Pauly22
30 posts
Oct 31, 2013
6:23 PM
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Hey guys,
Can you tell me if Gimme Shelter by the Rolling Stones is played in 2nd or 3rd position? Thanks.
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AC
45 posts
Oct 31, 2013
10:41 PM
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The classic studio version from Let It Bleed is in 3rd position. The repeating lick (appears first around 2:04) has a bent note on the 6th degree of the scale (bend on the 3 draw hole in 3rd position). That would be the 5 blow hole in 2nd position and the bend is just not there.
The song sounds in Db and if you follow along with a B harp, which puts you in 3rd position, you should be able to figure out the licks pretty easily.
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Gnarly
751 posts
Oct 31, 2013
11:05 PM
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I don't think it's 3rd--but you have described the lick properly.
If the draw 3rd note (unbent--that is, released) is Db, that would be a D harp. If the note is Bb, then it's a B harp.
3rd position is based on draw 4.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Oct 31, 2013 11:07 PM
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AC
46 posts
Oct 31, 2013
11:21 PM
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@Gnarly - you're of course right that the draw 3 note unbent is Db on a D harp (or more properly C#). But the lick in Gimme Shelter starts on a bend up to the 6th degree on the scale, which is Bb (3 draw hole on a B harp) then resolves to the root (Db) (4 draw on a B harp). I really think it's played in 3rd position but of course I could be wrong, in which case I stand corrected.
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Grey Owl
381 posts
Nov 01, 2013
4:34 AM
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Just had a look at this in 5th on an A harp following the recent thread topic. It was a cool work out.
Useful notes: -1+2-2-3**-3-4+5+6-6-7-8+8+9-10
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GamblersHand
468 posts
Nov 01, 2013
4:51 AM
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From memory I think it's just an F# played cross harp.
I think that the riff is based around the 2 draw bend released to the 2 draw.
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MindTheGap
45 posts
Nov 01, 2013
6:23 AM
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I agree with Grey Owl, I hear A-harp 5th Position, starting with -4' then tongue slap on 5-blow and a bit of -3'' at the end of the riff.
The 2nd variant of the riff goes -3'' -3 +5.
The outro is again the -4' +5.
So, that's now two recorded songs with 5th position! (this and the one on the other thread).
It's an unusual interval isn't it, flattened 6th to tonic?
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 01, 2013 6:34 AM
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Martin
500 posts
Nov 01, 2013
7:38 AM
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Hey guys, take it easy here. It´s, as Gamblers hand says, a simple 2nd pos riff, played on an F# harmonica (unless the recording was pitch shifted). Holes 1 and 2 used. No particular skills required except being able to bend.
Sir Mick is generally unimpressive as a mouth-harmonicist, but here he nails it perfectly.
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MindTheGap
46 posts
Nov 01, 2013
8:03 AM
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Martin - Ok, well it was a nice idea. I searched elsewhere and Winslow Yerxa says it's F# 2nd Position.
So we are back down to one recording in 5th.
I don't have an F# harp myself, and I'm not going to buy one just to play this. So let me change this too: you can play it on an A-harp. Although, it does sound a lot like the record...
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Grey Owl
383 posts
Nov 01, 2013
8:49 AM
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As I said previously I have enjoyed playing the whole song in 5th on an A
but couldn’t get what Jagger sounds like he’s playing ie a draw bend released to a straight note on his mini solo. The only harp that seemed to work was an F# in 2nd position ie whole step bend on 2 released to straight draw on 2.
I don’t own an F#harp so I transposed the song key from C# to C here is a sample of the transposed harp played by Jagger.
You can try out an C in 1st, F in 2nd, Bb in 3rd, and Ab in 5th on this sample.
Here is an interesting break down of the original track in C# into vocal and instrument parts.
This has always been one of my favourite Stones songs and the voice of guest vocalist Merry Clayton …..well, shivers!!!
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GamblersHand
469 posts
Nov 01, 2013
9:06 AM
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I love the production of this song, including the harmonica. The reverb gives distinctive overtones, especially on the 2 draw.
@MindtheGap - I think that Charlie Musslewhite plays 5th on the version of Way Down in the Hole by the Blind Boys of Alabama. Others think it may be third, though...
There's a youtube clip somewhere of Steve Guyger playing positions 1-5. His 5th position playing was very sweet, though I'm not aware of any recordings
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Grey Owl
384 posts
Nov 01, 2013
9:11 AM
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Here is a LINK to the above production in the song key of C. Wail away on an F in 2nd:)
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Last Edited by Grey Owl on Nov 01, 2013 9:16 AM
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Martin
501 posts
Nov 01, 2013
10:42 AM
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On one of the Trio Globo discs, no 2 I think, there´s a track where Howard Levy plays in 5th.
But on would assume there are dozens out there, since this is a relatively easy position? Not a whole lot comes to mind, though ...
For those interested in changing pitch on a track, e.g. "Gimme shelter", you can do that in Audacity.
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MindTheGap
47 posts
Nov 01, 2013
10:59 AM
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Grey Owl. Thanks for all that. Aside from the positions thing, I agree this is a fav stones track - and a good example of how the amped harp can sound so compelling with just a few notes. That breakdown you posted is great.
GamblersHand - well, if anyone is record with 5th (blues I mean) it's going to be CM. I will look. But there will have to be more than 3 notes to positively identify it!
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