Halffast
56 posts
Feb 21, 2017
5:30 AM
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I use an Akai DM13 mic that I've modified with a volume control and a plastic wire tie/loop taped to the grille end . By slipping my little finger through the loop ( on " top" of the mic ) , my harmonica is held at an ideal distance from the mic's grille when cupped , and there is the added bonus that I can let the mic dangle from the loop when not playing without worrying about dropping it .Very comfortable arrangement . The only problem I have is that it is difficult for me to get a really good wah sound with this setup . I get a decent wah when just playing the harp into a mic on a stand . When cupping my DM13 and the harp together , I can't seem to get the tone or volume , doing the hand motion to get the wah . Any ideas on how to remedy this ?
Last Edited by Halffast on Feb 22, 2017 5:54 AM
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MindTheGap
2151 posts
Feb 21, 2017
7:16 AM
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It's not the same flavour of wah cupping vs playing acoustic into a mic is it? With cupping it's more going between that soft closed sound and hard open sound I think?
So if you are talking about the difference in timbre/volume you can get closed-to-open cup, that does vary between mics. I always thought the DM13 was OK in that respect.
But it's all relative - do you have a sample?
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SuperBee
4531 posts
Feb 21, 2017
12:09 PM
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I had this 'problem' a long time, then I saw Jason Ricci demonstrate how he holds his mic and I realised I'd been holding the end of the mic up too close to the harp. Leave a good-size space between mic and harp, then when you open the hands it's a very noticeable effect
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Halffast
57 posts
Feb 22, 2017
5:52 AM
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My hands are on the small side and that's why I use a stick mic in the first place . A Green Bullet is just too big and cumbersome to work well for me . By using the loop on my little finger , the DM13 is about as far back in my cupped hands as it can go . Seems like the mic to harp gap is fairly good ( and consistent ) like this but I just don't get great results from changes in hand positioning . Can get a deeper sound by really closing the cupping up as tight as possible . Maybe this is as much as I'll be able to do with this setup and physical attributes ? Don't know how to get a video/audio sample on here . Guess I'm computer challenged too ? :)
Last Edited by Halffast on Feb 22, 2017 5:57 AM
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MindTheGap
2158 posts
Feb 22, 2017
10:32 AM
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As I say, I found different mics give a different range of changes, so it may be you're getting the full range. I think the DM-13 doesn't do as much as an SM57, which does loads. Jason Ricci's demo is on an SM57.
You can also angle the harp into your cheek, that can give a bit more.
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SuperBee
4533 posts
Feb 22, 2017
12:42 PM
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The proximity effect I guess. I went looking for that video but he seems to have removed/delisted it.
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MindTheGap
2159 posts
Feb 22, 2017
1:06 PM
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SuperBee, I'm feeling a bit frustrated about the use of physics and engineering terms on MBH at the moment :) (see other threads!) so don't take this the wrong way but no it's not the proximity effect - that's a specific thing caused by uni-directional mics in specific circumstances.
The big signal increase, and bass increase, from cupping is another of those happy accidents we get in harp-land. I guess people like Greg H are now actually designing that feature into their new mics.
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SuperBee
4534 posts
Feb 22, 2017
4:51 PM
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Haha, I thought I'd likely get a rise from you at that.
So, what is the reason a sm57 will respond more markedly to an attempted cupped Wah than an akai dm13 ?
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indigo
325 posts
Feb 22, 2017
7:53 PM
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I have an Akai DM13 and an Akai DM8.They are both great mikes for harp'
The 13s' element is about 30mm (1") diameter.
I can definitely get some good 'wah' etc sounds from cupping it.
The 8s' diameter is about 15mm and using exactly the same cup as the above i can get bloody wonderful wahs etc to the extent i can playing acoustic harp.
You know like when you have a tight cup and just lifting one finger changes the sound.
So is it the size of the element ,or at least is that part of the equation?
Last Edited by indigo on Feb 22, 2017 7:54 PM
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SuperBee
4535 posts
Feb 22, 2017
8:12 PM
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i have no idea. ive never used an akai mic, but i'm satisfied with the wahs i get from my crystal JT30 and my shure-element bullets. i have a 58 but i doubt ive really tried that. i mean since i cottoned on to that thing about holding the air between mic and harp, i have always felt satisfied with my attempts to us the effect so i have really kept track of whether one mic was better than another.
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MindTheGap
2160 posts
Feb 22, 2017
11:14 PM
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SuperBee, thank you so much! :) You could have only done a better job by saying it was caused by resonance, but not just any old resonance, but Helmholtz resonance, the resonance of kings!
My thinking is that the amount of wah is less to do with the element (in stick mics), and a lot to do with housing. There's the old trick of taking the 'ball' off an SM58 or similar mic, and it responds quite differently to cupping.
In mic design, the configuration of the housing is an essential part of shaping both the frequency response and the directional characteristics, so they do vary from mic to mic. It's not just for cosmetic looks.
This is also very much a guess, but I've always thought that the large-diameter elements in the old bullet mics might respond so well to cupping specifically because of the big surface area involved. That the physical force (not the vibration) of air when you cup it has a strong effect on how the element moves. Force is pressure x area so you'd think the big elements would be affected more. I've read of people sucking the diaphragm right off the pin (so they say). More research needed.
The only big bullet mic I have is that superlux, but it's a small element in a big body, so I can't tell from that.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 23, 2017 2:15 AM
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