Hopefully this isn't a topic already buried somewhere within the forum..
I'm looking for a better harp amp for small to medium clubs. Currently using a 57 Silvertone 1331 (6-8 watts, 2 x 8" Jensen - this one was modified somewhere along the line adding the 2nd speaker). The Silvertone sounds great, but loud guitar players will cover it up in a heartbeat. Also have a Blues Jr. but, we all know they don't work too well for harp; though maybe better with Lone Wolf pedals.
The 3 I'm considering:
Mission 32-20 w a 12" Harp Gear Double Trouble (2 x 8") 65 Princeton Reverb RI
Any opinions on these? The Mission amps sound great online with a lot of bottom end, but there doesn't seem to be an abundance of pro players using them.. Not like Harp King or Harp Gear.
The Princeton will give you a little more versatility in that it has a reverb and can be used well with more instruments than just harp. It's a jewel for harp, which can't always be said for some of the Fender RI amps.
I have played a Double Trouble and it was awesome in the truest sense of the word! You Probably couldn't run afoul with one in your arsenal.
I have little experience with Missions though. Rick Davis here on the forum is a major advocate of Missions however. You should talk to him.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Sep 19, 2012 1:43 PM
I have had a Mission 32-20 Since last April , and I love it. Mine has 3x10 but I have been able to use it for small medium or larger situations. It is built with top quality parts and the workmanship and service from Bruce Collins is superb. I would recommend this amp in a heartbeat. I think there is another forum member who owns a 32-20 with the 12" speaker you are thinking of. I also own a 68 SF Princeton re verb. It is a fantastic amp, but in my experience not in the same league as the 32-20.
Last Edited by on Sep 19, 2012 1:41 PM
I second the Mission. I haven't used a 32-20, but Bruce modded my SF Champ form 5 watts to 12watts(clean)-16watts(maxed out volume/distortion). What he did was put a bigger output tranny, added another 6V6 and preamp tube, de-tuned the tone controls and replaced some of the caps to oil and paper units for better tone. I am running this in a custom made 1x12 cab that is loaded with a Weber 12A125-S and this thing has major crunch.
I guess what I am saying is that Bruce does some of the best work around and is a tube amp wizard!
Last Edited by on Sep 19, 2012 2:06 PM
First the disclaimer...I do not work for Mission but, I do know Bruce, have played with him at jams and have been lucky enough to play through and test many different mission amps.
I highly recommend his amps. They have the nice bells and whistles to configure them to the sound you want. I can tell you they sound even better in person than online. I’m just pulling together the money to have a 3x10 50 built.
As for durability, I know a “local pro” player that’s been gigging his for about 10 years and it still sounds great.
Here is a video of Ronnie Shellist playing through my Mission 32-20 amp at my blues jam at Ziggies.
DISCLAIMER: Ronnie is not an endorser of Mission amps and this video should not be construed as such. He came to my jam and that was what I had on stage.
That is Todd Edmunds on bass, ex-Jason Ricci Band. He now tours with Otis Taylor.
---------- -Rick Davis
Last Edited by on Sep 19, 2012 2:57 PM
smwoerner, I have the 32-20 with the 50 PT and 35 OT. It is plenty strong, but I have the option of easily going to the 50 OT. without a lot of work or expense. I have thought about it, but at this point it seems like overkill for my situation. What you say about available bells and whistles is certainly true.
@MJ - I agree that the 50 is probably a bit overkill but it's so easy to switch between the 26 and 50 I figure it's just nice to have. I'm glad you're enjoying your 32-20.
Thanks everyone for the advice on using Mission amps and the offers to play through your rigs! I'm definitely leaning towards these amps and hope to make a decision within a couple of weeks.
rdfindley, I have the 50W version in a 1x15 configuration. I like the punchy feel of the 50W, however it has no problem in a lower/softer mode as well, after a very brief familiarization. I wouldn't call it overkill at all, more like versatile, but it did take a little experimentation. I run two TAD 6L6WGC-STR and a 5U4 rectifier. I run a 5751 and a 12AT7 in the preamp, because the Weber 15 was a little touchy. I can crank thje volume to 8 with no feedback, using a strong CR bullet mic, but generally I use less. That's just max standing in front of it.
The Danelectro Commando is a nice versatile amp. It is a suitcase amp, amp and 4x8 alnico speakers on one side, and 4X8 alnico speaker cab on other. Also has 2 separate channels with separate tone controls, 3 inputs per channel. Terrific tone, use 4 or 8 speakers depending on room. Legend states LW's favorite.
rbeetsme, Interesting amp, the Danelectro you mention. Are they available anywhere? From what I was able to read about them, they were made from 1954-1960. Are they being re-issued?
The Danelectro Commando is a pretty rare vintage puppy and as such is expensive as well prone to reliability issues. Great sounding amp though.
The comment about getting more amp than you think you need is good advice IMHO.
If you are open to other amps to consider I would strongly recommend the Sonny Jr. Super Cruncher, if you can find one. IMO, in a variety of important areas there are only two other amps that come close. Both are larger and neither of them are in your list.
Hmm LSC! Now you have me curious. What are the two other amps?..... And Joe: email me a review if you buy the Mission please? I myself (amongst various Premier and Magnatone amps) blow through a Kinder Soulful but winning a lottery is easier than getting one of these! I third Mike the Ninja about buying more rather than less if you're going to be taking it on stage: that's performance-axiomatic.....Finally I think rbeetsme might be selling the Danelectro (unless he wants to trade me for my big 15'' Magnatone!!!!!) and he is very dependable! d ---------- Facebook
Some people complain that this is not a true A-B comparison since the amps are not in the same room being played by the same person and recorded on the same day. Those concerns are valid. But I could not get that accomplished.
What I did was take some audio that SJ published to promote his Cruncher amp, assuming that he considered it a good representation of how the amp sounds. I also made a recording of Nic Clark playing the Mission amp and did it in a similar way, using a Zoom recorder placed across the room from the amp. I normalized both audio clips for the same volume level and did nothing else; no EQ or other processing.
It is not a perfect comparison by any means, but it will give you a sense of the different design philosophies of the two amps.
Some prefer the bright tone of the Cruncher, and others prefer the deeper tone of the Mission. It's all a matter of taste.
Didn't know Danos were rare, one sold on ebay recently. The best amps I've played through were Sonny Jrs. There 5 on ebay last winter, sellers couldn't give them away! Good prices too, don't understand.
Last Edited by on Sep 21, 2012 12:52 PM
I was all set to order a Sonny Jr last winter after saving up enough money for 6 months. Unfortunately Sonny became ill and shut down his business for an indefinite time. As a result I chose the Mission 32-20 and have counted it as a blessing ever since. One thing that always bothered me with the Sonny Jr. was the fact that after conversing with him via email about wanting 10" ceramic speakers instead of the speaker choice available (12 and 8), he seemed adamant about the fact that 10" speakers were not an option. With the 32-20, I discovered to my delight that a 3x10 model was easy to accomplish. I believe that amps are somewhat a matter of personal choice as to tone and so the Sonny Jr. and 32-20 are not so far apart that there cannot be room for both in the world. They both sound great. Lastly I am more content and have had really good relations with Bruce at Mission amp. He also is easy to deal with and seemed to genuinely care about my opinions as to what I was looking for. I have continued to communicate with Bruce since getting my 32-20 last Spring. If need be he will be there to help me in anything I may require as far as my amplifier is concerned. Hey, Rick and 528hemi, thanks for the sound clip[s.
I've seen SJ Crunchers and Super Crunchers offered for sale on Harp-L maybe twice over the last year or so. I just checked eBay and the only SJ amp listed was a SJ1 with the four 8-inch speakers.
What happened to SJ? I know he became ill with his Hep 3, but he later announced he was offering amps again, and now his website is defunct. Does anybody know if he is still building amps or if he plans to in the future?
Sonny is still recovering from his latest bout with his illness-but he did commission a few builds of Crunchers and Avengers-and was helping out a freind who passed on by advertising a Sonny II and some other amps. He is on the mend,but he has a long,tedious task ahead. 10" speakers are not an option on the Cruncher due to the difference in baffle boards-{go price them and then sit on them for while}-plus,those amps were built to run those speakers at optimum sound projection and depth of tone-I am more than pleased with mine,a Super upgrade from a Cruncher I purchased here on this forum. I gets into the house unmiked better than any amp I own-look at my pic under "Amps you own right now" on this forum.
Not to hi-jack the thread, but we all know that Blues Jrs don't work well for harp? Not without a little work, but they're handy little amps for practice or a small venue.
@bigd The other two I was thinking of were an SJ Avenger and the 6x10 HarpKing. The Soulful could certainly be added to the other two but I think it's about the same size as a Super Cruncher is it not? In theory one could add a Masco ME-25 with original 12" cabs, a breath taking amp, but very hard to find and really not remotely practical for gigging.
@MJ - My experience with Sonny Jr is he is open to suggestion where practical. Most likely he didn't want to do it because a 2x10 plus an 8 is not what a Super Cruncher is.
He tried endless speaker combinations before arriving at the mix he has with the SC. See Greg Heumanns comments from Dec 4, 2011. I don't think there is another human being on the planet that is as obsessed with amplified harmonica tone than Sonny. All he made were harp amps. Not guitar. Not bass. Harp amps and then only one or two models at a time. What he created is a work of art. Asking him to change speakers in his creation after literally the thousands of hours and thousands of amps and combinations he tried would be like asking Van Gogh if he wouldn't mind using a smaller paint brush next time. I could imagine that got Sonny's back up but only because he cares that much about what he puts his name on. And despite any personal difficulties he may be experiencing you will never find anyone more willing to go the extra mile and a half for a customer, even though he has been burned badly on more than one occasion. He has done things for me completely unasked that just made me shake my head in wonder.
You're right. Tone is a matter of taste and there is room for more than one certainly. But if you had a preconceived notion that a 10 was better than a 12 you were right in going for the Mission. It was easy for Bruce to do because he had a 3x10 in his line.
@Rick Davie - You know,some like Ford some like Chevy. It's all a matter of taste and sometimes other factors but personally I would not describe the Super Cruncher as bright by design. Now you can have it bright if you like, it's a very versitile amp, but there is more bottom available in that amp than a Kardashian woman.
---------- LSC
Last Edited by on Sep 21, 2012 2:08 PM
In all fairness,that comparison involved a Cruncher,not a Super Cruncher.
I only played my stock Cruncher once before I upgraded it to a Super-I would not say it was bright,but maybe slighty underpowered-I needed to bring the amp to 7 or 8 on voulme to get it wound up,but then I was on the cusp of feedback-
LSC, You may be well right in that Sonny Jr is open to suggestion. I did not mean to imply that he "got his back up". Merely that he was adamant in his belief that 8"ers were better that 10"ers. I agree that is his right. I did not have a "preconceived notion" on the 10" speaker, rather an opinion based on hands on experience with using different speakers. Possibly as much experience as Sonny. I have no doubt that he treats all of his customers with the highest service. However, we are beginning to pick at nits. The main thrust of this thread is to discuss the merits of different amps and In the final analysis I feel as if both amps offer high quality and service. My choice was the 32-20 and I am merely conveying the reasoning behind that choice.
tmf714....... Hey T. Regarding the SC " It gets into the house unmiked better than any amp I own-look at my pic under "Amps you own right now" on this forum." Even more than the HK's? My best. d ---------- Facebook
Thats what the bass player said at the jam I attend on Thursdays at The Beach Shack in Cocoa Beach-I dont know myself ,due to the fact I am standing next to the amps in question when playing.
I have the red HarpKing for sale,and I need to check its performance before selling-I will return this Thursday with HarpKing in tow to see what the bass player says.
Yeah, it is all subjective and everybody is right about whatever tone and amp they prefer. We are fortunate to be living in the Golden Age of harp amps. Yep, I said it.
There are so many great harp specific amps out there it spoils us. I've played scads of new harp amps since I started the Blues Harp Amps blog 5 years ago, and I can think of only one that I truly didn't like. Most were exceptionally fine amps in one way or another. There are so many choices and price ranges and tonal variations, it is great.
SJ deserves a huge amount of respect for helping revolutionize the harp amp market. So does Kendrick and Kinder and Harpgear and Meteor and Mission and Megatone and others. It is an embarrassment of riches for us compared to 40 years ago.
A good player can get good tone from any of these amps. You can buy with confidence from any of these vendors. We are lucky indeed.
We seemed to have strayed from the original subject of this thread-helping rdfindley56 decide between the HG double Trouble, The Mission 32-20 with 12" speaker and the RI Princeton reverb. All amps that are very good ..and very available at prices that while not cheap are not extremely expensive.
Well, in that list the Mission amp is the heavyweight in terms of power. The other two amps are cathode biased 2x 6V6, making maybe 12 to 15 watts. The Mission 32-20 is 2x 6L6 with fixed bias (switchable to cathode), producing 32 watts. My amp measures 35 watts just as it begins to clip, and I've seen 50 watts on the scope as I am playing it. The 12-inch Eminence Cannabis Rex is a 50 watt speaker with a very high sensitivity of 102 db at one watt/one meter. The amp is very loud and brawny. You can hear in the video of Ronnie Shellist that it is more that capable of handling a loud blues jam.
I've gigged mine more than 100 times. It sounds great with big crunchy tone if you want, or clean and mellow. It weighs only 35 lbs. Given the list of the three good choices in this thread, I think the Mission amp is a best option.
I own a Harpgear Double Trouble. It is fixed bias. It runs 2x6V6's and has a 12AY7 preamp tube. If you can play, you'll get fine tone out of it. It put out between 18-20 watts through a pair of 8" speakers. Its a great grab and go amp. It hangs in with bands that play as loud as I want to play.
If I had to have one amp, that would be it.
I have no experience with the Mission. I do like the Princeton Reverb RI. If I was going to consider the Fender, I would try the exact one that I was going to buy.
I have a Sonny Jr Avenger that I may be interested in selling if the offer was right. I'm not sure if i want to yet. I just don't use it much any more, as I mostly just play straight through the PA. I can email pictures, but right now I'd just like to see what the market would be. It's a great great amp, just a bit heavy for my use. I also have a Fat Dog model 1A that I will be listing soon. It's probably one of if not the last one built by Robbie before he got rid of the business. I just don't really care much for hauling gear around anymore.
My jr isn't too bad.. I use a 12AU7 in the first stage of the preamp and swapped in an electo-harmonix speaker. Just looking for a richer sound is why I'm looking around.
Settling in on the Mission and trying to decide on 2 x 10" or 1 x 10" + 1 x 12". Bruce says the latter is the most popular. Seems like you'd have the best of both worlds.. Any opinions?
We seem to be in exactly the same situation... I have a few smaller amps and really enjoy my Blues Jr... 12AU7 in the 1st preamp, and a weber alnico speaker...
I'm actually waiting to hear back from Bruce about ordering a Mission...
rdfindley56 - Sorry I can't be more help, but they all sound good. I obviously prefer the 1x12 because that is the one I own. I've either played or listened to other people play the other configurations and they all sound great. It's a very tough choice.
Keep in mind that all the audio and video samples of the Mission Amp are played on my 1x12 amp. If that is the tone you like, you should order that configuration.
Talk to MJ about the 3x10. I've played the 12+10 and it just kills.
If you need any advice on set-up or anything else, go ahead and shoot me an email. I have more experience with it than anybody and I will he happy to help you out.
---------- -Rick Davis
Last Edited by on Sep 22, 2012 9:00 PM
Ordered a Mission 32-20 2 x10 today.. After all my research, for me the Mission amps seem have the best features/value for the $$. Believe me, it was tough. Harp Gear and Megatone were looking very good..
After checking prices on Victoria amps of similar configurations, these all look even better!
Thanks for all of the feedback and recommendations!
Just got a mission 32-20, 2x10, and it's a great amp. Sounds as deep as my masco. Great bass. It's very responsive. I should have bought a boutique harp amp much earlier as suggested by some veterans here. Build quality is excellent. I would recommend it. Bruce Collins is very customer service oriented as well.
Delta, Yes. Pretty much what you would imagine from more speaker surface. Bigger tone, still with the same character.
I don't want to dissuade you from that amp, but you might consider the 2x10 with one Eminence Lil Budddy and one Eminence Legend alnico. I blew through one a couple weeks ago at the Mission Amps shop and really liked it. It is a smaller cab and I think it costs less.
But either way I know you will be pleased. I played the 12+10 at a loud blues jam hosted by Al Chesis and that thing really honked. Good room coverage.
All of Bruce's harp amps have a signature tone: a soft distortion and big low end, no shrill highs. Lots of texture and overtones. They will crunch if you dig in. And he likes loud.
I got the 10 inch eminence I'll buddy and the 10 inch Jensen p10q alnico. I like the ceramic / alnico combo. Also like the darker and brighter combo as well.
