I was given a gift of a rather cheap clip-on mic for an acoustic guitar and it's been gathering dust in the cupboard. I picked it up the other day and thought I wonder if it would work with a harp, so I attached it and ran it through my Vox DA5 amp and was pleasantly surpised.
I have yet to play around with the various settings that are available to me on this amp so this is just a first try. My webcam couldn't quite handle the chords but it gives you an idea. You might think, 'not for me thanks' or it's worth a try at the price as a novelty.
Funny you should post this, Owl. I found one of these while rummaging through a box of cables and stuff a couple of weeks ago (no idea where I got it - thought it might have been for the wife's fiddle, but she was mystified too) and tried the exact same thing with it. I was getting so much "contact" noise - from the cable, the mic itself etc. - that I stuck it back in the box and decided to leave it for another time. Maybe time to get it back out, mess around with the settings on my DA5, and see if I can get a usable sound out of it. Cheers, mate.
I have a clip on piezo element for am acoustic guitar. I clip it on my middle finger so that it rests against the back if the harp when i hold it. It's sorry of novelty as you said owl, but for the $1.50 i pays for it, it sounds great.
It's fun to play with. Totally clean signal. But if you wish to shape the sound with effects, it works just fine. You have to keep it tight against the harp or you get contact noise as tigher said. But its fun to play around with.
Havent messed with mine in a while. Never used it with the da5. Maybe ill play with it later. ----------
That sounds pretty good actually, a cheap and simple way to get clean-amplified sound, but a little raw not too hi-fi.
I do like title, you've really tuned into the YouTube way. "Best harp mic EVER. Professional mic customizers are trying to get this BANNED."
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 18, 2016 6:54 AM
The hardest part of putting the vid together was extending the measly 2ft lead with its 6.3mm jack. I don't own a 6.3mm in line socket connector so I had to put a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter on the end of the clip-on lead jack and connect it to a 3.5mm in line socket connecter then attach a 1 metre mini jack lead and at the other end connect 3.5mm jack to 6.3mm adapter to plug into my amp. Then there was earth hum so I had to throw the lead across my shoulder and stuff it down my collar so it touched my neck and cancelled the hum and job done!!!
Tiggertoo1962 I agree it does have a bit of handling noise but once cupped and with minimal hand movements it's manageable. It's definitely worth trying again.
Killa I had one of these a while back (the type which you stick on the face of the guitar with acoustic putty) and it wasn't too bad but it had more handling noise even though I stuck it on the back of the harp with the putty. Don't know if covering the top with blu-tak would minimise the handling noise on this type and my clip-on.
VallyDuke. Yeah go for it mate!
Mind the Gap :) Yep I feel I've been far too understated with my Youtube titles so I cranked it up a bit!
EDIT TO ADD This one looks identical to the one I was given
Mine is slightly different. Mine has it so there is a full usable surface outside the clip. So like i said ... i clip it on my middle finger, right between my hand and my knuckle, and the element rests right against the back of the harp as i play. It still has a bit of handling noise but not much.
The price went up. I checked my amazon account and i only paid $2.45 for it. It also works great as its intended, to plug into a tuner for guitar.
Ah OK Killa that sounds useful to attach it to your finger and that is really cheap at $2.45!
One last lo-fi sample recorded on my phone this time. I reduced the volume a bit. I placed my phone about 4 ft from the amp wheras in the first sample I placed my zoom H2n about a foot. I don't know what's recommended. I think the phone has lost some of the reverb? but as I said I did reduce the volume post processing as it was peaking a lot.
I'm always thinking that I'm going to stumble on some great broken up groovy sound on the cheap like Dave Davies of the Kinks when he slashed the speaker cone of his amp to get that dirty sound on 'You really got me' :)
This is the first take at different recorded distance.
I can't help it - I love that sound @Grey! My local guitar center didn't have them, so I'm going to get one off Amazon.
I think I like the idea of carrying a harp and mic in your pocket. Just go around pluggin the mic into stuff and see what happens. Or go to the music store, try out amps, and annoy the guitar players!
Plus, we've got our phones full of music - an iPhone, mic, and harp is all you need.
Hey that’s great ValleyDuke! Couldn’t agree more The portability of the harp is one of its strong selling points so why not Mic as well :) and to take it one step further…..
Here is another addition to the portable range ‘Buskers Paradise’ ;)
I’m using a Jam Speaker (it has line in and Bluetooth connection) and a mini Sony Condenser mic (The Teddy Bear stand is optional). It’s not going to deafen you but it is enough to crank up the sound a bit in a nice acoustic Busking site. Unfortunately no reverb or effects….umm there must be an app I can use here.
BTW I think I should not have lowered the volume on the sound samples 1 & 2 I provided above for the clip-on demo. I did it because the wav file showed a lot of clipping.
Here they are again at original volume.
Sample 2 above cupped and no volume reduction.
And here is sample 1 above cupped and no volume reduction
And here is a new short sample demonstrating first cupped, then uncupped.
I think these all sound interesting (and in a good way :). I'm beginning to suspect it's your playing that sounds good though rather than the kit! Hmmm only one way to tell...
I reckon that by going for this cleanish sound rather than the stereotypical crazy-distortion-with-cheap-mic, you've hit on something. It's a sort of lo-fi sound, but not actually distorted, I'm imagining it over a band.
And, good grief, I've got that condenser mic too, from a now defunct mini-disc player - aaah remember them? That was proper digital recording back in the good old days like Grandpa used to tell me about :) I'm waiting for the revival. It's pretty good quality actually, I've never tried cupping it though.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 20, 2016 4:54 AM
MTG Thanks for the heads up on the html issue, pleased to see it fixed.
Cheers & Ha what a coincidence! I too have a soft spot for the old mini disc player. It's still sitting neglected in the bottom of my odds&sods draw though with a handful of blank mini discs but the mic seems pretty pleased to have been plucked from obscurity.
Ok last sample (I'm having far too much fun playing round with this clipon mic!) Here it is pushed to the point of feedback with tone and gain turned up but playing something clean.
Can't seem to get the amp to produce a tone that breaks up though.
Hi Isaac. I've just found a LINK for the one I have on Amazon UK and its cheaper than the one I referenced above and is only £2.78. (4 dollars) Can you buy off Amazon UK easy? Edit looks like it would be around 6 dollars delivery to the US.
Thanks for the rack mention, I'm definitely going to try that. I've just got to figure out a way of covering the pickup to mimic a cupped sound.
You know that it sounds pretty nice clean anyway if you don't want that full tone.
Here is the one I referenced a sort of slow stacatto noodle on Clean 2 setting with tone gain and master at around 2 o'clock with reverb recorded straight to my smartphone about 4 ft away.
EDIT TO ADD Isaac This is the LINK Killa posted to his one which is going to be a cheaper option for you. Also if you hold the harp deep in your mouth my clipon might get in the way whereas Killas is held at the back of the harp.
Owl. I dont think you ll have any luck overdriving with the piezo. Not unless you use pedals or effects of some kind. The element just doesnt act the same.
But its funny you mentioned the portable rig. I brought this up in one of my first posts on this forum. I use my clip on mic and an LM386 amp with jfet buffer i made. Its about the size of a stompbox with an 1.5 speaker. Like a lil smokey, but better.
I also have used the clipon plugged into my zoom multistomp, and a danelectro honeytone. You can really shape the sound even though is just flat. But i now use an extra dm13 with the same setup. I keep it in my car for playing around or testing flea market gear.
If you have an i phone (i dont 8^( ) you can get alot of cool amp and effects apps. They Have them for android, but the latency issues make them just about useless.
But the setup you have with the lil bluetooth speaker is killer. Check the appstore. Add effects to that lil rig.
I have an ipod i could probably use. I just might steal that idea. ----------
@Killa: Whoops! My bad! Totally missed the link in your first post. Thanks man!
@ GreyOwl: thanks for the other link too! Good to know the brand name so's I can search around for it. Might be cheapest to find on eBay and direct ship from China (at least I've found that to be the case for this type of thing). I listened to the clean tones again, and I really like it! I'm playing pretty clean these days mostly, with just delays and reverbs, so this could work very well for my needs! Ukulele and rack harp reggae, here I come! Lol! ----------
Thanks for that Killa. I'm going to check the app situation out. My wife has got an I phone, maybe she'll swap it for my Samsung S3.....
On the rig above I was thinking a Bluetooth mic would be handier still than the sony mic, don't know about the quality of these though. For a cupped sound on a rack I was wondering if I could slice the top off a balloon and stretch the bottom bit over the ends of the harp, holding the clip on steady and running the lead out through the blow end and tying off. It'll probably ping off and smack me in the face mid solo but I'm going to play around with it anyway.
Haha Isaac, I like it! BTW Here is a LINK to Harmonica John demonstrating his cupped sound setup on a harp rack. It sounds great.
Edit to add. Well Isaac I've just attached the harp plus clipon mic to my harp rack. Couldn't find a balloon so stuffed a disposable rubber glove around it! It didn't produce a cupped sound of course but might have taken the edge off a bit.
This is the clean 2 on the Vox again etc., though a little less tone and gain and master. Using an acoustic nylon strung guitar. It felt pretty comfortable playing the rack I have to say though the clipon felt a touch close to the lips. I must say I like the sound it produced. Nice and clean and the tone worked well with the folky noodle I think. I used the Zoom H2n recorder.
OK, inspired by GreyOwl's glove experiment, this morning I dug out one of my past mic experiments and gave this a try. The mic was a cheap dynamic tape-recorder mic I'd found in a thrift shop, and which I'd chopped down to make a "stealth" mic that I could hold in a cupped hand. The ergonomics were always kind of crappy, so I never used it much, despite it being perfectly cuppable and with a not terrible overdriven sound.
So, I thought why not see if I can use that glove idea with this mic? Here's the pics:
Here's some quick soundfiles I recorded on my cell phone. All are the mic through my Zoom G3 with my "Amped Harp" patch, into my Peavy Studio Pro 40 amp.
The mic held in free air just behind the harp:
The mic cupped to the back of the harp:
The mic attached to the back of the harp via the glove and all held in a rack:
So, after listening back a couple times: The glove definitely has an effect. It's not the same as real cupping, however, because I think that while it does produce an airtight seal, it doesn't produce as soundtight a seal as does your hands. I think the glove rubber is just to thin to properly contain the sound. One could try using a thicker rubber glove (like to clean dishes), but I think we'd have to go thicker still. I've heard of people having much success with neoprene "beer coozies". One would have to modify the coozie to work with this mic (or the clip on mics), but I think that it wouldn't be too hard to do. With enough gaffer's tape, anything is possible!!!
So, that'll be my next experiment, as soon as I can get my hands on a coozie.
PS. I'm still eager to get one of the clip-on style mics, as I really like the clean sounds that Grey Owl is getting with it!
I like what you've done there Isaac. I can't access the sound files on my phone but will check them out when I get to my pc. Thanks for that. ----------
@GreyOwl: Let me know if you can't get the soundfiles at home either. I'm hosting them through dropbox, but they are just wav files. I can send you direct links if needed.
@Killa: I indeed do have a box full of piezo's! And I've stuck them on a lot of things! The main problem with piezo's is that they are really shrill and feedback prone unless properly potted (meaning, embedded in epoxy or glue or something). I have one potted piezo that was for a heart monitor or something, and it works the best as a contact mic. I use it on my melodica, but it's too big to "stick" properly to a harp. I thought the clip design was a cool way to solve that!
The piezo rods are something I have yet to play around too much with. However, from what I understand, they too work better when really sandwiched under a saddle (ie., not in free air). I wonder if you could hot glue one into the "crimp" on the back (open side) of a coverplate? Might have to give that a try. If it works, you'd have to do it to each and every one of your harps though, lol!
Oh, and I have that transducer pickup you linked at the end of your post. It's a magnetic coil pickup, so, sadly won't work with harmonica. I thought it might work with stainless steel reed harps, but sadly it does not. It works just ok as a soundhole pick up in my acoustic guitar. Actually, it was a pretty disappointing purchase, and I don't use it currently. ----------
Yay back to PC land! Thanks for those samples Isaac. It's amazing what can be achieved with these cheap gizmos. I liked the gloved one best and the first one was good also, a nice clean sound. I think it's a difficult thing to expect a decent overdriven sound on this type of equipment but it's fun trying!
I noticed that Harmonica John used quite a thick piece of rubber like drain unblocker plunger! and loads of tape.
There are tons of cheap toys out there. These were just a few.
Maybe you could consider recessing the element into something solid. I realize this is too big, but like a half of a tennis ball. Or even cut a pill botlle in half and use the bottom, with the element down inside, then seal it up with epozy so that you have a space just big enough to fit the harp in.
that was just off the top of my head. if i really think about it I could come up with something much better. But .... just a little something to help the wheels turning. ----------
@Killa: That's a good idea! Hmmmm... Is there some sort of container that's already sort of harp shaped? Maybe I could fabricate something out of milk jug plastic and tape... Potting the piezo with epoxy will help tame the shrill and also help with feedback.
I have an old Hi Z lavaliere mic that is about the size of a silver dollar but thicker. I glued a ring to the back and sliped it on my forth finger. Great hand effects could be had but the thing was too dirty. I still use it in the shop for testing amps. I liked the ring setup, it just stayed in place with no effort and was like playing acoustically...BN
BN i have 2 akai adm 6 mics. They are super tiny and pretty dirty. Similar to a dm13 in sound just less powerful and a tad less high end. But i considered chopping one and adding a ring so that i could have a mic with hand effects. I have madcat, but it's not that great. I wanted to try to fit the adm 6 and xfmr inside it aswell, but it's too big i think.
Isaac. If you really wanted to get fancy you could use kydex. Form it to click on and over the back of the harp. And form fit the element in there.
And actually if your going that far, might Aswell use a good dynamic element and hiz xfmr.
You would have to make a different kydex holster for each standard model. And the element/xfmr could be like a self contained lil capsule that you would stick into the holster before you click it on.
And you would have to make small holes in the kydex to allow the air to and from the harp. These Also would serve a double function when you cup/uncup the harp. But if you did it right it would be more like playing a harp acoustically. Instead of having to cup a mic. Plus you would get the great hand effects.
As im writing this im realising that this is just an improved compact version of the tsunami mic. I ve never used it or seen one in person, but ....
Anyways just a rambling random idea. But i think it could be good.
@Kill: Kydex!! That's pure genius, my man! Why didn't I ever think of that? I've seen a bunch of online tutorials for making knife sheaths out of it, and I know it's available pretty cheaply these days due to high useage by "makers". It seems like the perfect material for this kind of project. Yeah, and why not put a decent dynamic element in it?! This is sounding very doable and fun... Might not be able to prototype it until after I move this summer, but this is getting me very excited! Ima definitely as DD this to my list of diy harp projects! Let's keep brainstorming this in the mean time. ----------
Haha. I have my moments. Both of the ideas in this thread ... i just thought of as i was typing. But those are often the best ideas .. the spontaneous ones.
Kydex is good stuff. I used it to make a holster for my PX4 Storm. You form it to whatever it is you want to fit in it. And it fits so good it pretty much clicks in.
It's pretty easy to work with too.
My thought pretty much went like this. Think of a Manji coverplate rear profile. Now imagine that the kydex is formed so that it just clicks over the lip on the edge and hangs over about 1/8". Now you have a hard flat kydex back to the harp. The kydex snaps onto the harp and is so tight fitting that you cant even play the harp because it's so airtight.(hypothetically) Now you have to add holes for your playing air to come thru. Which will also allow for cupping and hand wah effects to the element. (Mind you this is all in a perfect world. ) Now you take a very small tube and make a small mic. Element and hiz xfmr and add a chord to it. Similar to the shaker madcat, except i might use a female ended cable. Or To make it smaller in the hands, you could just put the element in the kydex and put the xfmr in a small tube at the end of the cable. And put a 1/4" jack in the tube. Similar to an inline hiz transformer, but built in. The point is to try to make it as close to playing acoustically as possible. And i think this could accomplish that. Cupping a mic is such a pain sometimes. I just want to be able to play like i can with just a harp in hand. Using hand effects and all. Plus with a good dynamic element you could use it to play overdriven and crunchy.
Anyways, its a pain to write so much on my phone so I'm done .... lol.
But yea we can come up with some good $__ !!! .. lol. No doubt. I got mad ideas about stuff to make. The problem is finding the motivation to actually prototype it.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 23, 2016 7:20 PM
Hey Thanks Killa! Some nice ideas to work on. I love it when these type of threads develop in unexpected ways and cool ideas emerge.
I was thinking along similar lines with a 'shell' surrounding the harp, maybe a piece of that 1 1/2" dia. sink waste pipe cut along its length (assuming there is enough flexibility in it to open it and clip it on to the back of the harp. Might produce that playing into a beaker sound.
Although I really don't want to get involved with balloons, tennis balls, Kydex and duct tape, I'd like you to know that the sounds you've been putting up have given me a kick to search for other tones.
There's something good about those non-distorted sounds you are getting, but they're not fully clean either. What I'd call Lo-Fi - there's a kind of mouthy sound to them. I'm thinking the in-between pickup switch settings on a strat.
Some of the older songs I'm listening to at the moment seem to have amped harp tones that seem more in this territory than the modern oomphy power-sounds.
I want to explore this with conventional shop-bought mics though!
Apologies, I can see that's a slur or your professionalism :) I'd never heard of Kydex before, sounds like a DIYer's dream material. Maybe it's not made it over the pond yet - like nylons and chewing gum, we have to wait.
I am going to try out the contact mic though. However I refer you to again Exhibit A. Ok, so no actual duct tape mentioned - but definitely from the same stable:
...I had to put a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter on the end of the clip-on lead jack and connect it to a 3.5mm in line socket connecter then attach a 1 metre mini jack lead and at the other end connect 3.5mm jack to 6.3mm adapter to plug into my amp. Then there was earth hum so I had to throw the lead across my shoulder and stuff it down my collar so it touched my neck and cancelled the hum and job done!!!
Haha OK guilty as charged. Its too late for me I think but the tablets are helping ;) But I warn you now MTG it starts off all innocent like this with a contact mic....but this way madness lies!!!
Ok, I was out in the shed yesterday going through all my tools and scraps of crap I've been keeping (side note: moving is a pain in the ass!). I came across some left over bits of plastic and rubber piping and hose from installing a couple new bathroom vanities last year. The kydex idea and GreyOwl's pipe idea came flashing back at me! Looking at the pieces I have, I've got two things that I'm going to try to prototype tomorrow night:
1) I'm going to try to use a small piece of 1 1/2" diameter plastic down-tube (the kind used in the P-trap of sink) that I'm going to try to convert into a kind of slide-on clip to hold a small mic up to the back of the harp. I'd cut it into a "C" shape, and then drill a hole in the back of the C to thread the mic cable through, wedging the mic into the middle of the "C". This would simulate holding a mic in free air. It would work for an acoustic sound in a rack or handheld. If handheld, it might allow for some cool wah-wah effects, and could be cupped up too, I suppose.
2) I've got about six inches of 1" rubber hose. The hose is about 3/16" thick, so it's pretty sturdy. I'm thinking of cutting a slit, or cutting out a flap from the center of it, where I could insert a harp. I'd close off one end, and then wedge the small dynamic mic in the other side. In theory, this should give a very tight-cupped type of sound. It could be used on a rack, or hand held, with one hand, for example. This could be very useful for those of us multitaskers, allowing a cupped sound while playing guitar, Ukulele, keyboards, cajon, etc...
I will report back with the results of my experiments! ----------
