The thunderbird is a very nice instrument, expensive though. Lately I have gotten a Seydel Session Steel Low F#, Eb and Db. They are all nice and cost half of what a thunderbird cost and quite a bit less than a Manji (In Sweden)
Edit: Oh, and they are way superior of my Lee Oskar Low F
I've played two low tuned Seydels and love them both. I have a Sp20 Low D that plays well. Seems to be a little louder than the Seydels. I like the feel of the Seydels better though and I would give them a slight edge on tone, although certainly within the range of personal preferences. I haven't tried a Thunderbird though.
I was in a similar situation to you Philosofy but didn't want to spend a lot of money on a harp I probably wouldn't use much so I bought a Hohner Big River in low D and was pretty pleased with it allowing for the fact that these lower harps take a bit more work to play.
I don't play below low F except for occasional experiments...and I have a LD big river. I played it, swapped out the comb for a bamboo hetrick, played it...changed the comb back and put it away. Recently repaired a LD crossover...erm...thunderbird. I can say it's definitely a much more easily played harp than my big river. At least for a guy who doesn't play low harps... I repaired a low C Seydel...Seydel approach low keys with heavily weighted reeds. The low c was very fat on the free end of the reed and was easily misaligned. Any twist in the reed will lead to it touching the slot. Obviously they work, but they need special consideration. In my low Fs, I'd say a thunderbird and 1847 are about equals. I just don't like that Seydel stuff much...just personal subjective stuff. Manji I don't know. reviews seem pretty good.
Philosophy. Couple of things. Prices on Thunderbirds have come way down so they are not as expensive as they used to be. That said, I recently set up a couple of low tuned Manjis for one of my customers who is a touring professional and I was very happy with how they came out. Of course I am biased on the subject of custom combs but the low tuned Manji has good bones. I have a one low tuned Seydel (Eb) in my personal kit. It is a good harp. When Hohner introduced the Thunderbird and simultaneously discontinued low keys in their other models I bought out all the low tuned Cross Harp reed plates Hohner had left in stock. I have one set of low D plates left. I can build you a harp or set the plates up for you if you want to build your own. And I also have one low D Big River which would not be as good as any of those mentioned above but it is a good harp for a lot less money. If there is anything I can do to be of service, let me know. You know where to find me. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
With Hetrick blond bamboo combs on both of them, a low tuned Manji and a Thunderbird are comparable. With the stock OOB combs on them, the Thunderbird is clearly superior. The only experience I've had with Seydel is a hybrid GM low F with Seydel brass reed plates that Hetrick used to sell, which I bought as a backup. But it's nowhere near as good as either the Thunderbird or Manji IMHO.
I only carry a low F and low F# in my performing set. I have some other low tuned harps in other keys I use for practice to develop breath technique. Don't gig with them or play them out, though. I generally prefer Suzuki over Hohner, but the TB is a really nice harp and I don't like the Manji combs.
Last Edited by hvyj on Oct 08, 2015 7:52 AM
I gotta agree with Florida Trader. Suzuki Manji reed plates on a flat custom comb and with some reed adjustments are terrific. I like the tone and timbre better than Hohner plates and the Suzuki plates are unqustionably more durable and last longer. That being said, I also think that the Thunderbirds are the best diatonic harp Hohner currently makes. However, the TB combs are not conistently flat, but but neither are the Manji combs,
Last Edited by hvyj on Oct 08, 2015 8:42 AM
I have a Big River low-D that has lasted for ages. It's a great harp. If you can still find one (there are still a few available) I don't use, nor do I recommend anyone use that stock comb, though.
Hohner discontinued the Marine Band and SP20 in low keys and I think that was the right thing to do - the cover plates cannot handle the low-end draw reeds and they buzz. Not without modification, anyway.
That problem was not such a big deal on the Big River. I reckon they discontinued those because they would have been a real competitor for the Thunderbirds.
"However, the TB combs are not conistently flat, but but neither are the Manji combs"
It is a little work. But at least the Manji composite and those Hohner laminated Bamboo combs don't need to be sealed afterwards.
If that work isn't your kind of thing, third-party combs are available. It's an extra cost but you can get a bump up in response and tone. Sometimes a little extra response is a good thing on those low-end harps.
About 3 years ago, I picked up some Big Rivers in Low D, Low E, and Low F - my first low harps. They were very inexpensive (under 30 USD). They are pretty good harps and a nice introduction to low keys. Fun to play and pretty good sound, like Grey Owl says.
Since then I have acquired Session Steels in LD, LEb, LF, LF#. They play better and sound better than the Big Rivers. I think their big, full length covers resonate nicely in the low keys. They are airtight, bend easily (for low harps) and have a rich, deep tone quality. And they stay in tune. I have experienced no reed rattle against the covers. Highly recommended.
You should also check out the Seydel Solist Pro-12, which is a 12-holer available in LD and LC, the first nine reeds are steel. The solist comb is very nice on the 10-holers, so I'm looking to buying one of the 12-holers. They are the same price as the Thunderbird.
The Low Manjis look nice too. I have never tried one, but will likely pick one up on my next trip to Japan.
I have never tried a Thunderbird.
Last Edited by A440 on Oct 08, 2015 2:43 PM
Ok....I own the T-bird that Sbee referred to and its a nice tone machine, but I blew out the one blow reed as it gets a workout on gigs when I chug those nice rich low chords! ( rarely blow out reeds) Whilst in the repair shop..I had Dane at MandoHarp send me a Blues Session which will be my backup as I use/like the Lo harps more these days yum! So I'm just vamping with the Seydel now and do notice the reed rattle a bit....how's the Manji with this guys? Seydels tone (& price) is nice but I think the t- bird wins.....for me as a superior gig worthy instrument.... ---------- Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Last Edited by Rubes on Oct 10, 2015 6:05 AM
The Manjis have an exaggerated bottom cover to prevent reed rattle. The Thunderbird does too.
On a side note, I just learned that soon Suzuki will be offering replacement reed plates and covers for the low tuned Manjis meaning I can buy the components and assemble harps using my combs. That's good news. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
The Seydel 1847's won't rattle against the covers because their cover plates were set up to avoid this. When they came out originally in 2007, everything below a G had a little "indentation" at the 1 draw to prevent this from happening, but now they've converted to a bottom cover plate design similar to the T-Bird and the Manji. The Blues Sessions does not have this and that's why you hear that rattle, especially if you play it the slightest bit too hard. The T-Bird, Manji, and 1847's are the best OOTB for low pitched harps around, tho a top of the line customizer can clearly make them play even better than they already are. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I have worked on and played both harps in question. Both are good harps. The Manji Low D is like sucking air through a toilet paper tube. Pretty sluggish as would be expected for a low key. The T-Bird is more responsive and a little more bendable, especially if you do a little work on it but you dont have too. Either way be prepared to get out your big lungs. T-Bird.
Slimharp. I tend to agree with your assessment - to a point. Out of the box, the low Manjis are very airy because the gaps are set way too wide. Close the gaps and the harp comes to life. Do some reed work and the harp becomes quite responsive. I had my doubts when I got my first low Manji but I now very high on them.
Regarding the Thunderbird, I wonder, since this harp is Joe Filisko's baby, if Hohner just does a better job setting them up at the factory. Gapping I mean - which is the simplist adjustment to make and one of the most beneficial. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Tom, the Manji I had was pretty doggish after I worked on it. It improved but was not as responsive as a T-Bird. I would say the Manji is VERY well made and maybe after tweaking it and letting it rest and repeat it would be better. I am really not a fan of Stainless Steel.
I've also wondered if the high price of the thunderbird is due to factory set up cost. I know the 'artist setup' service costs about $20...which seems to fit since the Tbird seems like a crossover with a special cover plate and it's hard to see a material input cost which would set the price so far above the crossover. I've played 3 Thunderbirds and they have been consistently good.
