I don’t know if I’ve just been unlucky but my Chromatics have let me down. I’m only an occasional player but I do like to use them for soulful ballads as they just offer something more than diatonics and no intonation issues on pleasant ballads.
I used to have no problems or rare ones anyway with my trusty Hohner Chromonica 40 Harmonica Key Of C. Basic Riveted reed plates to wooden combs, no frills but nice tone and pretty reliable.
Anyway a couple of years back I bought a Bends Tonica Chromatic 48 in the sale only to find a weak response on the higher notes and a very weedy 1 hole draw. Tried adjusting it but no use. Thought I’d send it back but they couldn’t refund this sale item and worse than that Bends went out of business so I was stuck with this useless harp.
A few months ago I decided to buy a Hohner 280 C mainly to get the lower octave holes for melodies below C. Lots of clacking reeds though even playing carefully. Sent it back and it was sent to a UK Hohner guy. He crimped up the ends of the upper of the two part windsavers on some of the lower holes but I still wasn’t overly impressed. Don’t think the tone is great either compared to my old Harp.
I had to play a piece the other evening and the slide started sticking badly when practicing though I’ve only played it rarely and I tried to address this but couldn’t trust it so I returned to my old trusty Chromonica 40 and practised the song with no problems. Tapped it out put it in it’s box and disaster struck on the performance when the 2 blow just jammed up!! There must be a better way of designing these things (don’t care for the CX12).
I'm no expert on Chrom for sure but I think my favorite I've ever had is a Suzuki SCX48. I have a G which has served me very well. I usually do slower stuff, not the fast jazzy work at all. A few swing-y things here and there. I've had this one in use for about 4-5 years now. Note I don't use the slide. I started with Hohner Chromettas which I blew out quickly. 270 was a disaster for me and I actually gave a couple away. I do have a Hering 5148 in low C which has been a pretty good one. That's the only 2 I use regularly and have not killed. ---------- Reverbnation
Don't muck around Grey Owl.....I reckon you gotta spend a bit of cash to get something good! I lashed out a few years back on a Seydel Saxony ( sure...diatonic's mostly my thing!) and have not looked back...
Sometimes windsavers stick down on the reed plate or buzz, especially if the harp is cold, and sometimes for no apparent reason.
I have read about a lot of ways to address windsaver problems, like waxing the reed plate, or cleaning between the windsaver layers with newspaper, or cutting the windsaver just short of the end of the reed slot, or lightly scoring the reed plate so the the surface doesn't adhere to the windsaver, or replacing the windsavers with newer, better ones.
If one note is acting up I will work on that one. I will lift it, separate layers, slightly bend it, press it down again, and generally just mess with it until it works. I have never pursued treating all my windsavers because it seemed like a hassle for an intermittent problem. Since I play multiple keys of chromatics, it would involve working on a LOT of windsavers. If it ain't broke, I don't "fix" it.
IMPORTANT: I have found that sometimes when I switch to chromatic after playing diatonic for a while I am playing too hard, and a chromatic reed may choke. That seems to be the issue for me most times when a chromatic note won't sound. You CAN adjust gaps, but it is more difficult than on a diatonic.
If you decide to adjust a reed or windsaver, keep in mind that the reed for any given note is in a different place (different reed plate!) depending on whether the chromatic is cross tuned or straight tuned. Straight tuned means that whether the button is in or out, all the slide openings are on the top or the bottom at the same time. Cross tuned has slide holes zig-zag top and bottom for each successive hole. On a cross tuned chromatic make sure you have the correct reed before messing with it!
Oh, don't allow foreign objects like pocket lint or food particles to get in your harp! That can jam up a reed. It is a problem on a diatonic and maybe worse on a chromatic. You can't easily rinse them out due to windsavers and some having an unsealed wood comb.
Chromatic mouthpiece slides can stick, either through being poorly adjusted, or having been bumped knocking them out of alignment, or most often due to saliva setting like glue. If the mouthpiece screws are not too tight, and the mouthpiece hasn't been knocked out of place, it is probably spit. If the mouthpiece was out of place you can loosen the screws, realign and gently tighten, but not so much as to make the slide stick. If that happens, loosen until it works right again.
A simple solution for a spit-glued slide, without disassembly, is putting the chromatic mouthpiece down in a shallow plate or pan with enough water to get in the mouthpiece, but not deep enough to get in the comb. Work the slide to dissolve the spit. For an on the spot fix, some have advised using an eyedropper with water and putting one or two drops in the end of the slide (button up) and working it.
Occasionally if a slide on a chromatic seems prone to frequent sticking I take the mouthpiece apart and gently polish the parts with toothpaste on my finger, then thoroughly rinse the parts clean, patting dry before reassembly. Don't bend the mouthpiece parts!
Chromatics require maintenance at times, but for me are worth the trouble.
Some other chromatic folks on this list may have other ideas or even some contrary to mine. I hope they post, too. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Mar 27, 2016 8:27 AM
My biggest bugbear is with the Chromonica 280C which is practically brand new and hardy played.
Reed Clacking and sticking slide (when the mouthpiece is clean.)
I decided to take the mouthpiece off and inspect the 3 part assembly plates. All pristine and clean. I then ran my fingers along the plates to see if they were sticky and found there to be sharp edges on each plate where the holes had been cut out. These jagged edges were apparently snagging against each other and causing the jam.
I ran a tiny screwdriver to gently buff down the jagged edges, washed and dried them and then reassembled adding tiny drops of water onto the slide at the button end held it vertically and operated the button a few times and its fixed.
I don't see why customers should have to do this when you spend good money on these products.New valves clacking while playing light is a mystery. I don't know if Hohner have changed windsavers or they have alternatives available but I couldn't record with this.
The number one problem with chromatics have always been the windsaver valves and when you buy a brand new 16 hole chromatic from Hohner, regardless of the model, the ones on the bottom octave, the notorious "bubble valves," are always the very first to fail and I've never been a fan of them. You can always buy replacement sets from Hohner directly, but they won't have the bubble valve and personally, the ones without them from personal experience always tends to work better.
Some of the reasons for failure includes moisture sticking to the valves and those who use a lot of breath force also tend to give off the most moisture as well and then they tend to stick to the valves.
Hering chromatics always have problems out of the box initially when you first play them but they go away the more they've been played and again, that comes with experience..
Chromatics have always needed more maintenance the diatonics as a rule and keeping the mouthpiece/slide assembly as clean as possible has always been an imperative.
If you don't have the windsavers, a chromatic is a much tougher instrument to play because wheras on a diatonic, the main air leaks come from reed plates not being flush flat on the comb and reed slot tolerances that are too wide, but with chromatics, you have also have that, but in addition, air leakage is also coming from the mouthpiece/slide assembly. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I don't think I use a lot of force on the Chromatic but I'm not the driest of players. I really do have to baby those bottom 4 holes and to a lesser extent hole 5. It's very off putting because I'm using a natural breath force across the harp and they have to choke back to play those lower holes and there is often still a light clacking sound.
I am not certain what the Bubble Valves mean? The windsavers I have are the two part type and the top windsaver has been arced up at the free end and back down again to touch the lower windsaver by the Hohner technician.
I will look into ordering new windsavers from Hohner but was wondering what the difference is with what I have got.
Thanks once again.
I am not a regular or technical Chrome Player but I do like to use them on occasion for pleasant melodies such as this.
Most windsaver valves are two part with the top part helping to provide downward pressure to work more like the way a turbo charger works in an automobile, recirculating the air so you can get more volume because chromatics, aerodynamically speaking, are quite inefficient when compared to a diatonic.
Take off the cover plates on your 280 and look at the shape of the valves in the bottom octave. You should see the shape of them is quite different than the ones on the rest of the instrument and they're somewhat shaped like a rectangular shaped bubble so there's more downward pressure on the valve.
The best seal came from the old leather valves that were used on chromatics made prior to WWII, but once the leather got dried up, they would curl up, lose their shape and became annoyingly useless and required much more maintenance than the plastic ones that replaced them.
It helps to keep a tweezer handy to help make adjustments to the windsavers. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Chromatics require much more care than diatonics. Windsavers are a pain in the shorts, but also help make it more airtight. The clearances on the Suzuki chromatic mouth piece are very close, so I recommend the upside down in the pan of water treatment, that helps. I also recommend only tapping the slide against your temple, that way you won't bend the slide. Here in the US, Suzuki chromatics come with a one year warranty, that won't help you keep it clean but it does come in handy when you drop it or blow out a reed.
Here are a couple of photos of the top and bottom of the 280C showing the type of windsaver and the adjustment made. I don't know if this windsaver is more or less prone to clacking and if you are familiar with this type.
As far as I am aware the Hohner Harp Tech just worked on adjusting the Hohner windsavers that were fitted on the new manufacturer supplied Hohner Chromonica 280C.
The lower ones are translucent with a dotted pattern and the upper ones semi-translucent with the exception of the pair of white upper valves one of which, on each side, have been crimped. ----------
Must be the new Hohner ones--I've not seen translucent from them, but they are easier to center when you can see thru them. Chroms are a pain in the butt, but fun once you get one to settle down.
@Grey Owl -- Looks like Hohner finally smartened up and got rid of the bubble valves. There's a bent valve and an easy fix that may take a bit of patience is to get something like a baby pin or a paper clip and then VERY GENTLY stroke it back into its proper position and avoid putting a crease in it. I also wonder if you play them a bit more if, like in the case of Hering, the noise eventually goes away because valves on Hering chromatics have been, as I said before, notoroius for going nuts until you've played them for awhile, sort of needing a bit of a break in period. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@Barbequebob The valves in all fairness do look good but the crimping was a deliberate attempt by the Hohner Tech by all accounts to minimise the noise on what he identified were two of the noisier holes. He did tell me that a certain degree of noise could be expected. I hope you're right Bob and with further playing the issue will disappear or be less noticeable at least.
I do enjoy playing Chromatics from time to time and it's an instrument I would like to get good at. It would also be a little easier for me to get to grips with playing to sheet music on a chromatic instrument.
It's really not the fault of the windsavers--not that they don't cause issues of their own--it's the fact that the low reeds swing so wide that they hit the windsavers. If you gap lower, you won't be able to play as loud, but the reeds don't swing as wide, mitigating that issue.
OK Gnarly I'll bear that in mind if things don't improve and do a trial, slight closing of the gap on the most troublesome hole.
All the best with your new venture Joel. The harps and cases look great, I’m seriously tempted!
By the way if you want a direct clickable link to your Website, Facebook and Youtube pages then copy and paste the following code into your MBH Online signature:-
I have 4 Chroms & I understand your concerns, I am a damp breather and get lots of problems with valves sticking and popping especially on my Suzuki SCX 48. I have a couple of older Hohner Chromonica ie a Larry Adler 16 and a very old (50 years) both are nice harps ie great tone and not a lot of windsaver problems but are very leaky airy and noisy.
A harp I have been using most which is relatively trouble free is the Hohner Discovery. It has dimpled windsavers. Have not had any real problems with the windsavers. I do however have a problem with hole 1 ie not noisy or popping but slow response.
I would never trust myself to use a chrom for a public performance as the instruments do fail me (my fault ...must be! I always warm up my chroms & at home keep them warm on the top of my PC. If I didn't warm them they would stick & pop on me after moments of playing. ---------- HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
All I work on is Hohner chroms and yes these Hohner moisture proof valves. They have been out for at least 4 years now. No they are not more prone to crackling or any noise. Just the opposite! These do not require warming up!
I read this thread with great interest because I am a novice and I don't have any bias from the past when it comes to old issues which influence thinking on current ones. I received a Hohner Super 64 Chromonica for my birthday in January. (I wanted it to expand my blues repertoire but also to learn one very special tune. Summertime, was the song my wife sang to comfort our children when they were small and I want to play it so I can accompany her when she sings to the grandsons,) I have noodled around with it since I got it, learned a lot from Winslow's website and I got a tab of the song from the internet. The first thing I learned was that changing my embouchure was imperative but moreso the playing style had to be so much more relaxed. Anyway, most of the noises I read about above only happen when I blow or draw too hard. And when I learned the 3rd position blues scale in the middle, these noises did not occur. Of course I wanted to play the upper register and that's where stuff got tricky. I could not draw the 11 nor 12 hole ( A & B) no matter how hard or soft I tried. The blows were easy but the draws were impossible. It was just a weird anomaly out of the box. This week, I sent my harp to Jeff Wilson, a Hohner tech in Canada, to have a look. I shall let you know what the outcome is when he returns it later this week. Any ideas from any of you with experience will be helpful and thankfully received. By the way, if you have a killer tab for Summertime, I also be grateful to hear from you. Thanks fellas.
The draw notes in the high register are very sensitive to sucking as opposed to inhaling. They will lock up or squeal if you have any suction in your oral cavity as you draw air into your mouth.
You can get those high draws to respond easily if you keep your throat open and inhale gently.
Try this: Play a draw note and then continue to inhale as you pull the harmonica away from your mouth.
Now listen to the sound of the air moving in your mouth. If you hear anything, you're creating suction. Work to eliminate any sound from your inhaled breathing by opening your throat and getting your tongue out of the way. Doing this will let you develop the ability to play the high notes without problems at any volume level. =========== Winslow
@GreyOwl - thanks and I'll let you know herein @ WinslowYerxa - Thankyou so very much for this explanation of the draws in the upper register Winslow. I had no idea it would be such a unique embouchure. I get the process but since I am a tongue blocker I am unsure as to how to completely get my tongue out of the way? I suppose it's a question of blocking the 10 hole from the side, lowering the tongue an opening the throat for as large a cavity as possible? Now I'm excited to get the chromatic back so I can try this. Thankyou for the tips and I look forward to meeting you at SPAH in August.
I regularly play chrom in our duo. Quite different than diatonic as mentioned. I am a very basic mostly 3rd position player and don't use the slide hardly ever. Yet I do make some good sounds on either the Hering 5148 or the SCX 48 I use mostly. The Hering is a bari C, the Suzuki is a G. I do hear some windsaver rattle but have never had anyone point out that extra sound from an audience or partner. To me it's kind of a non-issue. As long as the note sounds when I address it I don't worry. I admit I am not a typical player. I could do much more with a chrom if I wanted. But what I do seems to work well. I have also had several other makes and models. The most attractive one I have is a Hohner Chromonica II Deluxe, a retro beauty that does not play so well but looks fantastic. I scored a Bushman Free Jazz some years ago, which I suspect is a Suz or a Hering. It's an ok player but I really prefer the bari sound or the G register. The two I do use have provided some very good variety in my repertoire. If your valves don't stick and you get response from every reed, you're probably doing fine. The valve rattle is not so noticeable unless you're playing the harp!
Thanks for that observation Jbone. I am also an occasional Chrome player and I might well be overly sensitive to this low level clacking (my wife hasn't noticed this sound).
My new Chromonica 280C doesn't jam up on me after all. I did have a little problem with the slide jamming but I have resolved this hopefully.
The jam up I did get was on my old Chromonica 260. The valves are pretty old now and may need replacing.
Winslow. I appreciate your comment to Owen on playing the high end reeds. I don't venture up there often but I will make a mental note of that for the future. I'm pleased to have the lower octave notes available which is where the clacking sound is at its most noticeable and I will probably have to alter my approach on these holes.
Chromatics can be a thing of the Devil. My CX12 has the considerable advantage that even a retard like myself can open it up. (Of course I have to check the YT video of how to go about it every time, but still.) When I do that and try to find out why one hole still rattles (all of them rattled ´til I let the harmonica soak a good long while in warm water etc) I´m always pleasantly surprised that the A in octave 1 sounds just fine when I test blow it. It has fixed itself through some natural process! Then I re-assemble the thing and the A rattles like a M/F. This can be repeated endlessly. For some such a scenario might present itself as a "challenge". For me it means my CX 12 stays in its box.
@Martin that is the sad truth about Chroms! Many people go through the same thing you are! I work on Chromatics all the time and I've gotten really good at it which means I usually no what to look for and can fix it very quickly! I could fix your problem for $20 more than likely! Than explain what I did so that maybe you can do it yourself next time. Being a chrom player is an on going learning process. I've been learning for 25 years!!
@Grey Owl- I just spoke with the harp mechanic and he said there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Super 64. He checked it thoroughly and just to help me out a bit, embossed the 11 & 12 hole and set up all the reeds to work perfectly. Now it's on me to change my embouchure as Winslow suggested and not create a vacuum by sucking instead of inhaling. I'll keep the throat open like I do when bending on a diatonic. Good luck.
The chroms I have ruined have mostly been from forgetting what I'm playing and trying to draw bend or sucking way too hard to get more volume. One can definitely wreck a reed on a chrom without much misbehaving! Thankfully I am at a place where I address my instruments with more respect- and less wind! Guys like barbeque, and my own sometimes expensive adventures have made the right impression on me finally after many years.
I wish you success Grey Owl. Hopefully someone will appear who can do what you need done. ---------- Reverbnation
