, it is pretty easy to get something fairly musical though rudimentary out of a harp. There just no denying that. You know 5 minutes to play, five (or way more) years to master. And the crowd (yes those unwashed masses) loves the sound of even a simply played phrase on it. Which is good news for every beginner.
Having said that i agree that, Underwood, who is one the few Idol partipants that I actually like, is really stretching it. The gold standard though for a celebrity artist sounding awful in my opinion is Alanis Morisette. i forget the tune, but it literally sounded like she was just randomly honking. No single notes. No musical plan. Just thought, I think i'll pick this harmonica up and blow into it during my song. I remember being pissed about it at the time. Now? I just laugh. I must be "maturing". Hahaha.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Aug 07, 2016 10:55 AM
This may have been her first time, trying to play harp in front of people---seemed like she was just having fun and not trying to pass herslf of, as a great harp player
Im seldom this negative on this site---but
'PULL THE PLUG' on that guy ---he was painful and kept throwing fills in inappropriately.
Harmonica players seem to have 'delusion of grandeur' more than players of other instruments
when I suffer from minor delusions--I try to learn my favorite harp players licks---note for note--with good timing and touch--believe me, this will keep u 'right sized"
I doubt seriously if anyone pays out good money for her concerts and albums primarily to hear Underwood play harmonica. The harp playing is part of the show. It's inclusion suits the mood and story of the song. You'll notice the old Premier amp center stage and the modern Green Bullet she's using. Not actually sure who's using that Premier. Both Underwood and whoever the harp player is sound like they're straight through the PA. In any event, she ain't trying to pass herself off as Big Mama Thornton, and thank goodness for that on several levels, so what's the point of slamming the girl for whatever failings compared to all you harmonica playing savants wielding the pitchforks and torches.
Whether you actually like her music or not, she's a seriously great singer, a very talented songwriter, and she knows she's got some of the best female legs on the planet. Note the shorts and mini skirts which are pretty much her uniform. And she's not that bad on harmonica for someone who is more or less using it as a prop. I've heard much worse from other major stars. Always thought Townsend should have shoved Daltry's harp where he could play it after a round of beans on toast. And I am for decades a huge fan of the Who. ---------- LSC
The silver lining might be that she inspired some people to look into learning how to play the harmonica! My father always had one lying around that he would fool around with, but he never had lessons and certainly didn’t have the Internet to help him! I understand that there are different “types” of harmonicas. What type is Carrie playing on that song? Thank you!
I'd say she's got "potential" as a harp player. Of course her forte is writing and singing, she's been doing that for some years. Will she work as hard to be a really badass harp player? I have my doubts. Heathen said a lot there as well, sometimes an audience will go a bit wild just because harmonica is so......people friendly. A lot us can wish we had as cool and lucrative a gig as Ms. Underwood has.
And BTW, off topic- Taylor Hicks will be here in Vegas soon. ----------
It seems like she's just adding some "harp sound" to a song rather than "becoming a harp player" --- exactly what U2's Bono does at the end of the song Desire. Nothing wrong with that at all, and the crowd loves it.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Nov 27, 2017 9:06 AM
I'll bet if she picked up some drum sticks and pounded out a beat for 20 seconds people would have gone wild over that too. It's a show. People are there to see her perform. If she did a handstand or a cartwheel or a tap dance they would have gone nuts. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Nov 28, 2017 8:00 AM
I am OK with her as lead singer messing around with harp, even if playing at a rudimentary level. It is her show! People will get excited by anything she does, such as the drumming idea mentioned above.
Why the other player was added to this group, I can't explain, unless he is someone's friend. A music professional in her tour staff should have been able to recognize that his harp playing was not at the pro level at which all the other musicians in the touring band play. He seems to be playing at a local bar band level, and below the average playing level of bar band harp players in my area of Central Illinois. ----------
It would appear that the other harp player is her guitar player. And evidently they were both given instruction by Travis Meadows (who I don't know). Here's what I found on the 'net. https://www.facebook.com/travismeadowsmusic/posts/1454163387943443
Based on the video of him down in the comments, Travis Meadows would have done a better job than the guitar player.
Judging from videos posted on this forum, very many here would have done better.
However, the guitar player was already available as part of the band being paid, and I think the harp lick exchange was part of the show designed to excite the crowd. So it was an entertainment decision and it seemed to work OK for them, despite our evaluations.
I am still OK with Carrie doing her entertainment playing for her crowd. She is the star... ----------
It's a good thing for people to see harmonica used in a musical setting, and she is not horrible. And yes, I am better. I am not young, blonde, female or beautiful, however. Hopefully no one will hold that against me. Next step, get her a chromatic. OK, I am just kidding.
I remember this performance. My daughter called and was very excited to talk about it... I thought that was darn cool. I told my daughter the truth. Carrie is a great entertainer but not an incredible harmonica player... I'm not a fan and haven't given it any thought until this post resurfaced.
Ms. Underwood may not have incredible harp skills, so what. That's entertainment. Also, IMO it was pretty obvious she took the harmonica seriously and wasn't just honking on it.
I saw something similar at a Dick Dale concert when he set down his guitar and played a trumpet piece! As a life long horn player I just thought it was cool. His horn skills were no where near his guitar prowess but he had good tone and played well with in his limits. We talked after the concert and I could tell he enjoyed it as much as I did.
I guess if you are a true fan you hear with heart as well as your ears.
I've heard a lot of solid harp players that are just doing there best singing with some pretty weak voices. And I dont mean "pretty" like Carrie Underwood pretty.
I'm familiar with Travis Meadows. He's a really good player, but is primarily known as an amazing song writer as far as I know. We exchanged a few harmonica related e-mails years ago. More than likely he played what the producer requested on the Underwood tune in the studio, but I've heard him play some great stuff on his own songs. His site is www.travismeadows.com
@the_happy_honker - That's funny! I know my question is more than a bit silly, but I'm not a player yet and was simply interested in the model as I liked the sound. It's a bit daunting picking one since there are so many manufacturers, models, keys, etc. I found a picture where it looks like a "Les Oskar" model, but I can't make out the key that is stamped on it. Sorry to be a bother.
Last Edited by DeaconTom on Nov 29, 2017 8:59 PM
Here is the live video of Travis Meadows I mentioned, just accompanying on harp in hand, not rack playing:
I think it shows more skill than the guitar player [edit: playing harp with Carrie Underwood in top video], as it should, since he apparently taught the guitar player and Ms. Underwood. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Nov 30, 2017 9:51 AM
Not a silly question at all. A little unsolicited advice. Just make sure to get one that's not a toy, that is one you'd find in the $5.99 bin at Walmart. It doesn't need to be super expensive though if you're truly a beginner and trying to learn. There are some customizers who will disagree with the above and will tell you its easier to learn to play with a customized harp. I disagree. But if moneys no object go for it if you like.
My experience: When i was starting out I'd narrowed it down to Hohner special 20 or marine band and a comparable lee oskar model. I ruled out the Marine Band because of the wooden comb which can swell with playing. I figured I'd have enough to worry about without that. Settled on the special 20, not so much for the sound differential but because my embouchure felt more comfortable on it than on the Oskar. I've been playing for about 10 year now, strictly special 20s.
Lastly, remember MOST of your sound comes from your skill (or lack thereof) on a harp. Not from the brand or amps, effects etc. At least early on, don't get caught falling down the gearhead rabbit hole.
I have no vids posted, though I have sat in with several local bands in my area for a few tunes every now and then and they keep asking me back. So by all means take what im sayin with a grain of salt.
I think Kudzu (and others - Tomlin Leckie is another excellent teacher) has a video on this topic as well.
Special 20 would set you back about $45. Im guessing LO has a comparatively priced model.
Customized are in the hundreds.
I think the happy honker was making fun of the signature models, from ahem, somewhat mediocre players that one sees, which aren't gonna make you a better player. i don't think he was making fun of your question. MBH can be a comedically sarcastic place sometimes, to the delight of some of us.
Good luck.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Nov 30, 2017 9:52 AM
Special 20, LO, Harpmaster, Bluesmaster are all good quality harps to begin with. Don't get the cheap stuff. Customs are great, but develop some breath control first! ----------
My feeling-garbage lightweight country pop from the Nashville machine She might as well have a signature harp-- Keith Urban markets an Estaban type low quality guitar
@DeaconTom: Welcome to the forum, especially because you're a beginner and we want to see you starting your harp journey off on the right foot!
Sorry you misunderstood the joke! Like Honkin on Bobo says, it wasn't directed at you at all, but at Hohner's penchant for promoting musicians for whom - how to put nicely? - harp isn't their main bag. Given a few years of continued popularity, I can easily imagine Underwood getting her own harmonica.
There are so many artists who deserve so much recognition, also in pop and country music - Tommy Morgan, Charlie McCoy, Mickey Raphael, Norton Buffalo - where are the harps named for them? Would it really hurt Hohner so bad to have a Sugar Blue harp or a Carlos de Junco harp?
Chromatic players can celebrate Larry Adler or Toots Thielmans - true masters of the harp. Diatonic players can put their gob on the likes of Steven Tyler and Ozzy Osbourne - gee, thanks, Mr. Hohner, you're really swell!"
DeaconTom, the above is a classic "poor, downtrodden, underappreciated me" rant that comes naturally after you've been hanging here a while. Good luck to you!
Thanks @Honkin On Bobo! Great info. I took no offense to @the_happy_honker's reply as I figured it was an inside joke that wasn't meant for me anyway! Ha! I'm definitely not going the cheapo route. I used to goof around on my Dad's Hohner, which was of good quality, but sadly I can't find it anymore. It's around here somewhere and I'm guessing that someone else put it away somewhere for safe keeping! ;-) I do want to take some online lessons, but this is purely for my own enjoyment, and hopefully not to drive away any of my family!
For what it's worth, Travis Meadows sent me a direct message via Facebook and informed me that it was in fact a Lee Oskar, and he seems to recall it was an E Flat key. He said it's an odd key for harp, and he recommended a C or D. Thanks for all your help!
Eb harps are needed for some songs, but I think his recommendation is good. Ultimately, if you play with others a lot, you will need all keys from time to time.
When starting to get harps I would have said to get a C and/or A harp. D would be my third choice for starting out.
EDIT: In my opinion, Travis Meadows (who was the harp teacher and not in the Carrie Underwood video) seems to have written and sung some really good stuff in the singer/songwriter vein. I would love to go to one of his performances of his original stuff and am considering buying some of his songs or albums. In the realm of singer/songwriters using rack harp as part of his show, he is a really good performer who knows how to use his voice and writes really well. There are so many great artists that we only hear about accidentally. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 01, 2017 9:25 AM
A word of caution about Lee Oskar Harps, they come in four different tunings, Major, Harmonica Minor, Natural Minor, Melody Maker,
Start with a C major, nothing wrong with the other tunings but it would be confusing trying to start learning with one.
Edit. These are color coded as well, Major tuned is red, and for what its worth, after a key of C I'd go with an A then a G Then a Bb, you will need a D to play alone with a bit of blues, but theses others are a lot more fun
Last Edited by Flbl on Dec 02, 2017 5:16 AM
Flbl, good advice. I have minor and harmonic minor harps and I love them, but you want to start on a regular old major. The other brands do make odd tunings (Seydel even lets you customize them) but Lee Oskar seems to be the only one that regularly has the different tunings out in stores instead of as special orders off their site. They also label their minor tuned harps in 2nd position, just to confuse everyone.
Since we are talking about singers who picked up the harmonica as well - to varying degrees of success - I am putting a shout out to a few singers that seemed to play pretty well -
1. Steve Marriott - (of Humble Pie and solo fame). Really good playing and his harmonica vibrato is unique, as it really matches his unique singing vibrato style.
2. Van Morrison - very musical and creative - not heavy on precise bending techniques, but quite effective nonetheless.
3. Roger Chapman - (of Family and his solo career). Mr. Goat Man Bleat Singer is an acquired taste, but definitely an original. In the early Family recordings, he used the harmonica a few times and I was surprised how "Fearless" (name of one of their records) and right on pitch he was using that 3 hole inhale second bend. ---------- The Iceman
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