So I was at a jam recently and at the break asked a guitar playing friend to show me the melody of a song they played. As I was standing there the harp player came up and I told him I was working on the melody. His response was that he could show me how to play over it and when asked he didn’t actually know the melody.
Now, we can’t know the melody to all the songs at a jam and as such it’s important to know how to improvise. Also, a lot of blues songs don’t really have a defined melody.
However, as musicians shouldn’t we strive to learn as many melodies as possible? I seem to encounter a lot of harp players that don’t really know any melodies, ie songs. They can play good solos, fill and comp but, can’t carry a single melody (well maybe the Saints or Amazing Grace).
I think this may be why a lot of the blues jammers end up sounding repetitive and never really advance. They learn riffs and solos but, never really learn many songs from start to finish. I also think this is the difference between a lot of the new players and past players. Many of the past players either played solo or sat in with bands where they were expected to know the melody of the popular songs.
In the rare cases when I see a jammer that does know a melody they don’t really incorporate it into their solos. They don’t seem to know how to build a solo off of a melody and thus end up play the same old riffs.
When I go to Jazz jams I can tell the more experienced players because sometime during the solo I hear enough of the melody to identify the song. This is almost never the case at a blues jam.
I’m making it my goal to learn melodies and then build solo’s incorporating the melody. Who else takes this approach?
I find myself playing the same old comfortable riffs when jamming and have been trying to learn more melodies. Sometimes I can just listen as the song goes, and pick up enough of the melody to throw it in on a solo, but the more melodies I get down, the better I can improvise.
I recently started practicing some scale exercises from my Arban's Trombone method book using the harminica and I find it is helping me to set where the notes are into "muscle memory" so that when I hear a melody am am more likely to be able to play it on the harp without a lot of struggling or figuring.
In another thread, I put out a call to create a list of commonly requested Blues tunes for precisely the reasons described. I like to know the head in a tune and build a solo off of it. I like to think that it makes the tune more recognizable to an audience.
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2012 8:15 PM
I don't see how you can ignore the melody to the song. I often use it to start my solos and may take up the whole first twelve bards of 24 with close to straight melody (perhaps extra color here and there), then may make my grand departure in the second twelve, but I still keep the thought going.
I suppose if you have a memorized solo that fits you might throw it at the song, but I think you do a song a disservice by not keeping your ears open for what is actually goIng on...
I am guilty as charged. But as probably 90% of standard blues tunes can be ad libbed with a reasonable supply of riffs in your pocket i have just been too damn lazy about working on melodies. The occassional blues player i have heard who can work in some sort of melody gets my respect. Actually there is one blues standard when i think of it that never seemed to work by just playing riffs "Walking by myself" that one i did learn the melody to. Probably a couple of others but Walking stands out
Last Edited by on Aug 13, 2012 10:36 PM
@Noodles - That’s kinda what got me started on this and I thought I’d start another thread rather than hijack yours.
@STME58 – Thanks for your input. I see a lot of players that just seem to do a general improvisation over their 12 bars…start out on a long draw then a warble a couple of riffs then another warble, some triplets, a turn around lick and then to the next player. When done well and in key it sounds fine…I’m still very new and only know a few melodies so, I’m guilty of this right now. I’m just don’t want to get stuck here. Like you, I’m doing a lot of scale practice and also ear interval training to help me identify melody notes.
@KingoBad – What you’re describing is exactly where I want to go. I love it when a song is called that I know and I can play the melody one time around…It’s even better when the guitar player doesn’t known the melody and I can do 12 before the vocals start to help set up the singer.
To be fair I see this with guitar players as well as harp players at jams. When I first started playing I didn’t really notice this. Now, as I learn more melodies I’m becoming more aware.
What really bugs me now is that I’m hearing this more and more with harp players in bands. At a jam it’s expected…but, if it’s a song in a set list…know the melody…and play it.
Anyone who can't play melodies is not a real musician. Percussionists and drummers excepted... although, even there, the best ones understand melody and know how to accentuate it. (See "Copeland, Stewart.")
I totally agree with the OP on this one. For me, the key to learning a song, any song, is learning the lyrics and sung melody. After all, it's the singer who the musicians are supporting. If you can emphasize (repeat) some key parts of the melody you are supporting the song. I learn a song by playing the sung melody and singing it myself. Then I work out some variations for a solo, or rhythmic accompaniment. I've really been into gospel blues and even some major key gospels lately because they have such strong catchy melodies. As for 12-bar blues songs, it's the sung melody and rhythm suggested by the lyrics that makes one song different from another, so why wouldn't you pay attention to that? It's also great scale practice to play the melody of a song. Much more fun too than running scales up and down. ----------
I usually use the approach noted above by KingoBad, particularly if there is a clearly recognizable melody. I begin with the melody, a line that harmonizes with the melody, or some line related to the melody, and may play a verse or close to a verse this way. Then after establishing the relationship to the melody, I take off into soloing. I often try to rejoin the melody at the end of the solo, or the end of a verse if the solo is more than two verses.
If I am immediately following another player's solo, I may start by echoing part of the last of their solo, then revisit the melody before ending my solo. ----------
We haven't touched on improvised melodies here have we? Most of you seem to be talking about melodies from classic blues tunes.
What about when you get a backing track from a tune you don't know? You need to improvise a melody in that case or just fill with stock riffs and wables etc.
I find the improvisation both frustrating and yet rewarding when it comes good.
I have a list of about 70 melodies I can play both guitar (chords) and harmonica (possible much more songs which I can play only melody or only chords). I think it's rather small amount and I absolutely sure that every musician (and every harmonica player) have to know as much different melodies and chord progressions as possible. From different styles of music. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
What about the good improvisers who add there own flavour to a song? when i played a song often enough the solos fell into place naturaly and stayed the same!! but on a well known song like Help me or hoochie coochie man you stay true to the original.
This is such interesting reading for me. I'm guilty of not playing melodies and the bands I play in don't do all blues, so it's even more important IMO to get to know more about the melody thing. All new to me, but great discipline.
Yup, I'm all about melody. I started playing harp about 8-9 months back now after over 30 years of guitar, vocals and bass. I do enjoy blues, but I'm far more interested in using the harp for all kinds of other music so I just started playing it that way. My goal is to be as fast at learning a melody on harp as i am on guitar {which is often pretty fast, sometimes instantly if it's not crazy stuff} . I am only now starting to cop a bunch of standard blues riffs, but still I try and learn a few whole melodies/vocal lines for of songs every week. This week I learned Sittin' On A Dock Of The Bay, and The Way You Look Tonight {overblow on 6 for the middle section}. Last week, Tears Of A Clown {overblow on 4, that's still really rough}.
Ok, let’s stick with the amateurs. Here are two different jams, one group of musicians actually know the song and the melody and the other well,we'll just say they have their own take (and a pretty good one)…
Edit:Now, maybe the second groups version is just a new take on the song, they are obviously good musicians. However, they seem to have lost the original.
Whereas the first group really works with the original melody, both the harp player and guitar player. There is no doubt what the song is…
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2012 7:00 PM
Noodles, I was going to post the Eric Bibb / Grant Dermody version (an all time favorite of mine)...but, thought it was just too high of a mark to set :)
The Eric Bib/Grant Dermondy version is an interesting counterpoint to this discussion, where mirroring a vocalist by playing the melody at the same time is more of a backup thing.. tricky to do without stepping on the vocal, but less distracting than wailing away at something else all together.
If another soloist has flogged the crap out of the melody already then you gotta do something else maybe just refer to it in passing.
What makes harp players solos really monotonous is staying on the root notes that are safe regardless of when the chord changes occur, if your solo does not at least imply the chord changes, that gets boring quick.
Walterharp, you make some good points. The Bibb/Dermondy version is a great example of how if you know the melody a harmonica can actually work as a harmony/rhythm instrument and not just a solo instrument. I’m not saying harmonica players should play all of the time but, they could play a lot more if they played the right things at the right time.
The reason I posted the Eric Bibb version was merely to give an example of how one can derive a melody line from the vocals.
I am of the opinion that without "some" melody line, then you're essentially jamming. There's nothing wrong with jamming, except that when you play for pay, I think one needs to do better than jam.
Playing alongside the vocalist (mirroring) for the entire tune is rare. That's a good thing.
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2012 7:23 PM
If I don't have the melody, or a harmony or a counter melody going, or improvising on the melody, or supporting the rhythm, then maybe I don't have role. If I am not supporting the song, helping to unify it somehow, or otherwise communicate it, then I am a distraction. And believe me, I've hacked many songs to death learning this, AND I'm still learning it!
Too many harp players, especially those newer to the instrument, when they see players doing solos, often seem to get the impression (as it seems to me) that playing melody is beneath them and too often so many players can't play melody to save their lives, let alone harmonies.
There are blues tunes that the soloing is based on basically mirroring the vocal melody and a classic example of this is the Big Walter Horton classic "Easy", and the tune itself is basically an instrumental version of the Ivory Joe Hunter classic, "Almost Lost My Mind." The only difference in how BW plays the vocal melody is that where the original melody has a major 7th being played (with the tune being in E, for those who don't know their theory or too often don't know what notes are on their instruments, which is far too often the case with many harp players), that note is a D#, and BW plays the flat/dominant 7th, which is D.
Most of the verses he's playing embellishments of the melody before finally doing a "solo" chorus, and then ends with another embellishment of the melody.
So yes, learning to play melody is very important and regardless of the genre being played, there are many times a solo that is essentially mirroring the melody will do more to enhance a tune than just mindless riffing that can detract from a tune.
For a diatonic player, learning to play melody in all positions is a good teaching tool to make sure you get all of your bends and overblows with absolutely spot on accuracy in articulation and intonation.
Too many players, and not just harp players tend to go the route of "one size fits all," and that's an incredibly foolish mistake because most people who go that route often don't fit into anything they do particularly well. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@Tookatooka, Nobody's Fault But Mine, is a great example of the type of bluesy gospel tunes that I mentioned above. You could pick just about any Blind Willie Johnson tune and find a strong melody based on the blues scale. A lot of other gospel songs use pentatonic scales.
As far as improvising melodically, I'd think about keeping the phrases fairly short and flowing (so that people can follow them) and repeat phrases you like so that people know those are something intentional and imply some meaning. And also work in a call and response mode where you play a phase and answer that with another phrase, etc., keeping them short and conversational. Anyway, this is what I'm working on. ----------
"So yes, learning to play melody is very important and regardless of the genre being played, there are many times a solo that is essentially mirroring the melody will do more to enhance a tune than just mindless riffing that can detract from a tune."
learn as many melodies as you possibly can. any good player of any stripe can play melodies like falling off a log. i learned from listening to Charlie McCoy country records. later on i discovered my teenage listening/practice time was well spent. ---------- MP affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Great thread. And Frank: somehow I missed that one by Dennis when it came out, but that first chorus alone, with that amazing upward diminshed run--all on a super low harp!--is worth the price of admission. I've just favorited it. Lots to study there, even for Doc Gussow. "Saints" is a great example of the sort of song blues harp players should make a study of. It's not a blues at all, or rather it's a gospel blues, either eight or sixteen bars depending on whether you count it as 2/4 or 4/4, with characteristic harmonica movements that can help you play other songs. Dennis owns it in that video.
Adam, I can understand you missing it - my head spins just imagining how busy your life must be to accomplish all you do through out the year/s...I love that Papa Lightfoot type riff he incorporates at 1:48 thru 55...Do you have a BackTrack that you sell that has that "Saints" groove?
a contrarian view: Melody makes it easier (not harder) to solo interestingly IMO- but most Blues tunes have very little melody going on.
The examples of gospel blues and "Stand By Me" do have melody -as do most country and folk tunes. I love playing stuff like that.
Most Blues tunes on the other hand, have hooks, or defining riffs, more than what I'd call a melody. Those defining rifs ,(think Messin with the Kid, Juke, One Way Out etc.) sort of like the 'head' in jazz - should give you a starting (and often ending) point for your solo's. You damn well oughta know how to play or "quote" those - or something at least based on them. If not - I strongly suggest 'woodshedding' some more - till you can.
The tough thing about Blues, is that without a compelling melody - you are forced to be inventive building solos with your toolbox of riffs, scales, runs and patterns. The aforementioned 'defining riff' might be a start and end point, - but you've gotta keep it interesting when your improvising beyond that start point, - and that's not easy - especially for longer solos. If you don't have something soulful, rythmic and dynamic to play, -faggedaboutit. Being inventive with a toolbox of 'riffs' is not easy - or should I say, not easy to do well.
When I play slide guitar, I sometimes want the slide to mimic the human voice, so knowing the melody line is important. On most instruments, including the harmonica, of course, the melody can be a launching pad for improvisations. On many jams, the melody opens and closes the piece. A couple of examples are John Coltrane's version of My Favorite Things and the Allman Brothers Band's Mountain Jam. It is impressive to me when a harmonica player takes a melody and fancies it up by adding his or her own personal touches and tricks.
I even get sheet music for a song if I have trouble figuring out the melody line for a song. And if not melody, at least learn the defining riff for a song and not just for a song that has harp on it. If the rest of the band learns it, why not you? I have a blues/rock guitar player who likes to have me sit in because I know the defining riff to the Allman's version of "You don't love me" among others.
It's good to know all kinds of melodies; lots of jazz musicians and a few blues harp players like to inject bits of melodies of completely unrelated songs into their solos, and it sounds very clever. For instance. George Harmonica Smith throws a bit of "Davey Crockett" into one of his instrumentals, and I have an mp3 of Jason Ricci, Pat Ramsey and Dennis Gruenling jamming together on an instrumental where they start throwing bits of familiar songs at each other; one them throws in the beginning of "The Jetsons" theme song, for example. Right now, I'm trying to incorporate overbending into my style, so I've added a lot of old pop standards, show tunes and TV/movie themes to my practice regime. "Autumn Leaves" in 5th position is especially good for this, because it has the 4th, 5th and 6th hole overblows in it. I agree with bonedog568, however; some (I wouldn't say "a lot") blues tunes have melodies that are just too simple. Of course, if I'm playing a solo on something like "I'm a King Bee" or "Honest I Do" I'll use the melody in my solo; but with some other tunes which sound great when sung, to play the melody in your solo...you might as well be playing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" (not the Buddy Guy version).
@DanP This is the best and most traditional way to structure a solo. I want to see what can be done with the melody. And if you can't mimic a melody on your instrument of choice, than your ear needs more practice.
