SuperBee
4332 posts
Dec 11, 2016
4:52 AM
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Today I had a gig with lots of annoying little problems.
First, I was getting intermittent output from my rig.
I thought it was the mic so I changed mics. Same. So I changed leads. Same. So I checked my pedals, took them out of the line. Same. Pulled preamp tube and reset all tubes thinking maybe they'd shaken loose on the journey. Same.
Plugged in to original setup but with just one pedal and ran on battery rather than power supply and had to just go with it as set was starting. LeAder seemed unaware of my issue and I thought if it's too bad I'll just play the PA.
Got through the set ok but I could tell it was tenuous so in the break I went to a 3rd lead and changed to my crystal mic.
2nd set, no problem except I no longer had a PA monitor...unrelated issue but gave me something else to worry about as I was singing.
3rd set, had my monitor back and no problem except my old unfaithful D harp choked up in the 1 chamber mid song. I always have 2 backups for that key so only a brief problem...but then right at the end, in the encore in fact, my rig starts cutting out again...clearly a lead at fault. I played with a finger holding the lead 'just so' and got through,
So, a broken harp, 3 dodgy leads and a dodgy mic. I have some work to do, but we have another gig lined up with venue and seems likely we will have several more over summer.
But the title: crystal mic.
I used it for 2 out of three sets. Usually I don't gig with it, because I just go with my preferred small shell shure. Today though, circumstances sent me there and I'm here to say that it was kind of a silver lining in an otherwise fairly ordinary day for gear.
I kind of already had an inkling but now I'm convinced. A good crystal mic is a wonderful thing. I get it. For years I've thought it strange people would shell out the big bucks for such delicate unreliable things when there was such s solid alternative available in the old shure magnetic elements. I think I probably just couldn't play well enough before to understand the difference, (and it may help that I replaced the old weak element with a genuine NOS mc151?)
So now I have a new favourite mic. It's my least favourite shell: a jt30 style, probably roadhouse, that's been powder coated a weird maroon-ish colour and a volume control mounted behind the connector. But it's just a great sounding thing. The drag is, I don't have a backup. And I'm gonna feel really sad when it goes bad.
This is what Ricci talked about when he explained his all modern gear rig; he doesn't want to rely on a piece of special gear which can't be easily replaced.
Dagnabbit!
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MindTheGap
1941 posts
Dec 11, 2016
10:04 AM
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Oh dear, and oh good!
I'm with Mr Ricci on this. Relying on a special, magical bit of kit surely must be recipe for disappointment somewhere down the line!
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LSB
238 posts
Dec 11, 2016
10:52 AM
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Crystal Mics, yeah, good stuff. And you haven't really lived until you've played through a very strong original Shure Crystal, but man, the prices now.......
Some of the Astatic Crystals are very very nice too, and less expensive. Buying used crystals is a total crapshoot though, unless you pay a premium to get something from Dennis Gruenling, which is guaranteed to be very strong and good sounding. But he won't sell just elements, gotta buy a whole mic from him and by the time you pay that kind of price, you aren't going to want to take that mic to gigs, because one drop on a hard floor and Poof, hundreds of dollars gone.
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bublnsqueak
69 posts
Dec 11, 2016
12:59 PM
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I have bought a lot of vintage / old mics mostly from fleabay. My ear is still developing but I think I like whatever it is that crystal elements do.
Left one in the sun for a few days and it died.
Am I right in understanding that ceramic elements do what crystals do but are more robust?
Paul
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SuperBee
4335 posts
Dec 11, 2016
1:04 PM
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I believe they have a different tonal signature but respond dynamically the same way. As to whether they are more robust, I've heard that but I've also heard they are still quite vulnerable to shock and heat. Maybe more resistant to moisture.
Recently heard of someone repairing broken crystal elements though. It depends on how they are broken I think
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SuperBee
4336 posts
Dec 11, 2016
3:59 PM
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This might be completely wrong, but the major inherent difference between playing a dynamic mic and a crystal seems to be in the way they respond dynamically. The moving magnet type mic has a range of motion and when it hits the ends of the range, that's it. It distorts and gives no more volume, just more distortion. But the crystal seems to keep responding by getting louder without totally breaking up. Of course there would also be a limit to that but it seems to be beyond the normal range of playing.
I dunno really. Maybe someone can steer me right about this
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Killa_Hertz
1994 posts
Dec 11, 2016
4:39 PM
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Man that sucks about the gear giving you issues like that. Must be a bear trying to wrestle your gear and perform at the same time.
As far as crystals, i haven't had the pleasure yet. I sort of thought along the same lines you did. Why spend all that money for something so fragile? But now you have really got me wanting to try one. But with my current skills, it might be wasted on me. Idk.
I did hear of someone repairing them. I wonder if they are the same after repair.
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SuperBee
4337 posts
Dec 11, 2016
7:05 PM
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Yeah I think I have to start looking for a spare. I'd hate to drop $300-$400 on a mic and have it DOA from damage in transit.
One thing I have noticed and I think it's a real thing is that the mic sounds better when I plug it through my LW harp octave pedal, which I put down to the high impedance in that circuit, even when it's in bypass.
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The Patron Saints
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SuperBee
4338 posts
Dec 11, 2016
7:13 PM
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Just testing my link to our new website
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The Patron Saints
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MindTheGap
1943 posts
Dec 11, 2016
11:40 PM
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I've not tried one, but if I did I'd have to convince myself that the effect isn't just down to the higher signal output from the element.
Re it sounding better with the pedal in bypass, I can believe that as it makes sense technically that the crystal element will be sensitive to the load impedance.
That said, the Lone Wolf says that pedal has 'True Bypass' which I used to take to mean that the pedal footswitch simply, electrically bypasses all the pedal electronics totally. In which case your mic would see the amp's input load as if it were plugged in directly.
But these days I'm not so sure and it might mean that the pedal still buffers the signal electronically. If you are hearing a difference when using the pedal 'off' and going straight to the amp, it suggests that's the case. I think it would be a good thing, and reduce the effect of 'it sounds different with different amps'.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 11, 2016 11:51 PM
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SuperBee
4339 posts
Dec 12, 2016
1:23 AM
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Re the signal, well maybe that's just what is going on; a larger dynamic range. I had my octave pedal set to give me a volume boost for solos but I found that I could get a remarkable range of volume and tonal(?) variation through a combination of mic handling and breath control/embouchure techniques, even to the point I could still be quite prominent in the mix without my pedal if I wanted.
I should mention this was quite a fun gig where I stepped outside a lot of my 'learned' solos and comping so I was having a lot of fun playing with texture and volume.
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The Patron Saints
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Killa_Hertz
1995 posts
Dec 12, 2016
5:29 AM
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Re your last post Bee.
Thats great. Thats exactly what people mean when they say Good Gear can make you play better. When you have quality gear and you just love the sound your getting, it can really charge you up and boost you to your 100% ability. I love that feeling.
True Bypass. .. mtg i thought the same. That true bypass was supposed to remove the circuit entirely. But i have seen older vintage pedals without, true bypass, that when you click them off it only stops the effect from continuing to work, but doesnt stop what is already in motion. Meaning that, if it were a delay pedal ... play a note and it will repeat as it should, but if you click it off mid repeat it will not immediately go back to dry signal. The note played while the effect was on will continue until it fades out and the notes played after turned off will be dry.
Anyhow im glad you found some gear your living bee. How about making some demos
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MindTheGap
1945 posts
Dec 12, 2016
6:37 AM
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Killa - yes with the delay pedal it's not clear that you always want 'True Bypass' for the reason you say. It think they call it 'Trails', when you switch off the effect but it keeps the existing echoes going.
There's also an in-between kind of bypass, where the electronics is still on but the output is switched between the straight through signal and the effects signal.
In this case I think False Bypass would be best, as Superbee's super-hi-Z crystal mic would then always be loaded very lightly with the nice 10Mohm LW input stage. Thus passing on the full frequency signal, at full voltage, to the amp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 12, 2016 6:42 AM
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SuperBee
4340 posts
Dec 12, 2016
1:35 PM
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I think I've read contradictory info about the LW pedals on just that point.
My testing consisted of plugging in and seeing (hearing!) if I could detect a difference.
I believed I could.
But- only with the Harp Octave did I think I noticed the fuller response with the pedal switched off. So I plug that pedal in with the crystal even if I don't mean to use the effect. I used to love that pedal but grew tired of the effect and stopped using it. I did use it quite a bit on Sunday but I also spent a lot of time with it off because I really want to be able to access the sweeter tones and the 'octave' effect does tend to make everything somewhat on the 'gritty' side. Probably a different thread though.
While on the subject of being off topic, I fixed my D harp just now. Beard whisker got in through side vent and chamber 1 blow reed slot.
Great demo of how bending works.
When I realised there was a problem I was going for a deep draw 1 bend and I got nothing. Later I tried draw 1 and it was fine so I figured the blockage had cleared, but then I found blow 1 wouldn't play. Today I investigated and found that was correct. Blow 1 jammed, draw 1 no problem until attempting a bend, then it just stalled. Whisker was actually protruding through the vent and I just pulled it out. Voila!
No time to notice that mid-song though, so very glad to have a backup close to hand.
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The Patron Saints
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SuperBee
4349 posts
Dec 13, 2016
12:53 PM
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The LW site says thdbpedal is true bypass and has a buffered input. I think they are mutually exclusive conditions, but it may come down to exactly what the person who wrote the copy thinks they are saying rather than what most others understand those terms to mean. I'll just ask Nathan.
Oh, by the way, since I put a link in my signature I lose many many more posts to the spam filter. It's not a good idea.
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The Patron Saints
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MindTheGap
1948 posts
Dec 13, 2016
2:52 PM
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'True Bypass' is supposed be unambiguous. But maybe people won't buy a pedal unless it says 'True Bypass' these days so maybe they want to be able to use the phrase. I'd sooner have a buffered input, that's always buffering.
Like 'analog delay' these days is normally a digital delay but with a filter that works on the echoes. And a good thing too - the old real analogue delays are noisier, more expensive and have shorter delay times.
Interesting to see what Nathan says.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 13, 2016 2:53 PM
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SuperBee
4357 posts
Dec 14, 2016
1:18 PM
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Nathan says im deluded. So thats a pill i have to swallow. He says the bypass is true and my ears also appear to have just straight wire between them.
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MindTheGap
1956 posts
Dec 14, 2016
3:11 PM
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:) Thanks for getting a definitive answer though.
I found trying to unpick what's going on in the mic-pedal-amp train pretty difficult. A lot of subjectivity involved.
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SuperBee
4358 posts
Dec 14, 2016
9:32 PM
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My new idea is to set up one of the inputs on my amp for crystal mics. I 2 inputs, Lo gain and hi gain. I could set one up for dynamics and the other for crystals. Should be easy enough
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