My greatest hope, besides Jason becoming a national star, is that there is a ripple effect through the music world.
I'm hoping that arrangers, composers, producers, bands will start to think about using harmonica more. That harmonica will not be the instrument somebody doubles on and plays badly. This also means Jason has raised the bar and people now have an idea what great harmonica playing is. ----------
Diggs, I hear harmonica all over the TV these days. :)
Every instrument is going to have great players and lousy players out there. There are guitar players who play a few chords and get by just fine (and guitar virtuosos). I think sometimes we are our own worst enemy. I heard a guy on a FB saying he loved harmonica. He wanted to be able to play just like Tom Petty. Everyone immediately jumped on him! Thing is, Tom Petty is popular. If we could get 50 guys on the radio who played harmonica like Tom Petty it would do a lot for harmonica, even if us blues harp guys might lift our nose at Petty's playing.
The thing is, in addition to being amazing you have to be playing 'what the kids are listening to' (and probably either be young and attractive or have really catchy tunes). Jason is amazing, and may become a superstar, but even if he does, I don't know as that's going to shake the harmonica world. People know John Popper and you'll hear him on radio stations aimed at a younger (or at least not older) audiences. Jason probably can hit the right demographic with his music, but that rip off of the Lee Oskar riff for that Kei$ha song is probably aimed at a wider audience.
We'll always have guys doubling on harmonica as a second instrument though, just like good singers often double on guitar. It's a good instrument to double on- it's a pain to carry a guitar and drum kit. My feeling though isn't that lousy harp players hurt the harmonica. Lousy harp players can get better. Most people can't tell the difference between great harp playing and lousy harp playing. If everyone felt they had to play like Jason the first time they picked up the harp no one would get passed the first lesson without quitting. We need the whole range- the Tom Pettys, the Bob Dylans, the Jason Riccis and John Poppers, and maybe even the Alanis Morissettes.
(Interesting thing about Kei$ha's timber, musically, even although they turn it down at certain points it's playing under the vocals pretty much the whole time. It's playing the counter melody part. My favorite tune to play in my band I play the entire time. It's just 2 holes, 5 notes, stupid simple to play, but how often do you see the bands only guitar player stopping? It won't work on everything, but as an instrument that sounds a lot like a human voice I think there are a lot of opportunities to play more, as long as we adjust the mix right, maybe not for blues, but for all sorts of other music.)
Nate hit it right on the head about playing harp to what the kids are listening to now. I think a hand full of advanced intermediate level harpists being mixed in right with the band and getting tons of air time would be a huge bonus. But let's face it. The harmonica has a lot of prejudice to overcome. ----------
I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
Last Edited by 2chops on Apr 21, 2015 3:24 PM
For an instrument that's been around since ~1854 I think it's doing pretty good considering the current competition for people's time and energy.
It's also been "popular" already a few times, for different reasons I suspect.
It also needs to be more than "star" or gimmick driven to sustain a period of popularity.
To be part of the contemporary music landscape it needs to fit tonally and musically with the sounds being produced on a regular basis, and there's a lot of competition in this area.
I'm more curious as to how you could get it back in schools as a program instrument. How did recorders replace the harp? Recorders replaced the harp in schools in Japan years ago, much to Mr Tombo's disgust & lower profit margin.
Easier to learn? Cheaper? How do you overcome that?
How do you compete against new interfaces and new forms of musical expression?
@Komuso It's easier to see what you are doing and more logical for major scale theory to use recorder. How is melodion doing as an educational instrument in Japan?
Speaking with young adults from China I find most of them were introduced to music in school using a tremolo harmonica rather than a recorder. I don't know if this is still the case.
I've always felt that the best musicians in the world are usually only appreciated by other musicians who understand what they're doing more than the average listener. And being a technically great musician is only half the battle. The real struggle is being able to write and arrange good songs. I've seen self professed internet critics rip on guys like Neil Young, Dylan and Petty for their harp playing. It's not the harmonica expertise, it's the songs they write. It takes some kind of talent to consistently produce good music over the course of many years. Unfortunately, songwriting seems to be one of those things that you either have or you don't. Jeff Beck is a technical marvel with a guitar. But he had to rely on others to write songs for his albums. OTOH it was once said that Otis Redding could write a hit song while taking a piss. Unless you are a pop star, with a team of songwriters and a massive production budget, it seems to be difficult to reach the masses with just technical music ability. But I give props to anyone who can make a living doing what they love, even if they don't get rich doing it.
@Gnarly yes, recorder is easier to see Melodian don't know, but I bought a seydel Triola for my kid and he likes to toot on that now and again
@STME58 Tremolo are big in Asia in general for a long time, diatonic not so much. Tony Eyers would be the man to ask.
@TheBlackPit Good points. General public generally couldn't give 2 hoots about technical ability over a good song - especially with a killer vocal. I can't say I blame them really. Most of the gold standard songs that have survived as classics survived for a reason - they are very well written and performed. Not necessarily complex or technically perfect either. Just great harmonic and melodic compositions, with great arranging.
Jon Gindicks focus on songwriting as part of his jam camps is right on the money I think.
@Gnarly The shawn reference is what you're up against though. Just because you (and me as well) are committed to energetic analog interfaces doesn't mean that's what others are. I do both but still prefer the feedback loop of energetic analog interfaces.
Every new instrument, every new way of playing or making sound, is a competitor for someone who might have picked up another "traditional" instrument (not just harmonica)
But sometimes the old is made new again too, with new technology for energetic interfaces merged with digital. I'm filming a gig this sat for an ex-big name band keyboardist using his new Roli Seaboard Grand
Very interested to hear/see it!
I have some ideas for harmonica in this area which I continue to work on, as technology improves.
I think songwriting, including lyrics writing, is a skill just like anything else. What I write these days is way catchier, more developed and just all around better than what I was writing even 5 years ago. That doesn't mean it will make me a superstar, but I'm better than I was, and at least locally, I'll stack my lyrics up against any takers- but then again, I majored in English with a minor in creative writing. Even when I get distracted from it my brain is trying new ideas out in my head. I'm always working on it, and not just working on blues songs, working on writing whatever I can.
If this is some sort of spin-off from Jason Ricci´s apperance in the Hall of fame context where a harmonica was a front instrument, don´t get your hopes up too high, I´d say. I haven´t read a single word about it here in Sweden, nor will I; nor have I detected any interest whatsover for harmonica among "the kids" -- they most decidedly have other things on their musical menus.
The Hall of fame is an American affair, and I can´t really say if it´s of any greater consequence even there?
As for the general state of the harmonica here, it seems to me be pretty glum -- and with these new exorbitant prices for the instruments it´s becoming less and less something people are trying out just for fun. The upside of the whole thing is of course that there are fewer bad harmonica players.
I think what will keep any instrument "popular" is if it adds to the music. I find that while very accomplished players can do amazing calithentics (sp) on an instrument it may not often add to the song. It may wow other instrument players but the song suffers. It must enhance and add to the emotion of the song. I am not saying Jason does this - if anyone can bring the harp front and centre to the masses - he and Mike Smith are probably two of the best guys to do it. ----------
My gripe on the issue is that too many MUSICIANS, PRODUCERS and RADIO DJ'S don't understand/respect the harmonica. There are some great harp players out there, but I hear harp in tunes where harp is not a "main instrument" component of the band, mostly rock, pop and country tunes - and although in some cases it is very professionally played, sometimes it is just downright AWFUL/AMATEUR.
No band with any self respect, performing at a level that is getting them radio airplay, would ever publish music with guitar work that sucked so badly. Why is crappy harp playing so tolerated?
The best thing we can do is to promote great harp playing like Jason's so more and more people hear what CAN be done with the instrument. ---------- *************************************************** /Greg
Right on man, this attitude is prevalent in singer/songwriters/guitarists who get a neck rack on and try to sound like Neil Young
I don't know what the answer is but I would say that the 20 yr old generation have no idea 'how' to listen and appreciate live bands (not DJs and crap modern music)
I think live music in general, is going down the tubes. I don't see young people playing live. Especially electrified. It's us old guys out there rockin. Playin an instrument well is not an easy task. It takes time, practice and dedication. As stated above, there is a lot of distractions. Just trying to make ends meet is a full time job for young people. When I was young, a fellow could get a good paying job in the mill and have some cash for life's pleasures. Pretty tough now. Collage puts you 60 grand in the hole! No time for music, gota make money for the monkey..............................
Electronic music is fun! And free, if you own a computer, at least with some limitations. I came late to the harmonica, I'm 62 and only played it professionally since the mid 90's (I am weighing whether I truly am currently a pro harp player, since I don't just show up with harmonicas now), so I didn't really get bitten like many of you here. Even now, it's mainly music that interests me, so I care less if others take up the harmonica. OTOH, I am also a tech now (hurray), so I DO have a vested interest in increased sales. Go Suzuki kids! And Jason plays our harps (hallelujah, it's the topic again). Although I think listmember harpwrench customizes his horns, hey Joe, are you tweaking Manjis for him these days? Edit: Earlier tonight I had some fun with antique looping hardware, a Digitech PMC10 controlling an Echoplex Digital Pro, plugged in my FireBall and played that 14 hole chromatic-chord duct taped thingie--great fun!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 22, 2015 7:25 PM
BN, You should come to Nashville if you think there aren't young people playing live music-good music. Dozens of young bands any night of the week, and its true in many cities.
I feel that the future of harmonica is in good hands with Joe keeping Jason in miracle harps--kinda like Joe Filisko and Howard. Good music helps make life worth living--I am grateful to all concerned.
Joe is retro sounding, Howard is out of this universe alien sounding and Jason is blues/rock shred sounding.
I think that someone will have to appear with an original fresh and new sound on the harmonica if it is to once again spark major interest amongst the general public.
Still fail to see in what "Jason´s international exposure" consists. Since I joined the fledgling Harp-l, some 20 yrs ago, an enthusiastic shout can be heard every now and then when somebody has been seen on (American) national television with a harmonica in hand: "Horay, here comes the big breakthrough for harmonica!"
But I doubt that even if Jason´s performance on that Hall o Fame event had been seen around the world (which it isn´t) it would mean a whole lot. Of course I´m happy for Jason Ricci´s sake, but I think it´s safest the accept that the harp is an instrument in the margin and it will remain there.
Well, the word is exposure, and Jason in back out on the road (and again, praise be to the powers that put him back together again), and that means lots of folks who don't know about what the harmonica can do will get exposed to a little kryptonite, know what I'm sayin' . . . Never say never, and don't stop believin' LOL
Edit: And my feeling is that Jason is a musician, who happens to play the harmonica, and that will shine thru.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 23, 2015 6:50 AM
Seemed obvious that the guys he was playing with sincerely admired his musicianship. Jason's making connections with bigger fish, and could end up on mainstream radio before you know it. Who knows? Most of the general public doesn't care about a new sound, they like whatever the music executives tell the radio stations to play. But besides that, amped harmonica in country music sounds like a progressive idea to me. When they're finished bastardizing country music with the 80's-90's pop rock sound, maybe it'll happen.
The public has little sustained interest in any instrumental virtuosity.
Most music now only lets the players put a few hooks in there and focuses on vocals.
What was the last instrumental hit you heard? The 50's and 60's were full of Happy Organs, Raunchys and Wipe Outs
John Popper's aura didnt last long
And obviously " attractiveness " plays a large part in making something mesh with the public.
Get a Taylor Swift type to blow some harp and that might get people interested.
I live in a latin American dominated community and my friends are often quick to point out that before she became a big star Shakira played harp
I am not saying it is right--it is just the way of the business.
Personally I dont care if other people like the music, books , movies etc that I like- that kind of validation of your tastes should play out by High School
Unless of course you have something to sell
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Apr 23, 2015 7:23 AM
Larry, even although it's got some copyright issues, Kei$ha/Pitbull's 'Timber' probably is perking up some ears. I'm into Scarecrow, with his mix of traditional blues and harp with rap on top (in French, but can't have everything!) Bad News Brown had some youth crossover potential, but he's dead.
I read an article that a lot more pop songs are in minor keys that there used to be. Bad News was using LO minor tunings I think. I know the argument goes that you can play it on a major tuned harp, but to my ear it just doesn't sound the same.
This issue about popularity of the instrument, or people thinking its a toy and not taking it seriously comes up frequently. I wonder if people have a chip on their shoulder... Personally I don't give a damn what the majority of people think about harp. I love it, and am actually glad that its a 'novelty'. In fact, I think its an advantage. If people have only heard crap harp before, then all the better for me. The response that I get from audience and band members is way out of proportion with my limited abilities. ---------- Lucky Lester
Well Butter, Wonder and Magic Dick were known internationally at a time when it would have and should have been easier for the harp to breakthrough and if those cat's could not do it...well!
Sadly, these days, and I hate to say it will take a kid from a One Direction or something similar type ''band'' to play pro-level harmonica to get it noticed but truth is the harmonica is an acquired taste and still not taken seriously by the larger public and until such times as a gifted young whomever comes through... it's always going to an instrument associated with old bluesmen, prisoners, camp fires and granddads!!!
But, one other point... the days of musician worship in the mainstream are pretty much gone and dead, it's more about their hairstyle's, how pretty they are, what their latest scandal is and oh yeah, he or she has a good voice....in that order!
The poker machines killed live music in a lot of pubs here in Sydney. The State governments are addicted to gambling revenue. What we are seeing is live music in little cafes, restaurants and bars most nights. I've been doing a few gigs here and there. The pay is crap, but a lot of young people do come and actually listen, and sometimes practice what they learned in their swing dancing classes.
+1 to what Lucky Lester said. People do sometimes come up and say they haven't heard the harp played properly before.
I do not expect widespread appreciation of the harp anytime soon. Meanwhile, I plug away at playing small gigs and busking because it is a hell of a lot of fun.
Komuso, that is an incredible video. Shawn Wasabi whaaaaaaa? I'm just a country boy. Jeez. Feeling that right now.
But here's the thing: blues has always had the ability to out-dance, out-funk, and out-down (yes: figure it out) the New Stuff. I personally want blues to be modern. But I'm aware that for many people, blues is where you go when you've got future shock--too much Shawn Wasabi--and want to get back down into the dirt.
Which is why, one fine spring morning about a week before a North Mississippi harmonica-based event, I got in my truck, drove out to a favorite crossroads, and made this video:
I've never really understood why this video has done so well, hit-wise. The singing isn't very good. But there's the old shiny truck. There's decent harp. And there's the sound of foot on dirt. I'm convinced that that is part of why folks like it. I tried to channel the spirit of old deep blues. But of course I was using an SRV song--and remaking it as a country blues.
In other words, Shawn Wasabi and I are both doing the same thing: mashups. But he's trying to lean forward, and I'm trying to work the tailwind.
That Shawn Wasabi song reminded me of a Japanese band I sometimes listen to called Plus-Tech Squeeze Box. I heard them on John Peel's BBC radio show many years ago when I was half asleep one night and it jolted me awake. But when I want soul-deep satisfaction, give me some blues. I think that might be why things like kudzu's Pride & Joy get so many hits. It's keeping the instincts primal. BronzeWailer's YouTube
To put things into perspective from here, (and this is DEFINITELY not personal) NO-ONE here has ever heard of Jason Ricci, Joe Filisko, Adam Gussow .... the list continues. I could ask 1000 people here and there is no chance that they have ever heard of the above, little chance they have ever heard a harmonica played well and even less of a chance that they have ever heard a decent blues band.
We live in a niche, a bubble surrounded by like-minded.
I'm very happy for Jason and it MIGHT help him somewhat, although my experience says that that too is not a given.
Re the comparison of hits on YouTube. We see variations of it even here on the forum. When Richard Innes died, the posting received only a handful of comments. Every time someone posts almost anything else (even the downright ridiculous) we see dozens of posts. Most here don't know Richard Innes, have no interest in drummers and their impact on blues and the way the harmonica sounds. Sad but that's how it is. People are interested in what's clearly out there not what they have to look for and understand.
R
Last Edited by Little roger on Apr 23, 2015 10:32 PM
Same for over here (NZ); not even my muso friends know who Jason, Adam or a bunch of contemporary guys I kinda idolize are. And even the old masters. My country was always a little isolated and backward (LOL) and it's no different with stuff like Blues harmonica.
I don't think it's being negative to realize we are in a niche and be ok with that.
---------- My YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ2_8CnjaiNLcPke4gWQ65A
"To put things into perspective from here, (and this is DEFINITELY not personal) NO-ONE here has ever heard of Jason Ricci, Joe Filisko, Adam Gussow ...."
Interestingly enough, when you put Shawn Wasabi, Jason Ricci, and Adam Gussow into Google search, we each have roughly the same number of hits: about 115,000 each for Jason and me, 123,000 for Shawn Wasabi. Filisko has about 1/3 as many as we do. We're all subcultural tastes, in other words.
For comparison purposes: Danny Gokey, who was a top 3 finalist on American Idol about 5-7 years ago, has 513,000 hits. Kelly Clarkson has 40 million. Tab Benoit has 354,000. Rick Estrin has 99,000. Paul Butterfield has 488,000. Kanye West has 149 million.
Make of it what you will. A rough guide to public visibility.
okay couldn't resist I typed in my favorite harmonica player, but might be discounted cuz can't really say he's a blues player, though he has played some blues tunes...
Charlie Mc Coy...
I would say he has done his fair share of proving the harmonica is a musical instrument, not just a toy. Though I doubt he loses any sleep over it either way...
...oops I learned I did the google search wrong...nevermind
Last Edited by Spderyak on Apr 24, 2015 11:56 AM
If you type in charlie mccoy without quotes, you do indeed get that many hits. If you drill down past the first 10 pages of results, 95% of them are for other people named Charlie or McCoy.
If you do what I did and put quotes around his name (and that's what I did with all the others in my list above), you get 190,000.
That's about right. He's twice as famous as Rick Estrin and half as famous as Paul Butterfield.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Apr 24, 2015 10:11 AM
You could say the same for Brendan Power and the whole Riverdance connection that was a worldwide phenomenon and Brendan Power/harmonica was associated strongly with that and we are still here at this point discussing it!
Harmonica like Blues will always be a subculture, niche or whatever you want to call it. We all know and understand the great technical playing ability that some people achieve on this instrument and the majority don't, mainly because they ain't interested unless they happen to be in a bar, pissed and hear someone do a Sonny Terry number and everyone goes apeshit dancin' and jumpin' around...seen it a ton o' times!
Last Edited by marine1896 on Apr 24, 2015 10:19 AM
I asked myself that a lot over the years ;-) but... luck, festival appearances and some TV exposure. I did see him years back at some really small venues in the UK but was not that keen on him, but I can see why people might like him, his modern day hobo story and stuff.
I play saxophone as well as harmonica. I live in Nashville, TN ("Music City" USA) and I would bet that 90% of the people here could not name 3 saxophone players, let alone 3 blues / rock sax players. For that matter, I doubt most people could name three bass players, keyboardists, or any other instrument other than guitar and voice.
Most people I talk to get excited when I tell them I play harmonica. YMMV, but I don't see that people disrespect the instrument as much as they simply don't pay attention to it, though they like it when they hear it.
To quote a famous song, I think the real issue is that "video killed the radio star". The majority of people in my experience just don't pay much attention to music anymore.
"No band with any self respect, performing at a level that is getting them radio airplay, would ever publish music with guitar work that sucked so badly. Why is crappy harp playing so tolerated?"
I don't agree, Greg. I hear some pretty poor musicianship, auto-tuned vocals and generally bad stuff getting air play but, that's not really new.
One thing I think has happened since MTV, YouTube and digital downloads is that band members are receiving far less credit these day than in the past. Part of this is due to increased publicity given to the lead vocalist but, I think another part is due to the fact that so few people sit down and read liner notes while listening to an album. That used to be a big part of the new album experience.
Following on what MichaelMC said, I doubt 1% of the folks that buy Taylor Swift's albums could name any of the band members (including the guitar player).
But getting back to the OP he expressed HOPE for JR and I wish that for anyone and for JR I'm not really a fan of his but his great technical playing ability and harp talent is something to be in awe of especially if you have taken the time to learn harmonica and all that entails! More power to him!
"I'm more curious as to how you could get it back in schools as a program instrument. How did recorders replace the harp? Recorders replaced the harp in schools in Japan years ago, much to Mr Tombo's disgust & lower profit margin.
Easier to learn? Cheaper? How do you overcome that?" ------------------------------------------------------ Komuso: Back in the mid 80's when I was endorsing hohner harps I pioneered the rainbow harmonica program in the Austin public schools. It was a 4 hole harp the size of a marine band and came with color coded song books. Hohner was hoping to have it replace the recorder and breed a hole new generation of harmonica players. They sent me hundreds of harps, posters, patches, hats, and hohner harp info. The thing never really took off due to no real support for me other than the box they sent and the school music programs weren't really interested. I ended up giving them to my special needs students and handed them out at old age homes I would play at. I see they still make it but the ones they sent me had metal covers and wood combs. Walter http://www.harmonyonline.com/hohner-rainbow-harmonica-p-6024.html
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
