HawkeyeKane
460 posts
Nov 22, 2011
11:09 AM
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I know this topic has been covered on many occaisions. But I still wanna get a feel from everybody on the subject considering there've been many new recruits to the forum since it was last discussed.
Lemme begin by saying that I DO NOT like the majority of the cheap, Chinese manufactured harps out there today. They're leaky, they have inferior tone, and they just feel fragile for the most part. Like, when you shake one, often there's a rattle from some loosened plate screw of a metal filing that's lodged inside.
I would say the ones I detest would include:
HOHNER
Piedmont Blues
Blue Ice
Hoodoo Blues (although these first three are good for experimenting with SP20 reedplates)
Bluesband
Pocket Pal
Old Standby
Great Little Harp
American Ace
ALSO...
Jambones
Victory's
LoDuca Brothers
Kay Chicago Blues (but I have used these as decent backups once or twice)
There are a few cheap harps I actually don't mind using. One is the Huang Silvertone Deluxe. They take some getting used to and some tightening of the reedplates. Hey, if they were good enough for Norton Buffalo, why not? Another is The Suzuki Folkmaster, which are kinda tinny. But I like using them for, obviously, folk, and country. Pretty good bang for the buck. And the Big River is fairly cheap. I've used these a lot and they're pretty solid for the most part, with the occaisional BR having a mistune or a sticky reed.
There are a few cheap harps I've never tried though that I'm curious about trying....
Blues Bender
Hot Metal
Hurricane Hot House
Merano
Soul Man
Swan
Johnson Blues Kings - This one in particular, because a local veteran harp player has said it's the only Chinese-made harp he's ever taken a liking to. Amazon's always running good specials on these in 7 and 12 packs. But I have a couple of Johnson's Jailhouse Blues harps and they suck worse than an industrial strength ShopVac.
If anyone has any thoughts, particularly on the Johnsons, please share.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2011 11:30 AM
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groyster1
1578 posts
Nov 22, 2011
12:34 PM
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@hawkeye
I have bought many johnsons from 4-8 dollars-some play great some have been dogs which is a quality control problem-the good ones dont leak and make a great practice harp-the only one I have played have been the blues king,which are definitely JI tuned,which is what all my harps tuned to-it sounds much better to me than compromise tuning
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Martin
11 posts
Nov 22, 2011
1:59 PM
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The Hot Metal is flat out the worst harp I´ve ever owned. And it wasn´t that cheap either; also it kinda looks like the real thing. Don´t buy it.
A pity about the Huang Silvertones, as I understand it the´re not made anymore. Were great for practice, took a lot of pain, OB´d easily, and didn´t cost that much.
One of my all time best harps is a Hohner Silver Star -- but it´s in E: the higher pitched ones have longer life. Plays perfectly and has withstood many many hours of playing. Cost $9 when I bought it.
The Suzuki Folkmasters I´ve owned have been impressively long lasting. As you say, good bang for the buck.
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HawkeyeKane
464 posts
Nov 22, 2011
2:29 PM
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Martin, I'm pretty positive the Silvertones ARE still made. Two of my local music stores carry them, and they're on amazon.
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Hawkeye Kane
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RT123
249 posts
Nov 22, 2011
2:51 PM
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I'm not sure why the question is being asked. Are you just curious or looking to expand you harp set? Either way, suzuki folkmasters are $15 from rockin Ron or you can get the entire set of 12 keys for $125. Now that's cheap, it's about the cost of 2 hohner crossovers or 2 manjis. I like that's the cheapest playable harp you can get.
But........ Why do you want cheap harps? Do you just need 1 key for a specific song or are you needing a full set? If you need a full set then you are a serious player and should consider the next step up even if cost is an issue. Such as the special 20 or harpmaster.
To sum it up ....... Suzuki folkmaster
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HawkeyeKane
465 posts
Nov 22, 2011
3:03 PM
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I ask mainly because I'm looking for options for an inexpensive, but decent backup harp. I have, and use, Special 20's and Blues Harps. But I blow out an average of one or two harps a month, and I wanna be able to have something to get me through a gig should one blow mid-show. And afterwards, I can repair the blown harp.
For example, the Silvertones have great tone and response for their price, and can be improved upon with a bit of embossing. There's a great backup in case of blowout. And like you say, the Folkmaster is a great harp, but they're a bit tinny for what I do on a gigly basis. (Made that word up just now.)
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Hawkeye Kane
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MJ
322 posts
Nov 22, 2011
3:13 PM
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Boy, your tough on harps Hawkeye. I have a set of Special 20s and a set of Harpmasters that I have been playing out 3 nights a week with for over a year and have yet to "blow one out".
On another note, I have played the Silvertones many years ago and thought they were ok.
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HawkeyeKane
467 posts
Nov 22, 2011
3:17 PM
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Well, it doesn't help that on a typical gig, most of the songs we play require my C, D, G, or A harp, the A being the most used. So, yeah. Those four get their fair share of abuse.
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Hawkeye Kane
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KingoBad
993 posts
Nov 22, 2011
5:59 PM
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That does seem like very excessive breakage...
You need a whoopin' by BBQ Bob...
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Danny
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2chops
53 posts
Nov 22, 2011
6:44 PM
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Hawkeye, I have a bunch of Huang Star Performers that were given to me last year. I use them mainly for "lunch box" harps. 3 of them were "C" harps, 1 of which is actually pretty decent. I had one in "A" that was my main harp for that key cause I liked it's response, sound and it had decent tone. However, some dirt bag broke into my jeep & stole it & a couple of SP20's a month ago. I have a Silvertone Delux in "A" that ain't bad. But it rattles at times when I hit the 1&2 draw. The Star Performers in "D" are not too bad either. Though not as god as the SP20's. One thing I will say about the Star performers is that they're durrable.
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Piro39
12 posts
Nov 22, 2011
6:56 PM
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I am impressed with Huang Star performers. I bought a batch of them about 16 years ago and they seem to have held up over the years. They sound very good and are very responsive. They are not in my main set of harps and I think I've been prejudiced against them over the years because of the Marine Band Snobs but I really like them. Now what we need is for some of our comb makers out there to include this model and I'm sure that we would have an inexpensive winner. Hohner has truly gone insane with their prices. I remember Marine Band costing in the vicinity of 50 cents in the early 50's slowly going up to $1.50 in the early 60's and now the MSRP is close to $50.00. This is real madness but we are addicts and need our new harmonica fix. I probably have over 100 diatonics and twenty five chromatics.
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rbeetsme
470 posts
Nov 22, 2011
7:13 PM
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I was one of the judges for a large bluesfest about 10 years ago. A big Swedish guy got up, played a spirited Little Walter tune and then started playing rock n' roll, finished by throwing the harp into the ground and stomped off. A kid ran up and took the harp. Big response from the crowd. Hope it was a cheap harp! Oh yeah, he didn't win.
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Jim Rumbaugh
609 posts
Nov 22, 2011
7:32 PM
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Cool, now I wanna stomp on a harp........
I never got to smash a guitar.......
I could do a harp
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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ricanefan
119 posts
Nov 22, 2011
9:20 PM
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When my kids were very young I bought them a set of Meranos because they came in multiple colors. Utter crap. Tinny, leaky, didn't sound anywhere near in tune...
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OzarkRich
481 posts
Nov 22, 2011
9:28 PM
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While I don't care for the shape of the coverplates, Big Rivers are the best of the cheap harps. They're durable and don't need much tweaking.
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Ozark Rich
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Blown Out Reed
261 posts
Nov 22, 2011
9:41 PM
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"C" Frank
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STME58
17 posts
Nov 22, 2011
10:55 PM
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I bought a couple of 24 hole Apollo tremolos the last time I was in Shenzen for abut 25 yuan (about $4)each. They feel cheep but sound ok and arn't too hard to play. I don't have a good tremello to compare them with though.
I read that the 24 hole tremolo is the most common type of harp in China and the diatonic is somewhat rare. I could not find a diatonic in any of the music stores I visted.
I did pick up some Dizi, Bawu and a Hulsi though, all interesting insturments. Easy to play but hard to master. The Bawu is quite interesting. It has one reed, cut out of a plate of brass in a recorder like body with a plenum so the emboucher is taken out of the equation. Notes bend quite easily with fingering technique. Like the harp they are not chromatic so you need a set to play in different keys.
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Aussiesucker
948 posts
Nov 22, 2011
11:16 PM
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I like my little Suzuki Folkmaster in Ab. Its always with me. It takes a hiding with a mouthful of beer and crisps & I stick it under the tap & its like new. At the price I thought I need such a harp that I don't have to clean my teeth & rinse my mouth out before use ie if I kill it I haven't lost $$$s. But I can't kill it as its stronger & sweeter than ever after at least 2 years abuse. I tried cheap Hohner Stars and the Hohner Big Rivers & just found them way too leaky.
The little Suzuki Folkmaster is not the best harp but it is tight has a sweet tone & is robust. It is also not loud so at times for a bit of quiet practice out it comes. It's also a great size eg exactly the same as a Marine Band.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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Steamrollin Stan
190 posts
Nov 23, 2011
1:13 AM
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@ Aussie, i might buy one of these, i have heard good reviews like yours, i just lost interest in Suzuki's as most of my expensive mr350's are stuffed, but my sp20's hang in just ok.
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Aussiesucker
949 posts
Nov 23, 2011
1:22 AM
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Steamrollin Stan> I have found the lower keys are ok. Not to my liking in c or higher. The Folkmaster is very definitely a decent harp very well constructed, laser tuned reeds and held together with 7 screws in the plates. They have tinny looking coverplates but I open mine up at the back which does make it louder. Not my harp of choice unless I am going to be giving them some abuse. They can take it.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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HawkeyeKane
470 posts
Nov 23, 2011
7:04 AM
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You wanna know something weird. A couple years ago, I found a small plastic harmonica that came in a Fisher Price music set my aunt gave me when I was two or three years old. It was astounding! This little piece of red plastic with a comb had perfect pitch! Wasn't very loud, but it still amazed me. Fisher Price made really cool stuff in the 80's, including harmonicas!
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Hawkeye Kane
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clyde
165 posts
Nov 23, 2011
8:56 AM
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i guess it's just me but at twenty five bucks a pop i don't consider the big river a "cheap" harp any more
at about $15.00 the folkmaster is a good little harp
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2011 9:00 AM
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HawkeyeKane
471 posts
Nov 23, 2011
9:28 AM
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@clyde
25 is cheap compared to a 40 dollar SP20 or a 60 dollar Manji.
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Hawkeye Kane
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OzarkRich
482 posts
Nov 23, 2011
9:48 AM
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@Clyde: perhaps "best bargain" would sum it up better. I've been mostly buying Crossovers lately and Big Rivers for knock-around/back-ups.
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Ozark Rich
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nacoran
4966 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:02 AM
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HawkeyeKane, if you look around you can usually find SP20's for about $30. I haven't tried it yet, but I have a friend who swears if you are a good customer some of the local music shops will cut you deals on top of that. (Actually, when I got my last set of headphones I went to the local music shop. They had a set of promotional headphones for sale. I guess people were going with the 'name brands' so they cut me a deal on the promotional ones. They listed for $100 and I got them for $40. I'm surprised they weren't moving. They were much better quality than the other ones, and they were actually name brand, just not headphone name brand. I love my Marshall headphone!) I know the shops haggle all the time on used equipment.
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Nate
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clyde
166 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:14 AM
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hawk
i was meaning cheap compared to other harmonicas ... i think all harmonicas are cheap compared to other instruments.
easy to find special 20's for $26.95 on line. many of the stores in the area will match best online price so how cheap does the big river sound compared to the 20 now.
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clyde
167 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:18 AM
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ozark,
i don't know....i just don't think the big river should be lumped in with the johnson, kay, american ace, huang or most of the harps made in china.
clyde
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groyster1
1581 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:30 AM
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@clyde
my best johnson blues king are much more air tight than the big rivers I have they do have good volume but are just too airy-I think sp20s are as tight as any harp out there never played a leaky one ootb
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HawkeyeKane
472 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:51 AM
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@Nate
There's only one music store here in my town that'll do something like that, and he only does it for a VERY FEW select clients. I'm talking like maybe 10 people at the most, and he's got the biggest music outlet in about a 90 mile radius. A couple years ago, I went in there looking to try out an Oskar, and he was the only guy in town who carried them. At the time, they were usually retailing for about 30 bucks. He tried to charge me $52. I haven't set foot in there since. Only one other store keeps a regular stock of good harps, and he only carries SP20's for $40, Blues Harps for $45 and Big Rivers for $26. He also carries MS plates and Silvertones though. Hence my main reason for going through Rockin Ron when I'm not in a pinch. Just can't beat his prices and free domestic shipping.
EDIT: I should note that the prices on those three Hohners are with tax included.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2011 12:00 PM
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clyde
168 posts
Nov 23, 2011
12:02 PM
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groyster,
i have never had a leaky 20 ootb either...the only leaky big river i had was the G (it's better now).
i have had several johnsons to carry in the truck and a couple were ok but most were out of tune.
had a folkmaster in C a few years ago and really liked it (blew out the five draw read) but i've done that on several seydel's as well.
i guy gave me a kay in G one day.....talk about a leak horse...
i bought a hohner at the cracker barrel for one of the grandkids ... can't remeber the model...about like a johnson.
that's really all the cheap harps i've had counting the big rivers. i still say for $15.00 bucks yo can't beat the folkmaster.
i have several gm's, mb's, seydel's and lee oskar's.....i guess i play l.o.'s the most.
i will say this about the big river harp....they are one tuff harp and will take a lot of hard playing.
oh yeh i forgot the special twenty with and without turbo lids.
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2011 12:04 PM
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groyster1
1583 posts
Nov 23, 2011
12:33 PM
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I have 1 folkmaster I bought on Ebay for a very low price and its a bargain suzukis are strong harps
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HawkeyeKane
474 posts
Nov 23, 2011
2:37 PM
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Has anyone used a Swan? Seems like a while back I read someone's post about one and it was positive.
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Hawkeye Kane
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MrVerylongusername
2080 posts
Nov 23, 2011
2:44 PM
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Does anyone have any beef jerky?
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chromaticblues
1070 posts
Nov 23, 2011
3:02 PM
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I think the SP-20 is the best "cheaper" harp. Anything less than that isn't worth the time IMHO!
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MP
1888 posts
Nov 23, 2011
4:36 PM
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@ Hawkeye,
not that it matters much but Buffalo played Star Performers, not Silvertones.
the Star Performers have a GM shape and as i recall they out performed the Silvertones everytime.
in the bad old days for Hohner i'd occaisionally buy a Star in C and see how long it took before i'd fry the 4 blow. (thin brass). i was amused at how they labled the keys. Bb was bB foe example.
i agree with chromaticblues, the cheapest harp i'll even consider buying is the SP/20. since i keep repairing harps i don't need to buy any but if i did, hands down on the 20. i do have a MS PRO i tweaked six ways to sunday but i never use it. not my cup of..er, pint of beer.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Martin
12 posts
Nov 24, 2011
5:28 AM
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It´s interesting that people have to ASK why you need cheap harps. It´s the economy, --!
With limited funds -- a condition not unknown to the majority of earthlings -- and the harmonica not being a perpetuum mobile you don´t have to be extremely clever to see that there´s an interest for cheaper options (for practice, say) for those of us who, like Hawkeye, blow them out at a terrifying rate.
When I started playing, the price of a Hohner was equivalent to the price of a set of guitar strings. Not so anymore. (Unless you´re a really, really demanding guitar string customer ...) This increase in the prices of harmonicas do not correspond to an increase in quality, in my experience.
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HawkeyeKane
475 posts
Nov 24, 2011
8:13 AM
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Martin pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm a bank teller by day, and while one might think an employee of a financial institution might be rolling in dough, I'm really still just a blue collar member of the workforce who just happens to dress in a shirt and tie everyday. (When I first started the job, the thousands of dollars that passes through your hands every day was somewhat taunting, but that wears off after awhile.)
But I digress. Basically, I'm a very budgeted guy. With a wife going to school, an 18-month-old boy in daycare, a mortgage, etc...
Hohner leading the pack on the outrageous price hikes that have jumped almost $20 since I was a junior in high school (9 years ago), it's kinda become necessary for a guy like me to seek out all options. I'm not saying that cheap harps are necessarily good harps, but some are beter than others and can be quite decent with a little work.
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Hawkeye Kane
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MrVerylongusername
2083 posts
Nov 24, 2011
2:38 PM
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Instead of cheap - why not try longer lasting?
I have some gigging Lee Oskars which are well over 5 years old. If ET isn't your thing, you could always retune. If you haven't tried a Lee Oskar in a few years, you might be surprised - I think they are getting even better.
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rbeetsme
475 posts
Nov 24, 2011
3:04 PM
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I've been buying NOS Marine Bands for as little as 10.00 a piece. Some are decent players, others need a little help. I have to agree with BBQ Bob, the pre-wars all seem to be great players. Of course, my plan was to send them off to the customizer, and I have sent half a dozen or so.
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groyster1
1587 posts
Nov 24, 2011
5:06 PM
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hello aussie
I have 1 suzuki folkmaster that I bought on ebay for next to nothing-I carry it in my coat pocket and pull it out all the time it does flop in the case but as you say its a tough little harp
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nacoran
4976 posts
Nov 24, 2011
6:12 PM
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At least one round of price hikes weren't profit taking. I remember an article commenting that Hohner prices were going up because the weakness of the dollar. Maybe the European economic collapse will bring harmonica price relief. :(
I've tried a few of Hohner's cheap harps. The Bluesbands, the Old Standby and the Pocket Pal seem to be the same harp with different coverplate stampings. You pay more for one because it comes with a better carrying case. In that contest the Piedmont is the hands down winner though. I carry my harps around in a couple Piedmont cases.
The Piedmont's seem to be the same harp as the other cheapies only with plastic covers that mute the sound. They are much more comfortable to play and they look pretty nice, especially the first day before the gold paint wears off. In a dark room after a couple weeks you can't read the key anymore and for the first few days they taste horrible (my guess is it's the gold paint coming off in your mouth. The taste goes away about the same time as the paint.) Their covers are way more comfortable than Bluesbands. The plastic covers slide across the lips beautifully.
I wish they'd experiment with coating a metal cover with plastic (I assume the muting effect comes from the inside of the soft plastic cover and the fairly closed backs.) They covers also, aside from the paint, show their wear and tear a lot less than the other cheap harp covers that get all scratched up.
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Nate
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HawkeyeKane
477 posts
Nov 25, 2011
7:57 AM
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@MVLUN
Just like Folkmasters, I find Lee Oskars to be pretty tinny. That can be good sometimes, but not for what I do regularly. And tuning really isn't the issue. It's just a matter of song key selection, and the manner in which I play to fit the song. Yes, I know....BBQ Bob would probably slap me up-side the head for the way I play. I AM getting better about that habit, but the problem is a lot of the songs we play, I actually play to fill an organ, squeeze-box, or even a guitar part. So the air movement can get pretty intense.
@Nate
Agreed on the Piedmont case. I carry my hero harps in a Piedmont case and a LoDuca case of the same design. Very safe and sound little cases.
@MP
Huh....weird. I've read things that say he used Silvertones and others that say he used Stars. But now that you mention it, it does make more sense that he'd use a GM type of harp.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2011 12:36 PM
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Jagrowler
60 posts
Nov 26, 2011
12:28 AM
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Aussiesucker raises an interesting point regards 'cheap' harps, namely the key - I find most harps are best in the lower keys, and this especially applies to the more budget models.
I also have found Suzuki Folkmasters to be pretty good, and more than adequate for my standard of playing.
If I ever get the time, I might buy a complete set of Swan harps (or similar price) from EBay and see if I can tweak them to get a working set. When I fail (my technician skills are only average) I can complain to you guys and we can start the cheap harp thread all over again!
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wheezer
205 posts
Nov 26, 2011
1:20 AM
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I've tried lots of cheap harps over the years and the one that stands out for me is the Hering Free Blues.
I have an F and a D both of which were given to me as knackered. I changed a couple of reeds and did a set up on them and for cheap harps they play really well.
I think Hering have now deleted them from their range
but if you are in the U.K. Eagle Music are advertising
a boxed set of 6 (C,D,E,F,G,A) for £45.
http://youtu.be/W6AU2HlV7nI
http://youtu.be/vhlVhT2H6pE
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wheezer
206 posts
Nov 26, 2011
1:21 AM
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I've tried lots of cheap harps over the years and the one that stands out for me is the Hering Free Blues.
I have an F and a D both of which were given to me as knackered. I changed a couple of reeds and did a set up on them and for cheap harps they play really well.
I think Hering have now deleted them from their range
but if you are in the U.K. Eagle Music are advertising
a boxed set of 6 (C,D,E,F,G,A) for £45.
http://youtu.be/W6AU2HlV7nI
http://youtu.be/vhlVhT2H6pE
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nacoran
4991 posts
Nov 26, 2011
12:17 PM
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I once bought a Melissa and Doug tremolo harmonica at an ice cream shop. I suspect M&D's best harp is worse than the worst of these cheap harps, and I suspect that if they had any quality control this harp would have been pulled even by their quality expert. What a dog. But, I only bought it to see the guts of a tremolo. I think it has an aluminum reed plate (it's different material than the reeds). The cover plates are silver plastic, but not even real silver, just a spray on finish that wears off.
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Nate
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LittleBubba
121 posts
Nov 26, 2011
12:56 PM
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I know this discussion is about cheap harps, but I agree that the best way to lower your cost per harp is to quit blowing them up. This may happen naturally as you progress in your skills.
I used to blow up harps (I've been playing since 1967 )but these days I might blow up one or two/yr., if that.
Sans BBQBob, I'll say that I'd look at reducing the force and checking the saliva output.
I play all the time ( including a 4 hour gig once weekly) , and even play occasional acoustic jams which can require more force, but I've learned to be judicious in those scenarios.
Personally, I've never seen a place for cheap harps.
If a cheap harp lasts half as long as a decent one, you might not be saving any $$.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2011 12:58 PM
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Reverend Jimmie Jive
8 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:30 PM
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I have American Aces, Old Standbys and Hot Metals I have had for years and liked them then and still do.. they have lasted me,, they sound fine, bend well.. generally satisfactory..
I also have Firebreaths and other Suzukis, Hering 1846 (or whatever they are called) Souls Voices (my favorite for the JI tuning) Delta Frost, (the best out of the box benders imho) Marine Bands. new and prewar.. .Oskars (the most durable imho) just about everything, including a couple customs..
maybe I am just
blissfully iggorant.. but the Aces, Standbys and Hot Metals work fine and sound OK ... to me... I would just as soon blow one in public as anything in my box
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colman
108 posts
Nov 27, 2011
4:24 AM
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when i started playing harps ,1968, MB ,they were $3. about the same as guitar strings.They have grown in cost compared to guit. strings kind of like a bottle of whiskey and a case of ale... $10/whiskey -$30/ale...30 yrs. ago they were about the same ???
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BronzeWailer
330 posts
Nov 27, 2011
4:32 AM
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I bought a couple of Meistehaft harps in South America for around $10 each this June. They are made in Germany and look a lot like SP20s, but there the resemblance ends. Definitely not a must have.
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