SuperBee
4289 posts
Nov 21, 2016
3:52 AM
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I'm just watching a q&a with Denis Gruenling on FB.
Q: tips on bending, practicing bending, tongue block bends
A: Denis said beginning players often make a mistake in trying to 'nail' the half steps before they can really play all the bends. He explained what he meant is that you can't really judge the bends until you have control of the process, so practice long drawn out bends, very slowly, all the way down, all the way up, until you can do it painfully slowly without losing breath, and control very slow movements, then you will develop the muscle control it takes to hit those notes precisely. Then you can start practicing them "with a tuner; not by ear, and not with a piano. With a tuner."
This is very similar to the method Jimi Lee used when I had lessons with him. to teach me. It really did work for me.
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Harmlessonica
255 posts
Nov 22, 2016
4:03 PM
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Great advice.
Tomlin Leckie recently posted a lesson encouraging a similar approach.
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Last Edited by Harmlessonica on Nov 22, 2016 4:06 PM
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Fil
221 posts
Nov 22, 2016
4:37 PM
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I've put maybe half an hour into this since seeing your post, SB. I'm using Bendometer, A and C harps so far. Without doubt, half an hour is a drop in the ocean, but I can see the potential. I's now a part of my practice warm-up. Thanks.
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Phil Pennington
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Sundancer
64 posts
Nov 23, 2016
1:11 PM
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This is a genius - and ego deflating- exercise. I was starting to feel I really had my 2 and 3 draw bends under control, but this shows me how I can work to truly master them - Great suggestion SuperBee - thanks!
Last Edited by Sundancer on Nov 23, 2016 2:17 PM
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MindTheGap
1895 posts
Nov 24, 2016
2:03 AM
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I do think it is the way. Sundancer, if you want to cheer yourself up again try practising on a high harp like an F for a while, then move on a low harp like A or G and see the improvement.
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Harmlessonica
256 posts
Nov 24, 2016
6:13 AM
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I've always found the lower keys are easier to bend as you don't need such fine motor skills/muscle memory to get the whole range of bending.
So I would advise learning to master the key you find easiest, then go up/down as appropriate.
That's just my opinion though, try whatever might work for yourself.
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SuperBee
4299 posts
Nov 24, 2016
1:23 PM
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We worked with an A harp.
For about 12 months my practice was dominated by playing an A harp. Later we used a low F. I could not play the low bends on a low f at the start.
The practice Denis was describing is about developing control of the process, so this will apply to any key but I think best to use a relatively low key to get the range. You have to be able to actually get the bend right down to the floor though, so no point using a low harp if you can't actually get the bend in hole 1 down at least 40 cents below the semitone bend. Most should be able to do that with an A harp. Aim for 50 cents flat.
One of the reasons to work with a tuner is so you can see how you can play the draw bend way flat. And observe the fluctuations, take out the guesswork. Eventually you will let the note rise from the bottom of the bend, stop it at the 3"' (say) let it rise 20 cents, and bring it back down steady on the note, draw it down below the note and then bring it back to steady on the note again. Working with the tuner is about the targets more than the actual notes, it seem to me. This develops the control you need to make those fine adjustments when playing to match the music you hear. But it's about developing control at this stage. Of course you do need to train your ears to be able to actually 'play' but that's not what this practice is about. This is about learning to bend and be totally in control physically.
There are a bunch of specific exercises to do later but that is precisely DG's point. Learn to crawl, develop coordination and strength, get control of the musculature and understanding of how it works on the same kind of intuitive level as you use to do other physical activities such as swallowing or walking etc. things you don't even think about. Once you have that, then you can work on precision and it's much easier because you aren't struggling with the physical aspects.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 24, 2016 1:51 PM
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MindTheGap
1896 posts
Nov 24, 2016
11:55 PM
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What I'm suggesting is that, even if your target harp is an A, to also practice on a higher key harp, which is harder to control. Then go back to the A.
That's what I found worked for me, anyhow. If I have trouble on a D, then practice on an F, and it improves the D.
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Harmlessonica
257 posts
Nov 25, 2016
7:04 AM
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Wow, SuperBee - that kind of practice regime sounds really gruen-lling.
...yeah, I went there. :)
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SuperBee
4303 posts
Nov 25, 2016
1:23 PM
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Now I am groanling
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SuperBee
4304 posts
Nov 25, 2016
1:34 PM
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And seriously...5 minutes a day.
But like every day or 4 out of 5 days.
You could do it a couple times a day but don't try and do like an hour or something. That will drive you nuts and you will stop doing it.
It'll probably take a couple of weeks before you notice you are really feeling a lot more in control.
When you feel that exercise of top to bottom and back is working and you can do it on holes 123 and get right down and back up over the course of say 30 seconds and you watch the needle of the tuner and it's not got any spots where you go quiet...you should be controlling the volume to be even throughout...and if you do have quiet spots go back and work through them...
When that's peachy, then it's time to start working on controlling the steps.
This is not to say it's the only playing you do, the only bending you do. Just do this exercise for s few minutes every day
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Fil
265 posts
Jan 20, 2017
5:02 PM
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Bee,
I've continued on with this practice. It's been the first 5-7 minutes of each session (followed by vibrato work for about the same duration). I have to say, it's made a huge difference. I'm not nailing the bends PRECISELY yet, but am consistently hitting much closer. I'm also hitting bends in my licks and solos more cleanly and consistently. So that was a good one. Thanks. Now I need something similar for vibrato. Having a hell of a time with that. I'm trying everything YouYube can throw at me.----------
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Phil Pennington
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SuperBee
4438 posts
Jan 20, 2017
7:08 PM
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That is great news Fil! It will keep getting better because you'll use bending more fluently in licks which you might have avoided in the past. You're control and coordination of those muscles will improve with use.
Vibrato: mine is definitely not the best but it's much better than it was before I took some lessons. I'll have to review what Jimi Lee taught me. I recall it seemed to get better suddenly, but then I stopped working on it
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Killa_Hertz
2117 posts
Jan 21, 2017
8:56 AM
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I need to work on my bends a proper way. Im think they are pretty on, but that may just be wishful thinking. Not sure.
Vibrato. I think the Winslow Xerxa advice i posted kindof got overlooked. Or perhaps it was not easy to understand. But this was crucial for me in many areas. It helped my vibrato, my tone, and my general playing.
Give it a read. Perhaps i can post some sound clips to show you what i mean in the post. It REALLY helped me ALOT.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 21, 2017 8:57 AM
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SuperBee
4444 posts
Jan 21, 2017
1:40 PM
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That is probably what JL taught me just not in those words.
The first thing he taught me was about closing and opening my nose at will. And the same time he went with 'breathing from the glottis'
I dunno how anatomically correct that description is, but it's what he called it.
So every lesson he would have me start by 'warming up' which was just opening my mouth and breathing, making a soft 'c' or click sound using my throat. Breathing both in and out. It's 'kind of' a bit like a cough, not really because there's no power in it; it's gentler than normal breathing if anything.
Anyway, I think that is similar to what Winslow talks about with the open throat
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Killa_Hertz
2120 posts
Jan 21, 2017
4:12 PM
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Yes it is, i think.
But the side note was what i was referring too. He says that when he used to try and use tremelo while bending, it would choke him up and the bend would get lost. It was just a mess. I realised after reading this and trying it, that this was what happened when i did aswell.
Basically, do a tremello ... at a good speed, then slow it way down and speed it back up again. Pretty easy unbent right? Now can you do this with the same ease and control while sustaining a 2" draw bend? Because i couldn't, but i can now. And it really helped many aspects of my playing believe it or not.
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SuperBee
4448 posts
Jan 21, 2017
6:21 PM
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yep i got that. having the concept of separating the functions. im yet to try it out but it makes sense to me. ive been railing against the 'throat benders' for a long time on similiar basis i.e. that what you think you are doing might not be what you are actually doing. i based that on personal experience, basically finding out i was wrong enough times to be dubious, for instance when someone says they do something using muscles which don't exist
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jan 21, 2017 6:22 PM
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Killa_Hertz
2121 posts
Jan 22, 2017
8:48 AM
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Well i too thought that i was bending with my throat. Because when i learned to bend with my tongue flat in my mouth, it sure felt like i was bending with my throat. And it was an assumption lead by the "throat benders" you speak of... But i have come to realise that Im just bending with the part of my tongue that is back in my throat.
The main point behind this perticular exercise is to only use the muscles that are necessary for each function. And therefore being able to relax as much of your passage as possible. And also having more control over shaping your tone. The bending tremelo is just a bonus.
The reason most cant use tremelo while bending is because they are tightening all the muscles in their throat when they bend. When only the back of the tongue is really needed. So then you can keep those other muscles free and able to stay open.
Give it a try. Im very curious to see what you think about it.
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