|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
blues
blues
Page:
1
2
kudzurunner
4576 posts
Mar 05, 2014
6:55 PM
|
Hard to imagine a white guy, even Johnny Sansone, getting down like this on vocals and frontmanship.
Also hard to imagine a bunch of white guys getting down like this Chicago band.
Wait a minute. Hmmm. Weird. Well, maybe the white boys are getting a feel for this stuff.
The drunking camerawork is f-ing great!
Sorry, I meant to write drunken.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 05, 2014 7:02 PM
|
Jehosaphat
701 posts
Mar 05, 2014
7:15 PM
|
Oh yes! Just played it three times in a row.
I don't come from the States so i carry no 'race' issue baggage(also i don't want to offend anyone) but having the black guy fronting it just made it seem more 'real'
A white guy grinning away would of ,to me,made it into a parody.
Don't get me wrong those guys were laying down a solid groove,but he made it something else,the real blues,juke joint,payday blues.
Anymore mre Kudzu?
|
kudzurunner
4577 posts
Mar 05, 2014
7:37 PM
|
I agree. It would take a very special white guy to front a band this way. Johnny Sansone comes close. I crossed paths with him in the trailer where the bands got paid at the blues festival in Ft. Lauderdale a couple of weeks ago. He was in a great mood. I love Johnny. His chromatic work that night was spectacularly good. He understood the ritual moment. He's gotten to the point where he knows what makes him feel good and he can just go out there and do it and BE it. Like Taildragger.
But not quite like Taildragger.
Close, though.
My point in posting this video is a) Taildragger, although he's just working off a memory of having seen and sat at the feet of Howlin' Wolf--i.e, he's just faking it too, and amazed that the white folks are buying it--has something that I hope most of us here would recognize as "soul of the blues" force; and b) the white boys are doing an amazingly good job of supporting what he's doing. They're bluesmen, not rockers. They're throwing down some blues.
A community of contemporary blues players.
Thus the bare-bones thread title.
Anybody who tries to simplify the contemporary blues scene, finding "authenticity" in one [black) place and minstrelsy in another [white] place is indeed missing most of what makes this stuff so interesting.
EVERYBODY is faking it these days. And everybody is playing Real Blues. I heard Rick Derringer on Bluesville this morning, throwing down some loud-as-hell electric blues. It was authentic blues, 2014 model. We're all postmodern now.
Those who aren't postmodern are, in fact, faking it. They're just playing something that used to be alive and pretending that it's the Real Blues.
There is no objective standpoint. B. B. King sings--or did sing, for the first half of his career--like a girl; Albert King sings like a man. B. B. King sings/sang like a girl because he wanted to get, in his voice and on his guitar, the sound of the church women that he knew. He calls his guitar Lucille. What is more girlish than that? His guitar isn't a symbolic phallus, it's a woman. Weird.
Sometimes, at certain moments in his show, B. B. puts on a woman's voice and sways his hips as he tugs his waistline. He pretends to be a woman. Albert King wouldn't think of doing that.
Albert King projects an entirely different sexual persona. He smokes a pipe and has a deep, rough laugh. He harrangues his band like big daddy. Muddy was the same way. Wolf was the same way.
But B. B. sings like a girl, with a high churchy tenor. He talks like a girl when he does Louis Jordan's "Caldonia."
I'm not suggesting that B. B. King is gay. Not at all. He just has a sexual persona that is diametrically opposed to Albert King's--and that fact has never been noted. Usually people clump those two Kings together.
Albert Collins is a trickster.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 05, 2014 7:53 PM
|
tmf714
2456 posts
Mar 05, 2014
7:47 PM
|
|
jnorem
83 posts
Mar 05, 2014
7:55 PM
|
I don't know. I'm sorry, but I fail to see what's good about this. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that this is any kind of accurate representation of what blues music is about.
----------
Call me J
|
Rick Davis
3029 posts
Mar 05, 2014
7:58 PM
|
In Adam's video they were groovin' pretty strong. I like it.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 05, 2014 7:59 PM
|
jbone
1522 posts
Mar 05, 2014
8:00 PM
|
If those white guys had not laid it on the line, do you think the front guy would have responded so well? I have seen and sometimes been p;art of a thing similar to this phenom. It can be so amazing.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
DukeBerryman
203 posts
Mar 05, 2014
8:05 PM
|
Blues music is cultural music, and that culture is now postmodern. It was 20th century American music, and now we gotta keep it going somehow, it has to evolve, so we might as well take it to the next level - whatever that is. Don't forget the cultural baggage, though. It has to come with us.
|
Jehosaphat
702 posts
Mar 05, 2014
8:18 PM
|
@tmf714 Close but no cigar..but then i have a feeling that that is your point in an esoteric way? :
Man i love this song..
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Mar 05, 2014 8:19 PM
|
tmf714
2457 posts
Mar 05, 2014
8:21 PM
|
@Jehosaphat-nope.
Just showing how some good ol white boys can lay it down-no faking it there-just pure emotion and soul.
Listen to what ST Paul says at the start-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Mar 05, 2014 8:23 PM
|
Joe_L
2435 posts
Mar 05, 2014
9:05 PM
|
Taildragger is a bad motherf*cker. He wires some great songs. He's a good singer. He is has few peers as an entertainer. He has several CD's out. He is no pretender.
If you think it's hard to imagine white guys playing like this, you need to get out more. Taildragger always fronts a solid band. The color of the players skin is immaterial.
----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by Joe_L on Mar 05, 2014 9:06 PM
|
davew
11 posts
Mar 05, 2014
9:08 PM
|
The "blues " vid was great! This is what it's all about.
People partying, drinking, hanging off their back stoop digging it. I think you had it right the first time, it's f-en drunking!
|
DukeBerryman
205 posts
Mar 05, 2014
9:12 PM
|
@davew I agree - at the end of the day, blues music is party music, for drinking, dancing, and f**king
|
Goldbrick
325 posts
Mar 05, 2014
10:23 PM
|
Albert Kings Flying Vee guitar was named "Lucy"-
|
Stevelegh
942 posts
Mar 05, 2014
11:45 PM
|
I've said it before, but this is clear evidence. A Hi Z mic slightly overdriven makes vocals sound so much better.
|
nacoran
7571 posts
Mar 06, 2014
12:02 AM
|
jnorem, what don't you like about it? The vocals are kind of distorted, but as a grunge fan, that's old hat to me. The groove is solid blues.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
kudzurunner
4578 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:29 AM
|
Goldbrick: Dang it, you're right. I thought I had something there, but you've shaken my confidence. Obviously Lucy is a play on "Lucille," but I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm quite sure, though, that Albert King put forward a somewhat different sexual persona than King.
@Joe L: I was being facetious. My whole point is that this particular white band is kick-ass. And they're not the only ones. I was implicitly mocking folks who somehow decide/pronounce, a priori, that "white blues" is inferior to "black blues." It's not. And much of the time, these days, blues culture is a dance of black and white intertwined. The color and culture thing is complicate. But it's also, as davew suggests, very simple at certain moments--as in the video I posted, where some serious get-down party music is being cooked up.
|
NiteCrawler .
275 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:55 AM
|
Thanks for that Adam,I enjoyed it,what a groove."Holy Chit" though I was worried about that Kalamazoo hangin on the edge of the porch,that little bugger carried some weight in that tune for 5 watts ,eh.Speaking of J.Sansone,I have an electrician friend here in S.Jersey who went to high school with him in West Orange.He has,nt seen him since and I told him how bad ass he is and to check him out.Well that was 8 months ago and he has,nt done so yet although but he did say that he had a hot sister back in the day.I always try to spread the word for the blues folks,unfortunaley alot of people just aren,t interested.
|
The Iceman
1507 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:32 AM
|
If you're white and gonna play a house party like this, you better know that simple groove...especially if you are gonna stay on the 1 chord.
All white blues bands should cut their teeth like this.
----------
The Iceman
|
isaacullah
2663 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:59 AM
|
I've seen St. Paul and the Broken Bones a couple of time. IMO, if "everybody's faking it", St. Paul is faking it a little bit more. What I mean is that he manages to get the sound pretty well, but I personally just don't feel the actual emotion come through.
The band in Adam's first video was really laying it down... Didn't care too much for Taildragger's vocals (even taking the distorted sound into account). It may be "authentic", but that doesn't always mean it's good. Though I DID feel the emotion, I preferred St. Pauls vocal performance to Taildragger's.
Ain't the world a beautiful set of ironies?
----------
YouTube! Soundcloud!
|
thorvaldsen76
173 posts
Mar 06, 2014
11:38 AM
|
"Those who aren't postmodern are, in fact, faking it. They're just playing something that used to be alive and pretending that it's the Real Blues."
To me, the old stuff is the real blues. That's what really talks to me, and makes sense to me. For me it's the other way around. All the wanna-be-rockers-who-didn't-make-it-guys. The guys that wanna develop the blues, but never took the time to learn about the blues. Those are the fake guys in my book. To me, the old blues is like classical music. If I change it to much, I ruin it. You never hear classical musicians play for example a Mozart-play, and make up their own lines and notes completely unrecognizable to the listener. I would never dream of doing that to a Little Walter song.. I think it is lazy, actually. And to me it tells me that this player is not putting down enough effort. Yeah, I know! I'm a fundamentalist and I have been brain-damaged from listening to old blues ;)
|
jnorem
85 posts
Mar 06, 2014
11:58 AM
|
"jnorem, what don't you like about it? The vocals are kind of distorted, but as a grunge fan, that's old hat to me. The groove is solid blues."
I just really don't like this Taildragger character, that's pretty much it.
I very much part ways with the idea that if you're not postmodern (whatever that's supposed to mean, being able to do overblows, perhaps) you're faking it. Speak for yourself, but I can assure you that I am in no way shape or form faking it. I don't know how to fake it, if I did it probably would have helped my career enormously. Old-school I may be, and I can't pull off an overblow to save my life, but I am not faking it.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 06, 2014 12:02 PM
|
kudzurunner
4579 posts
Mar 06, 2014
12:20 PM
|
"To me, the old blues is like classical music. If I change it to much, I ruin it. You never hear classical musicians play for example a Mozart-play, and make up their own lines and notes completely unrecognizable to the listener. I would never dream of doing that to a Little Walter song.. I think it is lazy, actually."
This is an extremely interesting claim, and I thank you for framing the issue so pointedly. Little Walter is exactly the right subject for this debate, since, when he was alive, both his attitude towards music-making and the music he actually made were diametrically opposed to the "classical approach" that you lay out.
LW wanted to create something new. He wanted to create a sound that nobody had ever made before on the harmonica. He was a genius, a source. He didn't invent blues, as blues, but he revolutionized and updated the way that it was played on the harmonica. That's precisely why we celebrate him, and why people still play, and copy, his recorded performances--performances that were themselves improvised, not composed.
There's a huge disconnect between Little Walter's attitude and your own. And you're not alone in this: many harmonica players suffer from the same disconnect.
The moment you transform Little Walter's recorded production into classical repertoire, you make clear that you're uninterested in making music from the same place, aesthetically speaking, out of which he actually created those recordings. You're simply keeping alive a ghost.
Now, sometimes it's a good thing to keep ghosts alive. And it's certainly a great thing to keep alive the musical compositions of Mozart. But Little Walter's compositions were IMPROVISED, not composed, and that makes a difference.
And of course the distinctly modern sound that LW came up with in the early and mid-1950s is now, sixty years down the line, somewhat dated. That doesn't make a difference if you're treating it like classical repertoire--but I've already explained to you why that is a terribly problematic idea, at least if you admire Little Walter's genius. But the dated-ness of LW's sound DOES make a difference if you are interested, as I am, in relating to your own musical horizons from the forward-looking, make-it-new perspective that Walter himself embraced. In that case, what would make sense would be to forget about Walter's past recordings and ask yourself a simple question: If he were alive today, what sorts of blues harmonica sounds would be be making? If he were suddenly brought back from the dead, which contemporary players would grab his attention?
He would, I submit, be unimpressed and somewhat unnerved by those who have transformed his improvised compositions into classical repertoire. It would provide a brief thrill, followed by a yawn and a big fat skeptical "And............?" He'd start looking around for whatever the cutting edge thing of today was.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 06, 2014 12:23 PM
|
Pistolcat
603 posts
Mar 06, 2014
12:45 PM
|
Isn't that Frank on harp in the first vid? Looks like his wife beater and hip-swagger dance moves.
----------
Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
|
barbequebob
2488 posts
Mar 06, 2014
1:18 PM
|
What I see in the video Adam posted is nothing but straight up down home blues, definitely played behind the beat and everything just flat out grooves and it's the kind of thing I used to see Howlin' Wolf do. Having played with both black and white blues musicians, the groove is real black as they come from personal experience playing with those old masters.
Tail Dragger is obviously paying big time hommage to his main influence, Howlin' Wolf, and in Wolf's final years, he was forced to perform seated because he had several heart attacks and then finally got into a bad auto accident that left him with 1/2 of a kidney that eventually failed and he had to perform near a VA hospital so he could get kidney dialysis, which I myself was on for just over 3 years before my kidney transplant and trust me, gigging while dealing with that is NOT easy, to say the least.
Tail Dragger is all over the stage moving around, but what he does here is extremely tame compared to lf what Wolf did in his prime.
For a number of white audiences, too often an old bluesman is supposed to be performing seated, not moving around, lying on his back and look 100% "dignified," but that was the vision by white music fans and far different than what it was when they performed for black audiences.
I look at myself as more of a traditional player, but also some things as much as you want to mirror the old stuff, it can never totally be 100% that. Hell, the idea of harp playing horn lines in stuff other than "down home" blues, until LW started doing it based on the huge influence of jump/swing blues, which was NEVER originally harp oriented at all (and in it's early years, it certainly wasn't guitar oriented either as a number of those bands didn't even have a guitar player).
Adam, I do agree with you on LW improvising a lot because when you hear his sessions, nothing was ever exactly the same, but when he recorded with Muddy, he had to be close to the same on every take because basically that's what both Muddy and Chess both wanted and used the best take with the band is jelling the most.
His later sounds were less swinging because part of it was the personnel and his last years, he was mostly a sideman and the sound was more guitar-centric and many of the more swinging lines, which for blues, originated with T-Bone, was being played less and so LW had to play more rhythmic rather than swinging.
As far as what contemporary players, I would rather not speculate because who knows what he'd really be thinking because I've met musicians who were more forward looking in their 20's may not be that way once they hit their 40's, 50's or later and so there's no way we'll ever really know that for sure since he's not with us today.
I see tons of players play LW's recordings note for note and tho it sounds great to hear someone pull it off, on the other hand, where does LW end and you begin where you put your own spin on it?? I know his stuff inside and out and then some, not just note for note, but dynamic for dynamic and then some to the point I can easily pull off a note for note job, but, unless requested, I NEVER play it note for note, but do the kinds of things with tone control and dynamics that give you the feeling while avoiding out and out cloning/imitating.
I remember not wanting to play Juke back in the 70's because so many bands badly botched up the groove, but while I was with Jimmy Rogers, he requested that I play it (Jimmy along with Muddy Waters were the original guitar players on the original session that produced the tune), I gladly did it because right off, I knew the groove would be played right, and even Jimmy didn't do it exactly note for note as far as the rhythm and comping goes and I never played note for note, but at the end of the tune, I got a big, totally approving smile from him because I had captured the feel without cloning.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
jnorem
86 posts
Mar 06, 2014
1:38 PM
|
"And of course the distinctly modern sound that LW came up with in the early and mid-1950s is now, sixty years down the line, somewhat dated."
Amplification hasn't changed all that drastically since the 50's. You can play the harmonica through a PA system or through an amplifier. Most blues harmonica players prefer an amplifier. Most guitar players do, too.
If the way to not sound dated is to come up with new licks and new phrasings, then why not just play a chromatic harmonica through an amplifier? What could be more post-modern than that? Is it possible that if Little Walter had lived a long life he would have come to put aside the relatively limited diatonic and moved over to the chromatic harmonica? I think that's eminently possible.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 06, 2014 1:39 PM
|
thorvaldsen76
174 posts
Mar 06, 2014
2:09 PM
|
Adam, I really see some of Your points! And I don't think that one should play note-for-note. But when I hear guys playing Little Walter-stuff and I can't hear anything recognizable, then I can't enjoy it.. Three of the best-known bluesmusicians in Norway recorded "Last Night", and there is nothing from the original. Not guitarparts or harpparts. Not even the opening-riff on guitar. That makes me sad..
Little Walter was indeed an innovator. But he had learned the blues-Language, he really knew what it was about. Many of the modern guys now, haven't done their homework. They come charging in and talking about developing the blues, making it modern. They do so without taking their time, listening and learning to the old blues. That makes them really miss what this music is all about..
|
BigAl
13 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:13 PM
|
"Play it the way you feel it", Has always been my motto. Blues needs both trad and modern. However, I think the most important thing on any instrument is developing your own voice. I respect the time and effort it takes to learn note for note, or with the same exact feel or tone. Its just not for me. The most fantastic thing about music is doing it my own way, and making my own statement. I want listeners to know its me, not LW or whomever. Doing something new is not lazy or disrespectful, I think it is ballsy !!!!! :)
|
Frank
3955 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:17 PM
|
Were are these guys with these balls Al? Can you expose them :)
|
nacoran
7578 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:17 PM
|
"I just really don't like this Taildragger character, that's pretty much it."
But why!!! lol. To be fair, I don't particularly like Howlin' Wolf, but it's because his pianist sounds like he honky tonked his piano and I hate that particular sound. I demand specificity!!! (Or not. I do like this grove though.)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
BigAl
14 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:24 PM
|
Frank,
I've been with the same woman for 18 years, haven't seen mine since then! I don't know if I'm qualified to expose anything. I'm all talk !!!!! That's some true blues!
|
atty1chgo
865 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:24 PM
|
TAILDRAGGER!
Love me some Taildragger. It's his personality that wins them over. Although to be honest, when the 10th straight song comes around and/or 3 slow ones in a row, the vocals can grate a little. But there are few like him, and he has seen a lot of the history, he breathes it when he walks.
That's Lurrie Bell on guitar, Billy Branch on harp, and Kenny "Beady Eyes" Smith on drums (son of Willie "Big Eyes" Smith). I think Bob Stroger on bass, and the other guitarist I don't recognize.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Mar 06, 2014 4:29 PM
|
jnorem
87 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:31 PM
|
"I just really don't like this Taildragger character, that's pretty much it."
"But why!!! lol. To be fair, I don't particularly like Howlin' Wolf, but it's because his pianist sounds like he honky tonked his piano and I hate that particular sound. I demand specificity!!! (Or not. I do like this grove though.)"
Howlin' Wolf was the real thing, and I love that man's music. Taildragger annoys the shit out of me. I just don't think he's very good, that's all.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 06, 2014 4:32 PM
|
Frank
3958 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:31 PM
|
18 years - you are doing something right for sure Al, balls an all,,,seriously though, I hear you loud and clear...playing your own voice on harp is the best way to experience bone deep satisfaction :)
Last Edited by Frank on Mar 06, 2014 4:32 PM
|
kudzurunner
4580 posts
Mar 06, 2014
4:51 PM
|
BBQ Bob: I always learn something from your posts, and your post above is no exception. In fact, you're probably the only player on the forum who could tell me I'm full of shit and convince me that I am. (You haven't done that here; I'm just saying.) That's because your insights come out long career making music with some serious bluesmen and you've got the ability to write about all of the aesthetic issues in a way that resonates with my own experience, although we have somewhat different experiences. But you've got enough experience under your belt that your generalizations FROM that experience always hold up, and enough passion to make everybody sit up and listen.
"I had captured the feel without cloning." That's a great line, and that's a good way of doing business when you're dealing with classic repertoire. I'm all in favor of that.
jnorem: I actually enjoy what Taildragger does in that first video. He's dramatic and he's coming out of a deep tradition. He's not Howling Wolf, but he's coming out of that tradition and he has a good sense of how to dramatize the song--how to occupy the space. Still, I'm always amazed by the wide swath that Wolf cut among his fellow black performers. Tail Dragger isn't the only Wolf wannabe, so to speak; a kinder term would be "the only Wolf homage-payer." Booba Barnes put on a Wolf voice; I saw him do that. There was money in it. Black folks in the Delta loved those songs and wanted that sound. If the original wasn't around, they'd take the next best thing.
Funny thing is, Wolf began as a Charley Patton wannabe, combining Patton's gravel-voice with Jimmie Rodgers's blue yodel. Lots of artists start off as a significant helping of somebody else. Then the truly creative ones become themselves.
But BBQ Bob is 100% right: some highly creative artists end up settling into "what they do" at a certain point. Mr. Satan did that. His creativity--if not his artistry--more or less dried up. By 1998, I couldn't get him to do new songs. Not even covers that I brought to him. Walter was like that, for the most part--although that one amazing video on the American Folk Blues DVD makes clear that he still had chops later on.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 06, 2014 6:20 PM
|
Frank
3963 posts
Mar 06, 2014
5:09 PM
|
There is no doubt...THANK GOD - for (youth)... Creativity is no friend of the mature musician, Imagining what reality is when your young is much different then actually living it - which for most begins the death blow to their creative juices :(
Last Edited by Frank on Mar 06, 2014 5:10 PM
|
jnorem
88 posts
Mar 06, 2014
5:25 PM
|
Creativity needs to be fed, your imagination needs constant feeding.
If you stay curious and never stop learning, you won't lose your creativity. You may not follow it as impulsively as you once did, but ideally you will have learned to use it with greater patience and skill. That's what it means to mature as an artist.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 06, 2014 5:27 PM
|
atty1chgo
866 posts
Mar 06, 2014
5:36 PM
|
To comments made by kudzurunner on LW songs:
Billy Branch opens each of his shows with "Son Of Juke" his version of Little Walter's "Juke". To tell you the truth, I never get tired of hearing it. The version he played a few weeks ago at his CD release party (video below) was just a touch slower than usual.
By the way, Billy has hauled out a Mesa Boogie amp from his basement lately to shows, instead of the Peavey Special 130, and he has it miked to Rosa's PA system in this clip. Next time I see him, I'll get a better look at it.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Mar 06, 2014 5:38 PM
|
Frank
3967 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:00 PM
|
Most musicains mature early on and peter out fairly quickly, shooting stars...
It is hard to recapture the Glory days even if they had a few good years of creative blessings :)
|
jnorem
89 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:22 PM
|
So don't be one of those musicians.
----------
Call me J
|
kudzurunner
4581 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:30 PM
|
atty1chgo: I never get tired of it either. Billy is doing exactly what I'm asking for. He's updating the tradition. That opening "thing" sets the stage. We're not giving you the same old thing. By the time he gets to the 2:50 point or so, he's morphed from Little Walter to Billy Branch. By the time he gets to 3:45, the stuff he's playing has NO relation to LW's original "Juke"--but it's absolutely in the spirit of Little Walter.
Two key changes, too. And they are key.
You can hear "Juke" in there, but he's taken it somewhere else, and put his stamp on it.
This is why, when I was thinking about who I wanted as the headliner for the first Hill Country Harmonica, I told Jeff that we needed Billy Branch. He's not just a great innovative player deeply rooted in the tradition, but he's been teaching harp to the masses (of schoolkids) for decades. He was the guy. He IS the guy. He's headlined HCH two out of three years. I need no convincing. But thanks for the video. It's a great performance.
See, what I like about Billy is that he's figured out what it means to be a modern harp player. He's trying to up the ante. Where was Chicago blues harp supposed to go after Little Walter? Cotton found one place, and it's a great place. Sugar Blue, coming out of NYC, found another, over-the-rainbow place. Billy planted himself squarely between the extremes.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 06, 2014 6:31 PM
|
Frank
3968 posts
Mar 06, 2014
6:31 PM
|
That's easy not to be for me, I'm not in that class of creative genuineness, though I am a late bloomer - so all hope is not lost, afterall even the Pope is a sinner :)
|
blueswannabe
421 posts
Mar 07, 2014
1:07 PM
|
@kudzu, Jagger ie probably the premier white guy who could pull that off.
|
Harp2swing
112 posts
Mar 07, 2014
2:14 PM
|
Here's a slow one from the same session. (before the Kalamazoo was hooked up to the balcony above)(see first vid not sure but I think the Kal was hooked into another amp below)
Last Edited by Harp2swing on Mar 07, 2014 2:17 PM
|
kudzurunner
4588 posts
Mar 08, 2014
4:26 AM
|
@blueswannabe: You may be right about Jagger. I'd never thought about him that way before, because he's (IMHOP) a terrible, ludicrous blues singer. But he does indeed own the stage, own the space, and now that you point it out, I wonder if he was watching the Wolf when they crossed paths (on Shindig, I believe) and modeling his own theatrics on the Wolf's.
Anybody who thinks I'm being too harsh on Jagger needs to see that show that was shot at The Checkerboard Lounge featuring the Stones and Muddy.
Now here's the interesting thing: in the course of THAT show, Muddy begins to copy JAGGER'S stage theatrics. Muddy was already a great showman, but during that show he begins to loosen up and flounce a little, like Jagger.
Which means that Muddy's theatrics, there, are actually traceable to Wolf, with the mediation of the British white boy.
Blues!
|
kudzurunner
4589 posts
Mar 08, 2014
4:33 AM
|
Here's the clip. If you watch from the beginning to the 5:00 point or so, you'll see what I mean. Muddy definitely starts moving like Jagger--copying his moves. I'm not so sure, though, that those Jagger moves owe much to Wolf! Muddy's little up-and-down thing around 5:30-5:33 surely isn't a part of the Chicago blues tradition! He's catching the rock-bug from Jagger. This is one of the more remarkable clips on YouTube.
And actually, there are MOMENTS when Jagger actually sings OK. The problem is, those moments are interspersed with other cringe-worthy moments.
The clip above is from the end of the evening. The clip below is from the beginning. It starts with classic Muddy. Then he gets Jagger onstage:
Jagger sings a couple of excellent lines between 6:00 and 6:20 in the second clip.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Mar 08, 2014 4:44 AM
|
blueswannabe
422 posts
Mar 08, 2014
6:50 AM
|
Here is Jagger on shindig talking about how "Howling Wolf is one of our greatest idols." They respected the wolf and told the host that the wolf was the first to record little red rooster, and ' it is a pleasure to have him' and 'thanks for booking him on the show.'THere is a definite influence. Look how the Wolf performs here. THere are similarities between the Wolf and Jagger who likely emulated the wolf. I don' t think jagger is any less outrageous than the wolf.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Mar 08, 2014 7:30 AM
|
Thievin' Heathen
295 posts
Mar 08, 2014
8:42 AM
|
"I don't come from the States so i carry no 'race' issue baggage(also i don't want to offend anyone) but having the black guy fronting it just made it seem more 'real'"
O.K. I'm offended. Not only is that the definition of "race baggage" but it suggests it's a uniquely American trait. You must not get out much. It's human race baggage.
|
wolfkristiansen
268 posts
Mar 09, 2014
3:23 AM
|
I played my best blues when I played with a black frontman. Why? I don't know. John Lee Hooker the first time, Albert Collins the second.
Adam, reflect on when you played your best blues; not your best Modern Blues Harmonica. Was it with Sterling Magee?
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
p.s. I appreciate your insightful, scholarly remarks on blues.
wk
Last Edited by wolfkristiansen on Mar 09, 2014 3:25 AM
|
DukeBerryman
218 posts
Mar 09, 2014
5:37 AM
|
@Thievin'Heathen That's what I hear in the blues - human race baggage. Personally, I can't separate the music from the human experience. We may be post modern, but we will never be post racial.
|
Post a Message
|
