blueswannabe
602 posts
Apr 11, 2016
12:59 PM
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I have a whole bunch of harps sitting around that need 1 or 2 reeds replaced and was thinking about investing some money into a reed replacement kit that works. I know some people use screws and others rivets, any thoughts on which works best, and any recommendations?
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Apr 11, 2016 1:00 PM
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Tyler
24 posts
Apr 11, 2016
1:17 PM
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Reusing the rivets takes some practice but is fast, accurate, and simple. I am about to try screws but I needed a new tapping tool for the holes. One of the cons of rivets is the possibility of bending the reedplate while removing or adding reeds.
My first replacement tools were a hammer and a small nail with the point flattened. Now I'm a little more precise.
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SuperBee
3595 posts
Apr 11, 2016
2:39 PM
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I did the first couple hundred with screws but now I use rivets whenever it's feasible.
Using screws is more work but it's very controlled and works well. It's fiddly work (I guess). You can position the reed 'just so'.
Using rivets is faster but if it 'goes wrong' that's faster too. You can still have some influence over reed alignment but it's maybe a bit more learned judgement than with screws. Generally if the reed was aligned well in the first place there's not much of an issue there.
It's faster and uses fewer tools. I was shy of it at first which is why I went with screws but Richard Sleigh convinced me to go with rivets. His reed anvil/punch combination tool is pretty good bit of gear too...not super cheap, but all-in-one and convenient and tidy. Andrew Zajac sells a very reasonably priced kit.
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Gnarly
1739 posts
Apr 11, 2016
3:19 PM
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I like to use the rivets in donor reeds, but if it is a new reed, I usually go with screws.
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blueswannabe
603 posts
Apr 11, 2016
6:19 PM
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is there any difference in performance of the reeds between screws and rivets?
also, screws need to be cut and filed done once reed installed? any issues there?
thanks for all the advice.
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SuperBee
3597 posts
Apr 11, 2016
7:08 PM
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A well-executed repair with screw or rivet works equally well.
There are different approaches to using screws. You can do a post and nut, where the head of screw is on the non-reed side of the plate, and you tighten a nut down on the reed. This is usually no problem for blow reeds as long as the post does not hit the covers and the covers provide sufficient clearance for the nut. On solid comb harps it can require you to cut a relief in the comb if you mend draw reeds this way. On special 20s it's fine.
The other way is to just screw down directly onto the reed, so the head of the screw secures the reed to the plate. Again, on draw reeds this can be an issue require you to either cut a relief in the comb or cut the protruding shaft off flush and sand flat. Nbd.
I used to worry the screws would come loose, and I always warned clients of the possibility and asked them to let me know of any problems. To the best of my knowledge none of the repairs I made this way ever came loose.
It remains a possibility.
One thing that's a bit tricky initially at least, is tightening the screw while maintaining reed alignment. Youll work out a way to do it.
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JustFuya
894 posts
Apr 11, 2016
10:52 PM
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I've been curious which type of tap people use when installing a reed. I've never done it so I'm not that curious but I've never heard it mentioned on the forum. I believe the two choices are roll (aka form) or cutting taps. Each one has its advantages.
I think I'd have both types on hand and choose either depending on the situation or material. For example, form taps are great if your hole is oversize but not necessarily optimum for harder materials. And so on .....
As I said, just curious.
Last Edited by JustFuya on Apr 11, 2016 10:53 PM
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florida-trader
894 posts
Apr 12, 2016
11:07 AM
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I generally use a rivet but that's because most of the replacement reeds I use come from donor plates that already have a rivet. If you are careful, it is easy to remove a reed from a donor plate and leave the rivet in. Just poke it out part way from the back side of the plate using whatever your tool of preference is (mine is the R. Sleigh Reed Removal Tool) and then pull it off the rest of the way with a pair of flush cut pliers. Then you can insert the rivet and reed into the plate that is being repaired. I only use a screw when the first step described above goes awry. Using a screw now means you have to enlarge the hole in both the reed and reed plate (more work). The kind of tap you would use is dictated by which size screw you are using. 0-80's, 0-90's and 1.4mm seem to be the screws of choice. It used to be a nightmare trying to find screws and taps. Not any more. Go on eBay and hunt for screws - dirt cheap. I find taps on Amazon. Again, very inexpensive.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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arzajac
1758 posts
Apr 12, 2016
11:16 AM
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Killa, I much prefer a cutting tap. I am a little obsessed with flatness and a cutting tap will not distort the plate so much. I will change the size of my hole as needed (just use a bigger screw). But most rivet holes are smaller than an M1.4 screw which is what I will start with.
I only use stainless screws. Screws need to be cut and filed (it's a pain but that only needs to take a few moments). I think it's important to make sure the exposed surface of the screw doesn't rust over time. A lot of the screws you can find are for electronics and are not made to get wet.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
Last Edited by arzajac on Apr 12, 2016 11:17 AM
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arzajac
1759 posts
Apr 12, 2016
11:26 AM
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...One more thing...
A simple trick to keeping the reed aligned while you tighten the screw is to pinch the living daylights out of the base of the reed as you drive in the screw. You are pressing the reed into the slot. Once you get the screw tight beyond a reasonable point, the reed won't shift, it will just pivot and you should be able to pivot it back without loosening the screw.
You *will* change the shape of the reed so stop worrying about it!
You can fix it afterwards. It's not reasonable to assume that (using any method) you just pop in the reed and it's ready to go, properly shaped and in-tune. Reed replacement is a little more complicated than just replacing the reed...
But *you can do it*! Just practice a little and have reasonable expectations. For example, I expect that using a screw will take a few minutes longer than using a rivet. But I also expect that one-in-twenty replacements using rivets will become a little more complicated and may end up taking more time than if I had just used a screw in the first place. That's pretty much why I mostly use screws.... But using rivets is okay, too.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
Last Edited by arzajac on Apr 12, 2016 11:27 AM
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nacoran
9022 posts
Apr 12, 2016
12:26 PM
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Andrew, I'm picturing trying to keep the reed straight and pinching, and I'm thinking it wouldn't be too hard to design a clip of some sort that would hold the reed straight, sort of a hybrid between a harp wrench and the way a bottle opener clips over a bottle cap, only maybe a little wider on the point where it contacts the reed plate so it doesn't act like a fulcrum.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
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dchurch
36 posts
Apr 17, 2016
9:50 AM
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Blueswan,
I use the rivet system, except for my Suzuki harps.
I ditto Tom's post. I use a punch to loosen the rivet part way out then a small pair of flush side cutters to pull the donor rivet/reed, press it part way into its new home, tap it in, and align.
Screws require more tinkering and also a drill press. I use a Proxxon drill press http://www.proxxon.com/en/
Brendan Power published this Youtube video on the screw system for replacing welded reeds. Much of it applies to using screws in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kChMKU7LEVo
Regarding your kit. It's a pretty small investment for the rivet system. You do not need to buy a "kit". You can put one together (screwdriver, small hammer, couple of punches, micro engraver, side cutter, reed wrench). The only special part of my rivet kit is the anvil, which is a piece of flat steel with a shallow slot cut down the middle of it. I don't use a de-riveting tool.
This battery powered engraver is a bit cheap but it's functional enough for light rivet grinding and tuning reeds. http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-engraver-98227.html
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It's about time I got around to this.
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snowman
187 posts
Apr 18, 2016
7:38 AM
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I use screws and star nuts I bought from 'harponline' when they were still in business--Thankfully I bought enough to last awhile--Not sure what size----Have to look that up--Seydell may sell them---I think seydell sells the wrench and or repair kit for this method---all my stuff is at my shop??
Like andrews method of pushing 'base' of reed down---will have to try--
I've tried putting paper strip in slot then push reed into slot--[paper suppose to keep reed centered] I personally had no luck at that
so as what works best for "me" --
1]is to push and hold reed in slot
2]Tighten down and hope it takes on first one
maybe use .001 shim to move a little
3] don't mess with trying to center to much just keep
re- doing steps 1 and 2 until it takes--
usually get by 3rd try---
RATHUR THAN TRYING TO PUSH REED TO CENTER
'
thats only what works best for me'
-lossening push reed in
tighten
test
then do it again --no forcing
when set I may have to clip some screw off
then I put fingernail polish on star nut, each end of screw and reed base--
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