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Chromatic Newbie
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Killa_Hertz
1138 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:11 AM
Alright, well the title kinda says it.

I'm looking to get a Chromatic to start messing with here and there. I'm not planning on devoting a TON of time to it, but I also dont wanna spend money on Junk. I want it to be able to do pretty much anything I would realistically need it to.

I've got some pretty good advice so far on some of the models out there. But I just wanted to get the general consensus here.

I dont wanna spen $200. But used is not out either.

So far I've been led in the fdirection of the 64.

Any thoughts on other models?

cx12, Herings, Etc.

Thanks
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6SN7
646 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:21 AM
I would suggest a cx12, they are easy to use, but others like the Hohner 270 Deluxe.
I bought one to mess with and it sat for years.
Playing 2nd position diatonic is like learning English. Learning chro is like learning French. You have to work it. Good luck.
Killa_Hertz
1140 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:31 AM
Yea i had a larry adler that i picked up used. But it sat for a while and i never really got around to using it. So i traded it for some other stuff. Now I'm wishing i kept it. I just want a user friendly one i can play blues and anything else i want.

I realise its totally different. I played the larry adler a few times. It was crazy. I'm not expecting to be able to pick it up and play it. But ide like to learn a few tunes on it. I plan on taking it slow. I dont want it to distract from my diatonic playing too much.

I hear the cx12 doesn't have as many octaves and is limiting if trying to play things on the lower octave, like little walter tunes.

But it does look like a nice harp.

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A440
540 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:42 AM
Three popular 12 holers under $200 are:
Hohner 270 Deluxe
Seydel Chromatic DeLuxe
Suzuki SCX-48

You'll find a lot of reviews and opinions on the web on all three. Each has its own strong following.

A 48 is easier to handle than a 56 or 64, especially for a beginner or occasional player.

Last Edited by A440 on Apr 22, 2016 5:43 AM
Killa_Hertz
1141 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:52 AM
What about the Hering Models?

Or models other than the ones mentioned.



Spam filter .... blah blah blah ......



4'4 5 4' 3' 4+ 3+ 3' 2
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 22, 2016 5:53 AM
Tyler
27 posts
Apr 22, 2016
6:55 AM
I regret getting a key of C. I recommend a 16 hole or lower range harp. The deep growling of the lower octave sounds so good!
root
72 posts
Apr 22, 2016
6:57 AM
Check out the Easttop chromatics at New Harmonica.com.They run from $130 to $450. They all have a great slide assembly, really comfortable mouthpiece. Best bang for the buck out there.
Piro39
103 posts
Apr 22, 2016
8:49 AM
I must have about 30 chromatics and my favorite model is the CX-12. I have 2 high end Swans and I think they are pretty good although not as loud as others but if you play amplified it doesn't matter. I am referring to the model with the round mouthpiece which sell for around $80.00 online at The Swan Music Store located somewhere in Colorado. They are similar in construction to the Suzuki SCX model which are also very good. I'd stay away from Herings because they are not dealing with this country and parts are hard to get but they are nice players. One needs to learn to work on chromatics because they do require a lot of maintenance especially the valves. Hope this helps.
Killa_Hertz
1143 posts
Apr 22, 2016
9:19 AM
Thanks yall. Funny i was all but talked into the 64. And now i got all these other opinions. Lol. I don't know why i expected any less. I'm all confused now.

But atleast i ve narrowed down a few NOT to get. Lol.

Thanks again.
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dougharps
1210 posts
Apr 22, 2016
9:45 AM
Piro39 said it well: Herings are nice players, BUT the parts and the chromatics themselves are not readily available in the US. I love them, but would advise against going for Hering at this time. Luckily I stocked up on lots of parts at a clearance sale for mine, so I am set.

A 16 hole is harder to cup with a mic and usually leaks a little more than a 12 hole. However, the low end of a 16 hole sounds massive when amplified. You might consider getting a key of C tenor (or baritone for some brands) that starts with the notes at the low end of a 16 hole and leaves off the high squeaky 4th octave. Since I have both a 16 hole and 12 hole I have not bought a tenor C.

Over time I invested gig money and gradually built up a collection of many keys of chromes in order to competently improvise across many keys, but to start I would recommend a C chromatic with the notes starting with the lower register of a 16 hole. If you may try going beyond playing in 3rd, you will find that most instructional information on chromatic is based on a C instrument.

As to getting a bargain, I suggest listening to Piro39 about Swans, though I have never played one. Piro39 is quite knowledgeable about chromatic harmonicas and I would trust his judgement. However, I do not know if Swans come in the lower C tuning.

Finally, Piro39 is right on target about the need for a player to learn to work on their chromatics. Based on some of your previous postings, I think that you will do fine in that area. Just take it slowly and if you are stuck, look things up.
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Doug S.
rogonzab
945 posts
Apr 22, 2016
9:48 AM
I use a Swan 1248. It is so cheap, less thatn a MB where I live. It is good to start. Right now, I am prepared to a more expensive one. I am saving for a 16 holes. if you can play octaves in a chrom, those lower octaves in a 16 hole are adictives!
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.

Last Edited by rogonzab on Apr 22, 2016 9:49 AM
Killa_Hertz
1145 posts
Apr 22, 2016
10:15 AM
Wow. Thanks alot yall.

Yes the Lower notes is what I did NOT want to miss out on. I hadnt considered (nor did I know about) Tenor Chromatics. I usually do alot more research on my own before asking silly questions. But half of it is just the conversation.

The Tenor Sounds like its right up my alley. Shorter, easier to cup, and I probably wouldnt make much use of the high notes in the 4th octave anyways.

Zab .. I wouldnt mind getting a cheaper harp. because then I could buy a new one atleast. But I just dont want to end up with the Chromatic equivalent of a BluesBand. How cheap is the swan exactly. (play-ability wise & feel. Not Price.)


Ok well Ill do some more research then. Check out some baritone Models and see what my options are.


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rogonzab
946 posts
Apr 22, 2016
10:36 AM
The swan is good. It leaks air, yes, but unless that you play all the time whit octaves, is not a real issue.

More than a bluesband, is like a harpmaster.
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.

Last Edited by rogonzab on Apr 22, 2016 10:37 AM
KC69
521 posts
Apr 22, 2016
11:44 AM
I just bought an "Eastwood 16 hole" from Danny G. It plays great and has a semi rounded mouthpiece, the closest mouthpiece to a CX12 I've seen. The spring action is amazing and I think you can buy it for about $160.00 new.
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And I Thank You !!
KCz
Backwoodz
Bluz
Crawforde
97 posts
Apr 22, 2016
12:20 PM
For a 12 hole the Tenor Seydel Chromatic deluxe is a good bang for the buck, I love the low notes.
The 16 hole Easttops and Suzukis are sweet too. Or you can get a used 280 and tinker with it.
I'll second the recommendation of calling Danny G.
Be careful though.
Chromatics are addictive!
Check out bebop tuning too. It makes them make sense.
KC69
522 posts
Apr 22, 2016
12:27 PM
Yepper: I meant "Easttop."
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And I Thank You !!
KCz
Backwoodz
Bluz
dougharps
1211 posts
Apr 22, 2016
12:37 PM
rogonzab brought up playing octaves, and that is an issue to consider:

If you play octaves a lot, a 3 octave harp gives you room for 2 octaves or so of playing room from end to end, and a 4 octave instrument gives you 3 octaves or so of playing room. The octave spread reduces the available room to move on the chromatic (or any other harp).

That being said, William Clarke used 3 octave 270s a lot, or so I am told. His playing did not suffer for lack of room on a 3 octave instrument.
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Doug S.
Killa_Hertz
1147 posts
Apr 22, 2016
12:53 PM
Yea. Surely I can get used to Anything. But I was kinda wanting to keep it as close to STANDARD as possible. But the word standard doesnt exactly seem to apply to chromatics.

BeeBop Tuning. Ahhh Geez ..... More choices to consider. Lmao.


Yea $200 is crazy. Especially when i dont even know what kind i like yet. or if it will even stick. I know thats all part of the deal, quality instruments cost money. But I think ill just keep my out out for a used model.
I know it seems a lil gross, but Ive seen some pretty clean 270s go for pretty cheap.

So many options. Its alot to consider.


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RyanMortos
1553 posts
Apr 22, 2016
5:02 PM
I own

Hohner Chromonica 280C
Hohner CBH 2016
Suzuki Chromatix SCX-48

I like the Suzuki so much that I plan on getting the 16 hole at some point. I'd buy another SCX-48 in a heartbeat if something happened to it. I've been toying with the idea of ebaying the hohner chromonica as it mostly just sits in its case on my desk it was the first chromatic I bought. Far as used chromatic harmonicas there's some people you can send them to that'll check the tuning, valves, clean for a few bucks.

I've been learning chromatic and diatonic harmonica side by side. It's nice that it's repeating octaves are similar to C diatonic 2nd octave note pattern. It's easier to practice all 12 major and minor scales on C chromatic vs a C diatonic, lol.

$200 isn't so bad for a beginner instrument. Lots of instruments you'll spend a good $500 for entry level learning instrument.

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RyanMortosHarmonica

~Ryan

See My Profile for contact info, etc.

Last Edited by RyanMortos on Apr 22, 2016 5:10 PM
Piro39
104 posts
Apr 22, 2016
6:03 PM
Killa I would advice you to stay away from a 270 especially a used one. They are a problem waiting to happen even thought they sound good. Used ones usually have a cracked and wrapped wooded comb. All chromatics eventually develop some problem with valves which you must learn to deal with usually putting new ones on which is very easy once you learn how. Now the 270 reed plates are nailed on through the wooden comb and to get to the valves on the inside means either removing the reed plate [ prying up the small nails ] or somehow going through the opening of the problem cell and blindly removing and installing a new valves than reinstalling the reed plates with the small nails, You really don't want to do this. Chromatics need to be taken apart regularly which is something you must learn to do unless you can afford a frequent harmonica repair person..Get a chromatic with an ABS or acrylic comb that have screws going through the reed plates and combs which makes valve work and reed work very easy. You say you are on a budget that is why I recommend the top of the line Swan with the round hole mouthpiece. This slide package is very efficient and only has one piece as opposed to three. This one piece slide fits into the mouthpiece and is very easy to deal with. The Swan valves are really good, they hardly stick in fact they are my favorite ones. I don't want to sound like I am pushing Swans but you say you are on a budget and the top of the line with round mouthpiece is around $80. I do not recommend their less expensive models and the only place that I would purchase one from is the Swan music Store in Colorado. They have an online store. Needless to say I have no affiliation with Swan or any other harmonica company. Now from what I understand Eastop are very good and a little more expensive which you can get from Danny G. After that I would recommend the Suzuki SCX line which isn't that much more expensive. I have 6 of them and they are great harmonicas for the money. As far as Tenor tuned harmonicas go there are very few models out there and they are more expensive, CX-12 is a very good one and I have a few Herings but you can't get them anymore in America and most likely Seydel has a tenor tuned one. In the end if you take to this chromatic thing you will end up owning more than one as I mentioned in an earlier post I have about 30 of them. The chromatic is a very different instrument than the diatonic. As I always like to say "The slide is your best friend".
Killa_Hertz
1149 posts
Apr 22, 2016
7:46 PM
Thanks piro. Very informative.

Im not necessarily on a budget. I just don't want to buy a $200 harp and never play it. If you say the seam is decent, i can swing $80 for a new one. That's not bad.

And i suppose your right, if i do end up playing it i will likely end up with quite a few.
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6SN7
647 posts
Apr 24, 2016
5:03 AM
If you buy a inexpensive chro, it will be leaky and you won't be happy and it will sit in your sock drawer, guarantee.
If you are really serious, buy a cx12. It is the easy to play as it is the tightest constructed chro, with little leakage. If your huffing and puffing, you'll have zero fun and quit.
Frankly, all the advise received hear would have confused me when I started a year ago. I started with a 10 hole chromatica, too leaky, borrow a 16 hole, too many holes! And finally settled on the cx12.
If $$$ is your over riding concern, wait, and buy it when $$$ takes a back seat to really wanting to play. Chros are a serious instrument and you can't guss around with them.

Last Edited by 6SN7 on Apr 24, 2016 5:04 AM
Killa_Hertz
1162 posts
Apr 24, 2016
6:32 AM
Great advice man thanks.

I kinda figured as much. That's why i was so concerned with which model. Because i know in diatonic you want a harp that will perform or is really not worth your time. But they re a lil cheaper.


But your right, if i wanted to play it bad enough, money wouldn't really be a concern. But i think I'll have to get in the swing of it first before i get the bug.

Thanks for the advice.
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SuperBee
3640 posts
Apr 24, 2016
6:50 AM
i have 2; cx12 and 270. bought the 270 slightly 2ndhand. liked it, left it on the table, sunbeams through the window heated it up, expansion in the plates cracked the comb. when it cooled down the crack closed up and its still playable...but i didnt find out that had happened for a while...when i found it cracked i put it away.
in the mentime i picked up a good 2ndhand cx12...guy said hed only played holes 1-5 and not much. i immediately found it esier than the 270...but its a mouthfull. good machine though.
anyway, found my 270 is playable again and actually i think i find it a little easier than the cx12 in a way...an expressive way...no doubt its just about the reed setup and i'm sure my cx12 could play every bit as well with a little work,,,but it doesnt need work either for the level i'm at, just finding my way around and getting used to the idea that the slide raises the tone...both good harps and not pricey...i havent played enough to have had to get into maintenance yet...but that joy is just up the road,
Gnarly
1749 posts
Apr 24, 2016
7:19 AM
If you are just starting the chromatic, consider bebop tuning--it makes playing more logical (no reversal in breath direction, blow is always lower than draw).
Contact me offlist if you think you might be interested.

Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 26, 2016 8:53 AM
DanP
298 posts
Apr 24, 2016
2:33 PM
I've noticed on amazon they have a Suzuki Chromatix SCX-48 for $139.98 with a 2 year warranty for $13.27. I don't own one but I'm thinking about getting one. That's very reasonable for a good chromatic. I've had good luck with Suzuki diatonic harmonicas so it may be worth checking out. If anyone has had a bad experience with this model, please chime in.

Last Edited by DanP on Apr 24, 2016 2:35 PM
Gnarly
1750 posts
Apr 24, 2016
3:23 PM
Hard to beat that price.

Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 26, 2016 8:50 AM
Harp Study
196 posts
Apr 24, 2016
4:06 PM
I don't play chromatic much, but I wanted one to play around with so I picked up the 10 hole hohner educator for like $45. It actually plays better than I expected. It doesn't have valves like most chroms, but it isn't as leaky as I thought it might be. It was for sure worth the price to mess around with. If you want something for stage use it probably isn't the right tool, but for messing around and getting familiar with the note layout on a chrom it does the trick.

Last Edited by Harp Study on Apr 24, 2016 4:07 PM
WinslowYerxa
1129 posts
Apr 25, 2016
10:14 AM
Easttop also makes a pretty nice tenor. I have one; seems to be a solid build.
===========
Winslow

Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
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Crawforde
98 posts
Apr 25, 2016
3:41 PM
I didn't know easttop had a tenor out yet.
I might have to give Danny a call!
Killa_Hertz
1169 posts
Apr 25, 2016
4:01 PM
Im still kicking around which model to go with. I think i just need to get my feet wet at a decent price. Check out this 64. Obviously it comes with covers and the other side is identical as far as how pristine it looks. it's been completely redone. New windsavers, its got screws instead of pins, fully cleaned. What do you think it's worth?




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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 25, 2016 4:04 PM
mlefree
658 posts
Apr 26, 2016
1:58 AM
One caution about a normal C tuned Cx-12. The top notes are nearly unplayable due to limitations of the injection-molding used to make the comb. Very, very frustrating!

I'd plan on getting a tenor or one of Brendans new 3-D printed combs. I suspect they make a huge difference in the playability of a normal C CX-12.

Michelle

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SuperBee
3642 posts
Apr 26, 2016
2:46 AM
Aha! I thought i must just have to develop technique...I was trying to play the top hole this morning and found I had to be very gentle to get its to sound...
chromaticblues
1756 posts
Apr 26, 2016
6:20 AM
I would suggest the East Top SS48. I think that seems like the value for a new harp! $135 brand new!
Killa_Hertz
1178 posts
Apr 26, 2016
6:40 AM
$135 new isn't bad, but how did it play in comparison to the others. Some of the other harps aren't THAT much more. And if they really play that much better i think it would be worth the extra dough.

Thoughts on the harp i posted above? ???
Anyone ..???? Bueller??? Anyone???


Heres a few more of the same harp.











Its an older one from the 60s, but it's totally refurbished and clean as a whistle. Also the pins removed and replaced wuth screws.


Is it worth buying? If so what is it worth?
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 26, 2016 6:45 AM
Goldbrick
1405 posts
Apr 26, 2016
6:41 AM
recently got a swan 1040

every hole plays well -tone is good

bends easily so must not have windsavers

not sure how much use it will get but for$26 on Ebay I am quite pleased with it
dougharps
1212 posts
Apr 26, 2016
7:16 AM
@K_H

It LOOKS fine, and MAY be a wonderfully restored vintage instrument, but there is no way to tell until you play it, and that is if you know how it SHOULD play.

A couple years ago I bought a fully restored 270 (Eb) on line with a repaired crack, and it is OK, though I had to adjust some gaps. I put on a Hering mouthpiece because the 270 mouthpiece is uncomfortable for me. I paid $90 something, maybe a little more than I should have. But I am not an expert on how 270s should play since I prefer Herings and seldom use my few 270s or Chrometta 12s.

With a wood combed used instrument that has been restored/repaired it is a gamble. For that matter, any wood combed instrument could have unseen flaws, leaks, etc. Unless it is really inexpensive and you want to take a chance, I would look at something new, maybe with a guarantee, in case you have problems. Also, I would suggest you consider an instrument without a wood comb, since wood can crack with changes in temperature and humidity.
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Doug S.
ME.HarpDoc
143 posts
Apr 26, 2016
7:17 AM
I've got a Swan I like. I haven't really applied myself to Chrom yet but it plays well, no problem with sticking of slide. It's a 16 hole which you would want to get the low end octave (sounds great). I don't think Swan makes a tenor/baritone 12. But for starters at under $60 on Amazon, it's a good harp.

If I ever get serious about Chrom I'll probably buy a 12 hole tenor. Most likely Suzuki. I have a friend who regularly performs using Chrom for blues. He's got several Hohners and always has issues with valves and slides. Even he suggests acrylic comb.
Gnarly
1751 posts
Apr 26, 2016
7:21 AM
Killa, it looks nice, have you tried it?
Incidentally, I am working on some new CX-12 harps, tuning to diminished, and the top holes seem fine. These are the latest build, I'm liking them a lot.
No one year warranty, of course . . .
Goldbrick
1406 posts
Apr 26, 2016
8:24 AM
warranty,warranty,warranty,warranty,

I like Suzukis and own a bunch- from Hammond to Folkmaster- they have all worked well. That said- I buy for quality

I dont buy anything for the warranty- in fact when I sold multi million dollar computer enterprise systems- we expressley did not mention warranty

It was expected to work as designed

End of rant

Selling the warranty cheapens the product imho - implies you will be sorry if you dont have it
ie- you will need it
Gnarly
1752 posts
Apr 26, 2016
8:54 AM
Yeah, you're right. No more business discussions on this forum.
New but determined
74 posts
Apr 26, 2016
9:15 AM
Pricy Seydel Saxony 12 hole but I keep looking at this one- any input regarding this as a first chromatic or only one? Nice videos too. http://rockinronsmusicsd.com/seydel-saxony-chromatic-matt-covers-solo.html

Last Edited by New but determined on Apr 26, 2016 9:55 AM
Killa_Hertz
1181 posts
Apr 26, 2016
9:48 AM
Well this 280 has a plastic comb. Which was another thing that put me at ease. I realise you can never tell until you see it and play it, but i thought it looked pretty good. I don't have a chance to try it first. But i think it's cheap enough and in good enough shape that ill be alright.

I just needed to get my feet wet on something first. If I really get into it Ill have no problem paying for a quality instrument, but ... for now this looks pretty nice i think.


I ve been reading about different tunings and what not. I think that jazz cx12 is sweet. But its crazy expensive.
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Gnarly
1753 posts
Apr 26, 2016
10:54 AM
Overblow.com is a good site for alternate tunings, and they have a page for chromatics.

Chromatic tunings

Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 26, 2016 10:55 AM
RyanMortos
1556 posts
Apr 26, 2016
11:37 AM
Killa,

The Hohner Chromonica 280C new is like $220. I was looking at the value on ebay as I was considering marketing mine. Looks like they're anywhere between $60 and $115 averaging about $100. Getting a chromatic harmonica cleaned and checked out is like $20. Then if anything needs fixed it goes up. I don't think a used yet cleaned one is worth more then like $150/160.

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RyanMortosHarmonica

~Ryan

See My Profile for contact info, etc.

Crawforde
99 posts
Apr 26, 2016
11:41 AM
If you can get it cheap, knowing how you like to tinker, I'd go for it.
If you like it, there will be more chromes in different flavored anyway.
They are just as addictive as diatonics or potato chips.
Gotta go, I heard the bag rustle...
Blowhead9
69 posts
Apr 26, 2016
2:18 PM
Nothing sounds as good as the super 64, to me, but the extra octave makes it easy to get lost. The CX12 is perfect to start on. Chromatic is not hard to learn because every octave is the same. Unlike dystonic.
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Killa_Hertz
1184 posts
Apr 26, 2016
4:45 PM
Good input. I heard that the 64s sound great and it has that low octave, which i like. Well i picked up that 64 for about $60. I think it should do alright. The guy really went over it and fully restored it. So i dont have to clean it all up. Providing it plays as good as it looks, i dont think i could beat it. I guess I'll find out the hard way.

Any pointers as far as how to play the darn thing? Maybe a quick n dirty list of names to check on youtube.

So far the only videos ive really watched are from diatonic players. So. ...

I can figure most of it out by a Google search im sure, but just kinda wanted a quick who's who's in the chrom world.

Thanks yall.
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Crawforde
100 posts
Apr 26, 2016
5:32 PM
There are some good people to watch on here.
Check out Gnarley's stuff.
Ross is awesome, and has a couple cool vids he has posted.
It really depends on what you are into. The chromatic does it all.
Brendan Power if you are into Irish stuff, you probably know all the blues artists,...
Go to slidemeister.com. Some really good players post videos that you can find links too I. The tubemeister room.
WinslowYerxa
1132 posts
Apr 26, 2016
6:02 PM
Check out some of my instructional articles at http://winslowyerxa.com/articles/harmonica-sessions/
===========
Winslow

Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2016 for SPAH on the San Antonio River Walk!


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