Killa_Hertz
1908 posts
Nov 14, 2016
5:43 AM
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BEE This one is really for you.
I posted this in the MF and got no real responses.
I'm building this amp like I told you. I bought a Weber 10-A125-O its a 10" Alnico Smooth cone for early breakup with a 1.25" magnet and a H Dustcap to filter out some of the Highs. (16ohm)
The Question is which speaker would pair best with this in your opinion. I'm building a 10 + 8 box. So I need a good 8" to pair with it. I'm told it is good to try to match speaker efficiency. I'm not sure if these match, but the 2 speakers that I'm thinking of getting would be either a Lil Buddy or a Weber 8" Ceramic (8-F125 i think. Or even the 8-F150, which is the 1 1/2 " magnet.)
Im open to any and all recommendations. I just think that mixing the speakers is probably the way to go. The lil buddy alot of folks find too dark, but mixed with the weber I think it would balance it out ok.
I really have no experience here, I'm just going by descriptions of others posts, but ..... IDK ... SO many choices. lol
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LSB
212 posts
Nov 14, 2016
7:38 AM
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Can you clarify: You say you need a good 8", then mention the Lil' Buddy as a possible choice, but that's a 10" speaker......
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LSB
213 posts
Nov 14, 2016
7:56 AM
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Also, I mostly have experience with 10" speakers, but The Weber Alnico Signature 8" sounds excellent in the Harp Gear Double Trouble. Only a 15 watt speaker though, not sure what power handling you need.
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SuperBee
4274 posts
Nov 14, 2016
1:03 PM
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Well I like your choice of a 10". I like the eminence legend 1028k as well.
In 8"s, it kinda depends what you like. For a long time I liked the sig8 Weber and I still do but it is definitely a 'softer' fuzzier breakup than the 8a100 I have in my twin 8 cab, and I'm coming around to like that tight and crunchy sound more. It's such bullshit the words we resort to in trying to describe the way these things sound. If you listen to my 'easy' video on YouTube
https://youtu.be/y6p1drLRHAM
That's the twin 8" box with the 8A100 speakers.
I think the signature series 8" has a softer fuzzier breakup than that. It's different. Some people like it. I have one in my 5f1 clone because that's what was in the HG2 cab I had.
I don't really know other 8" speakers which you have available over there. I've got a bunch of 8" likdvthe 16 ohm Lady Luck but that's not widely available that I'm aware of. I'd say it's more like the vintage Weber, fairly tight. My others are kinda hard to know what they are. I really like the one in my vibroChamp xd but it's 'fender special design' which I think means 'cheapest speaker we could find that we thought we could get away with'. I've never taken it out to have s look. Ceramic. The amp alwAys gets good comments on how it sounds.
Then I have a few different Chinese specials and some old Alnicos from 60s Australian factories but you know, they're ok but you wouldn't bother chasing them down.
i had in mind there wS an 8" lil buddy, but maybe it's a tone tubby I'm thinking of?
I thing there is a wgs 8" that was getting strong reviews too but I can't find them in oz anymore.
I favour the Weber vintage series 8".
There are some Jensens widely available too but they never seem to get much love
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LSB
214 posts
Nov 14, 2016
1:45 PM
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Agreed, the Weber Alnico Sig 8 is on the warmer, smoother, softer sounding side of the spectrum, as opposed to the more cutting crunchy, punchy sound of something like a 10" Eminence Ram Rod or Ragin' Cajun. No idea what the 8" equivalent of those would be.
Killa, why you going with a 10 and 8, as opposed to 2x10 or 10+12?
Best all around harp speaker I've heard so far is the 10" Eminence Rf10C, just put one in my Megatone Wezo ME-18. Also sounded fantastic in the VHT special 6. A 2x10 with one or two of them would be great.
A 12" Eminence The Governor paired with a 10" Ragin Cajun is seriously kick ass (have those paired in another combo amp) although I plan to swap the Cajun for an RF10C at some point. Bigger sounding than 2 10's.
Sorry, not really trying to get you to change your choice on the 10+8 combo, just throwing some more info out there.
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Killa_Hertz
1909 posts
Nov 14, 2016
2:32 PM
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Thanks guys.
Lsb, no by all means change my mind ... lol.
I just had a crazy idea that i could get a good tight sound out of the 8".
This is going is a 5 watt single ended amp. A champ-ish style amp.
I have heard great things about the weber 10" i have already. And would just go with two of those, but I figure since i have two speakers to work with ... why not blend sounds to get a fuller dynamic sound.
Personally i like the punch y tight sound. So that's why i was thinking adding a lil buddy to the 10" weber. I thought they made an 8"?
Anyhow, i thought going 2x10 or even 10+12 was just a lil much for a 5 watt. I think the smaller speakers would drive better. And using the 8" i could get a bit of compression out of it.
Perhaps i will go 2x10" ..... not sure.
Nobody liking the weber ceramics?
Edit: BEE, Just had a listen to the easy vid.
NICE!!! Loving it. Very cool, you had the whole room going with that one. Sounded GREAT.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Nov 14, 2016 2:37 PM
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LSB
215 posts
Nov 14, 2016
4:21 PM
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Lil' Buddy speakers are currently only available in 10", and I don't recall them ever being available in an 8", but I could be wrong.
I don't recall ever playing through any ceramic Webers, so I'm no help there unfortunately.
2x10 would be more versatile if you ever want to use the cab with more powerful amps.
Mojotone, and probably other companies) make speaker baffle adapters that allow you to size down from 12" to 10" or 10" to 8". They are relatively cheap. If you made the cabinet baffle 2x10 you could add adapter rings for and have the option of 2x10, 10+8, or 2x8. Alternately you could make your cabinet a 12+10 and have that option plus 2x10, 12+8 and 10+8. That would keep you busy experimenting for awhile!
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LSB
216 posts
Nov 14, 2016
5:27 PM
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BTW, for anyone thinking about buying a 2x10 cabinet: Panama Guitars offers a 2x10 guitar cabinet, loaded with 2 speakers, which can often be had for less than $200 shipped. I can't the speakers sound fine on YouTube vids, but you could easily sell the speakers for $25 or $30 each and have a 2x10 cab for well under $150. Then put your choice of speakers in it. That's about the cheapest way to go that I've seen, short of building your own.
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Killa_Hertz
1910 posts
Nov 14, 2016
6:21 PM
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The cab is being custom built.
3/4" cedar.
I think i just might go 2x10 ... idk.
I really just need to find a matching speaker for the weber. But weber Doesnt really like to give out their efficiency ratings.
Word on the street is the lil buddy is far more efficient. So this might be a bad match. Perhaps I'm better off with another weber.
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SuperBee
4275 posts
Nov 14, 2016
6:32 PM
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MP gigs (at least sometimes) with a K'zoo and a two speaker cab. I'm not sure if 10"s or 12"s, but he sounds PDG in those Honolulu bar videos i've seen.
bigger speaker will project more. for the 5 watt amp i think the 10" + 8" is probably good. a pair of 10"s might be best compromise. the 8" will be a bit cheaper.
i think my weber sig8 is ceramic but i haven't done a side by side a/b test on alnico/ceramic with other aspects being equal.
its another of those things where you can narrow the field down to a bunch of good candidates but then it becomes personal taste and all the other variables come into play. and its kind of expensive to find out by trial and error if you have to buy to try. if you can get to know others and have a blow through their rigs you start to get an idea of how much or how little difference is made by things like this. some things i think you know, well, its different but i don't know if its better or worse.
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Killa_Hertz
1911 posts
Nov 14, 2016
7:09 PM
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Yea, im coming to realise its a bit like buying anything else. Your first new one you make a big deal of .... then the second and third aren't a big deal ...
I just dont want to A) end up with an amp that's too small to do much more than practice with and B) Pick speakers that don't fit my sound.
Because I surely don't have the cash to experiment with 100 different speakers.
Since I can't seem to get efficiency ratings on the webers to compare them with other brands, i might aswell just go wuth a ceramic weber to get another range of sounds with a speaker with like efficiency.
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SuperBee
4276 posts
Nov 14, 2016
8:52 PM
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Used to be able to get those efficiency ratings.
I went through this when I bought my vintage series webers. Then I wished I'd not been tight and bought 10"s instead but over time I've grown to appreciate the speakers anyway.
Speakers are expensive to freight around. Importing 2 8" cost me as much in freight as an extra speaker. Importing a 12" and 10" from US was like $100 freight.
Quite a limited range of speakers here, retail. especially 8". So I scavenge a bit. And not really much info to go on, I suspect because who has the money to try lots of speakers. I think most harp players in the same boat
Oh yeah that easy video..I don't remember the mic but probably my brown bullet, white CR. and the amp is a valve jr head with alnicomagnet blues harp kit (including treble cut tone circuit)
That was the first outing for the song (I still remember when that cheer went up I had to close my eyes to keep my composure. I felt I was in danger of forgetting what came next).
So yeah that is an example of a 5 watt amp in a live performance and completely adequate. Guitarist was very self-disciplined with volume (using a hot rod deluxe) and no drums, just the bongo man.
It definitely goes better with the twin cab.
I've since sold that amp but I have another one somewhat similar. They are good fun to mess about with.
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Killa_Hertz
1912 posts
Nov 15, 2016
2:55 AM
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Thanks for all the help Bee.
After all this talk, Iam considering bumping it up to a medium sized amp.
I have 5 watt amps already. So i kindof have that base covered.
Im really trying to Make up my mind here, but im not sure which way to go. Constantly reading about amp circuits trying to weigh them all against eachother. There are so many variables its enough to drive you mad. I think im just going to have to leave it in the hands of my amp guy and let him roll with it ... lol. But after talking with yall , im thinking medium push pull with 2x10 cab.
Re Closing your eyes.
That's funny, I had actually though about such a senerio when thinking of playing live. That's one of my fears is that ill get sidetracked by ANYTHING and just start playing random things as i daydream, or just simply stutter in the midst of a solo.
It really did sound excellent though.
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LSB
217 posts
Nov 15, 2016
5:10 AM
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What is your budget on the amp/cabinet build?
A 30 watt 2x6l6 with a half power switch is, practically speaking, about the most versatile set-up you can have, unless you need to play really loud.
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Killa_Hertz
1913 posts
Nov 15, 2016
8:02 AM
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Hmm. Interesting. Ill keep that in mind.
I'm probably looking closer to the 12 watt range. A 30 watt is going to be a Little to $$$.
When I get to the point of needing or wanting a 30 watt I will likely go the HarpGear Route.
I think Iam going to stick with my origional 10 + 8" Cab. But just bump up the wattage.
What circuit would you recommend?
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LSB
219 posts
Nov 15, 2016
8:49 AM
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See my recent post in the small amp, big amp thread.
There's currently a very nice, used, harpgear HG 30 on reverb.com for $900...... https://reverb.com/item/2511472-harpgear-tube-amplifier-hg-30-green-cream-gold
It's the earlier 2x8 model, not the current 2x10, so basically a Double Trouble on steroids, lol.
Last Edited by LSB on Nov 15, 2016 8:53 AM
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LSB
220 posts
Nov 15, 2016
9:26 AM
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12 watts?? Man, I don't generally try to convince people what to buy but seriously don't spend the dough on a 12-15 watt custom harp amp, seriously, it's a mistake. It will be hard to resell at a decent price, and you WILL decide to sell it eventually. That's going to be an expensive experiment.
Sell your 5 watt amps, get your dough together and buy one kick ass 30+ watt harp amp and be done with all the dicking around brother. A well designed harp amp can sound great at any volume: My 45 watt Megatone sounds better at bedroom volume than any 5 watt amp I've ever heard! Have you seen David Barrett's videos on the Megatone Wezo ME-18? They sound phenomenal at low volume. Greg from blows me away has said that his Sonny Junior Avenger sounds great at low volume, and you know he knows his stuff.
Get the "small amps sound best" mythology out of your head. It was true back in the dark ages, before harp specific amps, but those days are gone - except for those stuck in the wilds of Oz ;) who have to make due with modifying amps designed for guitar.
OK, I'll get off my soapbox now, because I really don't mean to be preachy, it's just that, having been down this long, expensive road you're currently on, I know where it leads. If I knew then, what I know now......
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Killa_Hertz
1914 posts
Nov 15, 2016
9:47 AM
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Ive already got a deal worked out on the cab. But i was considering possibly just getting a good cab built and then getting a masco from Skip.
Idk what to do ... lol. Imma have a talk with the guy and figure out my options, price wise, etc.
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MindTheGap
1880 posts
Nov 15, 2016
11:14 AM
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I haven't been down the long road myself, so I feel a little awkward about giving any advice. But all the things I've tried, the things I've seen, plus the research I've done, lead me to think that LSB has it right.
All I can say is what I'd do in your shoes, which would be to hold out for a much more powerful amp. The fact that I haven't taken my own advice says more about how much money I'm prepared to spend on my hobby, plus I like the aesthetics of carrying round everything in a briefcase - so it's pedals and PA for me.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 15, 2016 11:15 AM
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SuperBee
4277 posts
Nov 15, 2016
12:03 PM
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People have different ideas about it. Depends on your situation.
'Harp' amps ain't harp amps.
I'm here in the wilds of oz, surrounded by harp amps. But there's no consensus.
My stage amp is inspired by one Aki Kumar uses over there in outback SanJose. The same model Kim Wilson often requests provided when he travels.
Ian Collard is trapped in a remote town of 4million an hour from me. I spent some time with him discussing his (re)discovery that he preferred a bassman over the amp Gary Onofrio convinced him to buy. Ian has numerous amps he uses for various projects of course.
Another player I've worked for, a guy who plays festivals and cruises and plays that Chicago style, says he has finally found the amp he wishes he'd played at the outset, a sonny jr.
So there are two players in similiar style and ability, similiar types of gigs. One says his SJ experience was frustration from start to finish. The other says he wishes he'd known how amazing the SJ amp are from the start.
Which is what it really comes down to; what you want to do with an amp. There's no 'perfect' amp IMHO. You can try for a one size fits all solution, with the idea you spend the money one time and then you're done. Maybe that will work for you. Maybe it has worked for someone. Seems that Dan agrees with that idea.
I see Dave Barrett with his access to any and every amp you could ever wish for, still has a stock Princeton Reverb he loves, along with his various wezo amps and bassman. Dave's mentor Gary Smith could also have any amp that grabs him. And he has many, all sizes.
I know quite a few harp players, scattered across the wild and desolate outback here, and in between fighting off wild dog attacks and hordes of knife-wielding tourists from U.K., I notice their amp choices are all over the place. One has a Kzoo, HG DT, meteor, goldentone bassmaster, and a tweed proluxe homebrew in a blues jr cab. He gigs all of them. Another is a bassman guy, in fact several are. The sonny jr avenger is out there, there's one at my club and I'm expecting it to show up at my jam soon. The owner (who has been gigging harp since early 70s) is notoriously protective of his gear but I'm hopeful he'll at least demonstrate. I spoke to him when he first brought it to the club and at that time he was of the opinion it had definite strengths but also weaknesses. He has continued to gig with it though and I've heard it a few times. Of course, how much is the amp and how much his playing is something you don't know until you hear the player use something else or get to play the unit yourself.
But there is a guy who gigs only one amp. Maybe he has found his perfect amp.
I was speaking to a guitarist here, a guy who is really a class act, a contemporary of the harp player I mentioned above, has been a pro for over 40 years, a full time muso with a pension plan funded through gigging and supports dependants. I'm saying this guy has professional credibility. I met him because he was looking for an amp. This guy has had more access to amplifiers than most, from back when fenders were still blackface. He is still buying and selling, modifying amps. I sold him a hotrod deluxe for cash and an ampeg jet. He later traded the deluxe for a supersonic. There's probably not a used amp in this town he hasn't played at some time.
You'd think, if there was a perfect amp, he'd have found it by now.
I understand, he plays guitar. But why would harmonica be different in that way?
Another local harp player for whom I sometimes repair, a guy who has been playing sax and harp in the same popular band for a decade, soul blues kind of outfit, has a HG50. He also has an HG DT, which he told me he will never sell despite it being not quite loud enough for the band. He has also owned a HG 30, which he sold and does not regret moving on. He does want his Meteor back however.
I played the HG50. On the strength of that experience I'm pretty happy with my Deville. But it was not exactly a comprehensive test session.
My 5f1 is in an HG2 cab. The reason there was an HG2 cab available for me to use? Guy who owned the HG thought it should be in a bigger box.
There's no getting over people and their funny ideas.
I think other people's hindsight is interesting.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 15, 2016 1:21 PM
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LSB
221 posts
Nov 15, 2016
1:14 PM
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You completely missed my point, it had nothing to do with finding the mythical perfect amp.
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SuperBee
4278 posts
Nov 15, 2016
1:38 PM
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But isn't that your point? Forget the horses for courses idea and as soon as possible get one kick ass 30 watt amp that will do it all?
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SuperBee
4279 posts
Nov 15, 2016
2:03 PM
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Sorry MTG, occurs to me maybe my post is not appropriate for this page. Not sure.
Just my point of view of course.
Nutshell, investigative process is how we learn what we want. At the end you can look back and see the wrong turns as mistakes, wasted time and money. But you can also see that as a necessary series of experiences. Sure, some may learn faster than others.
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LSB
222 posts
Nov 15, 2016
2:08 PM
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No, my point was that if you are relatively new to amplified playing, and your end goal is a great sounding, versatile amp, then you can save yourself time, money, and frustration by skipping the constant buying, modifying, and selling of low power and/or guitar amps, by simply putting your money toward one amp that is already optimized for harp and that has enough power for most situations you are likely to find yourself in the first few years of playing.
Not advice for pros.
Not advice for the rich - buy as many amps as makes you happy.
Not advice for people who like to build amps and modify amps.
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MindTheGap
1881 posts
Nov 15, 2016
2:55 PM
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Superbee I think your posts are more relevant than mine here, I don't know anything about speaker choices or the nuances of different circuits like you do.
I was just picking out the simplified bones. Killa already has a little 5W amp and if he gets another one it may sound a bit different and he may like it better or not. But it won't allow him to do anything different - whereas a bigger amp is actually different.
LSB's thoughts seem to chime with mine - even though I'm not actually buying any amps! Especially the last bit - if a person is into amps you are bee then that's justification enough to keep buying and modding them and enjoying the differences and the journey and the accruing of experience.
What I mean is it's home much you regard amps as a tool to get the job done, or a nice thing in their own right. Where you are placed along that spectrum. I don't feel warmth towards my powered PA speakers whereas I do towards my little valve amp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 15, 2016 2:59 PM
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Killa_Hertz
1915 posts
Nov 15, 2016
3:42 PM
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Everyones points are valid and i appreciate them all.
Bee the more i thought about it, the more i kind of came to the same conclusion. Kinda have to go thru it to see what you like.
LSB I also take your point. A 30+ watt amp probably would serve me very well. I just dont think I'm there yet. Both financially and in my playing. It will likely be a few years before i end up needing an amp of that size. So i will work towards getting one, but right now i think I'll go just one notch up. To the medium level.
After exhaustive research, I've stumbled join this lil beauty. Its the Weber 52FH.
Apparently it was designed by Bruce Collins of Mission Amps.
Its still a single ended class A, but it boasts up to 20 watts. I think if i skip the kit, buy all high quality parts myself. And put it in a 10+8 cab, it would be pretty rockin. Add a line out and she should do alright i rekon.
I know this amp was kinda popular around hear a ways back. Any input on this circuit?
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MindTheGap
1883 posts
Nov 16, 2016
2:23 AM
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I think it's good to consider the logical options, and then follow your heart. Even suspecting it may not be the 'right thing'. And in this case, Superbee's thoughts indicate that there is no 'right thing' here anyway.
You may end up one day with a little amp, a medium amp and a big one. Which sounds like a good position it be in.
Thing is, you only asked what speaker to buy :) I suggest one of those round ones. I know nothing about speakers.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 16, 2016 2:31 AM
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MindTheGap
1884 posts
Nov 16, 2016
2:31 AM
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...actually though, when I was looking at speakers someone pointed me at (I think) the weber site where they had all these descriptions of the sound, and sound samples, with guitar of course. They all did have different flavours.
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Killa_Hertz
1924 posts
Nov 16, 2016
2:53 AM
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"One of the round ones"
Thanks mtg your most helpful ... 8^/ .. lol.
Yea, they do have the different samples. But i can't decode guitar vs harp.
Humbucker pickup vs regular pickup ... enough to Make your head explode.
Some great points here none the less.
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SuperBee
4280 posts
Nov 16, 2016
4:15 AM
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Ah yeah, on the 5F2H it is actually the amp that inspired me to build an amp. But I never did build that one.
Rick Davis had a lot of blogging going on about that design.
I didn't remember it used a kt66.
Anyway, it's been variously called 10 watt, 15 watt, "up to 20 watt".
I think it's possible to get 20 watts from a single kt66 but I dunno how practical that is.
Anyway, Rick used it for a couple of years and was a big rap for it. He gigged it at the jam he runs/ran. (Maybe because he ran the jam it helped him use whatever amp he wanted? Couldn't hurt)
His was in a larger cab I think, with a 12" speaker. You could do it as a head and have an 8 ohm cab with twin 10"s or 12"s, or a 4x cab with switchable combinations, so you could use it with different amps. But that's probably a bit OTT.
I'd forgotten about that amp but it does seem quite reasonable.
LSB idea is not unreasonable. My first amp was a 30watt combo. Wasn't the greatest amp by any means but I learned a lot trying to use it. I just wouldn't spend a lot on any amp until I had a pretty good idea I knew what I was gonna do with it. Of course if you spend a moderate amount several times, it adds up. But given you've got what seems like a really cool small amp on the way, why not embrace the idea and enjoy it for what it is. If it sounds like the one in the Austin Hardiman clip, it'll be great!
Seems like it'll also be a nice guitar amp and a quality unit, so I don't think it'll be too hard to move on if you want, or more likely you might move the VHT along at some time.
On the topic of speakers.. you have choices. It's a bit like harps. You can narrow the field down to a handful of good candidates but at some point you just have to take the plunge and live with the consequences.
I was looking at options for a big amp for backup. I don't want to spend a lot. I'm unlikely to ever buy a 'harp amp' built by someone else, maybe when I retire. So I was looking at building either a bassman or something on a 5e3 chassis. 5e3 itself would be cool but considering a proluxe which is basically a deluxe using 6L6 tubes instead of 6V6, and appropriate transformers. About 35 watts. As a head with a twin cab it could be the go.
That 5F2H looks pretty good. I reckon id go the larger cab and speaker if i was building one.
There's no question in my mind the bigger speaker in my Jet gives it an edge over the similiar power amps in my collection.
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Killa_Hertz
1929 posts
Nov 16, 2016
5:07 AM
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Thanks Bee.
All your comments have been very helpful.
I Really was thinking about building a Head and a Cab instead of a combo amp. That way atleast I would always have the killer cab. But that would require 2 Cabinets and raise the price considerably I think.
I was talking to my amp guy yesterday and I think I'm going to go with a slightly modified and beefed up version of the 5F2H. I'm going to order all the parts separate vs getting the kit. That way I can get slightly better quality parts and only use what I need.
The more I thought about it, the more i realized the fact that it's just like people asking for opinions on the "best" harp (or best anything for that matter) it's all subjective. But I think I have it boiled down now to what I want.
I saw all of Rick's posts on it as well as a few old threads on here about the 5f2h. Seems like a winner.
Again I'm going to moddify it slightly. Oversize the xfmrs, probably go with a Tube rectifier, and I want to go Octal with the pre amp. Probably 6SL7. Add a line out. Put it all in a nice custom cab with a 10+8 ... I think it'll rock. Should do me pretty well for a while I think. The Line out will surely give me more versatility.
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Killa_Hertz
1930 posts
Nov 16, 2016
5:45 AM
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Yea that 5 watt that I posted earlier isn't being built yet. I was still trying to make up my mind on exactly what I wanted. So I'm scrapping that idea and going with this custom version of the 5F2H.
I have that Weber 10-A125-O already. And Like I said ... I wanted to go with a Lil Buddy or one of the other Eminence Ceramic models, But it seems Eminence are one of the more efficient speakers and Weber are one of the least efficient. So mixing them is porbably a Bad idea. From what I'm told and have read ... matching efficiency of the speakers in your cab is rather important. So in light of this ... I think I'm going to go with another Weber Vintage. But this one will be 8" and Ceramic. I think I will likely get a very nice sound out of that. Either way I can always change them around if need be.
Oh and BTW that Amp that I posted a video of is for sale. J.D, Taylor has it. ( It was made custom for him. With 2 6x9 speakers, Finger jointed Pine Cab, and I believe a 6v6 and an Octal Preamp.) He only wants like $400 - $500 for it. I forget which he price he told me.
He has a BUNCH of amps for sale actually. I think he's a bit of an amp junkie .... lol. Who can blame him? Another one he is selling is a Custom made by Big Jon Atkinson. It sounds awesome too. But I think that one is a little steeper in price. Like $900.
But I thought I would throw that out there if anyone is interested. Hit up JD on FB.
Cant wait to get this Amp Project going. Now that I FINALLY made up my mind.
Thanks Guys for all the Help.
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LSB
224 posts
Nov 17, 2016
9:25 AM
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Sounds like a fun project killa, enjoy!
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Killa_Hertz
1941 posts
Nov 17, 2016
1:03 PM
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Let me ask you guys this. ( do you think I should post this on the MF?)
Ok so im taking the 5F2H circuit and adding a second kt66 in series. So 2 KT66's. Now how/what does that change?
Meaning how do I calculate for the OT Z? And after I calculate it using the datasheet, how much over that does one normally go?
Obviously I'm stepping up the Watts on the OT, but ..
What else in the amp would change to accommodate the extra power tube?
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Nov 17, 2016 1:04 PM
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LSB
227 posts
Nov 17, 2016
1:10 PM
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Outside my area of expertise, so I'm useless on this - I mean I have an amp that runs on two KT66 tubes, but that's all I know, lol. Probably a good question for the main forum.
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SuperBee
4281 posts
Nov 17, 2016
6:17 PM
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a second power tube in series? i think you get more to worry about than the OT. if you mean you take the signal out of your power tube and then feed that into another power tube, its not gonna achieve much that i can see. i think you already have enough from the preamp to drive the power tube to saturation, so adding another tube in series wont achieve anything except heat or a meltdown, depending how you do it.
you could run it in parallel. see the lonewolf site - Harp amp projects tab, for a parallel 6v6 amp design which uses 3 x 6v6.
the usual approach is to split the signal through a phase inverter and use two power tubes in a push-pull config which is much more efficient
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 17, 2016 8:29 PM
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SuperBee
4282 posts
Nov 17, 2016
8:37 PM
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this is from the "single ended 3 x 6V6 parallel" project, which is about a 15 watt amp. i expect you could do this with 3 6L6 tubes for >20 watts. i dunno what the requirements would be for transformers, i mean i havent thought about it. you would need a PT that could handle the current draw; the 6L6 heaters draw nearly twice as much as a 6V6. but there is some info in this extract which alludes to how to decide on the characteristics you'd need in the OT.
"THE POWER STAGE
Single-ended amps produce a tone that is extremely popular with harp players, so much so, that many choose to mic their lower powered single-ended amps through a PA when performing, rather than use an amp with a push-pull configured final that produces more power. The typical single-ended amp produces around 5 watts, and to be significantly louder one needs at least 15 watts. In order to achieve this, I used three 6V6 tubes in parallel. One of the primary differences in this amp compared to the 6L6SE is that an adjustable fixed bias is used instead of a cathode bias. Reason being is that I wanted to offer something different in this design, and I wanted to be able to fine tune the plate current draw easily. The bias voltage is set low to allow for early breakup, and the screen voltage is filtered for added noise reduction. The plate impedance of a 6V6 at 315V and 35mA (producing 5.5W) is 8000 ohms, as noted on the RCA 6V6GT data sheet. Our operating parameters are 345V at 30mA (producing 5W) is close to that of the data sheet. When we place three in parallel, the plate resistance drops to 2700 ohms; keep this in mind when selecting your output transformer.
THE OT AND THE SPEAKER
The output transformers are chosen based on the output power, current draw, load, and tonal quality. We use the same OT as in the 6L6SE; push it a little harder and it sounds great. The OT is rated at 15 watts at 80mA; we push 15 watts at 90mA through it, and it sounds great. The Weber WSE15 has a 5000 ohm primary; to get it down to the desired 2500 ohms, we use the 16 ohm secondary and connect it to an 8 ohm speaker. This effectively reduces the primary load to 2500 ohms. An overdriven output transformer can induce a great amount of distortion into the signal, higher order harmonics that sound harsh. But when overdriven moderately, you can get a great compressed tone. There are some who like a smaller transformer; indeed many of the vintage amps had the smallest OT that the builder could get away with. The larger transformer improves the bass response and is favored by many today, but if the OT is too large, the amp will sound sterile. Because the circuitry in this amp has such great low end performance, I did not need to go with an oversized OT but was able to chose one that is the correct size according to the current draw and output power of the amp. The recommended speaker was chosen based on vintage qualities: early breakup, crunchy/compressed tone, response and volume. The Lone Wolf Blues Co Harp Train 1015-8 Speaker meets these characteristics. "
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