Havoc
5 posts
Nov 09, 2016
8:14 PM
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I'm sure 99%of my questions will have already been addressed over the years, so is there a "search" bar somewhere I'm missing?
Just started experimenting with TB. I feel like I'm tongue tied while TB. Is a bend while TB ing different than when puckering?
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SuperBee
4259 posts
Nov 09, 2016
10:49 PM
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'Forum search' is located in a fly out menu under the 'blues harp forum' item in the left sidebar menu (desktop format). That same sidebar menu is a dropdown from the menu icon in top right corner on the mobile device format.
TB bending is the same as any other bending except that the tip of the tongue is anchored. So you have to learn to hump your tongue without wiggling the tip about. It's easy, but takes a bit of time to get control because we don't usually do that much. It feels like you control it from the throat. Normally I think people have their consciousness in the forward part of the tongue but since that has to stay put it seems you have to think a bit differently about how you move it.
People generally seem to not get it when I say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Think about holding a cup in your hand and raising it to your mouth.
Are you raising your hand, or bending your elbow?
That's the kind of thought-shift which is required for tongue block bending. You can think about raising your hand, and your mind will be on the hand. Or you can focus on the elbow, and your experience will be located there. But the very same muscles are doing the same thing, raising the cup to your mouth.
With bending your are humping up your tongue and it feels like you have to pull the tip back to do that, but you actually don't.
Takes a while but it's actually easy, just unfamiliar.
I have been doing it for a while and bending the other way feels weird and unnatural to me now.
Rfxutp
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SuperBee
4260 posts
Nov 09, 2016
10:56 PM
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It took me decades to get around to tb. I suppose I started playing around with it in 2006/7. By 2010 I was using it to do slaps and lifts on the high end and I'd accidentally done some bad pitch bends on hole 3. Then I found david Barrett's brand new blues harmonica dot com site and found he said tb bending was real, possible and desirable and I drank that cordial straight down. I guess because I'd been doing it a while already the bending seemed to come quite easily but then bending to pitch was a whole other adventure (ongoing)
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MindTheGap
1867 posts
Nov 09, 2016
11:55 PM
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Welcome to the forum Havoc.
About the searches, you'll notice that this forum isn't structured like other ones with topics, sub-topics etc. So it doesn't have the same kind of 'memory'. The same questions and topics come up over and over and over, and there's no problem with that! Ask away, everyone likes the opportunity to chat about harmonicas.
One of the reasons for starting this Beginner's Forum away from the Main Forum (MF) was so beginners could ask the same thing again and not get told to go and search for it because it was discussed once in 1937.
Actually the same topics come up over and over in the MF too, it's just their repeated topics are different from ours. I find the various explanations about why you need an impedance matching transformer the most entertaining.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 10, 2016 2:48 AM
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MindTheGap
1868 posts
Nov 10, 2016
12:07 AM
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Re TB, Superbee said it correctly I think. Yes, it's an unusual movement with the tongue, so yes it does feel awkward at first. I've tried both TB and pucker (LB) and I generally bend with a LB because I like the feel of it.
Be aware that some people claim wonderful things from TB (deeper, richer, more truthful, bending from the spleen etc.) And who am I to doubt them even if they are utterly wrong :) I think TB bends do feel quite different so it's easy to convince yourself they'll sound different. But they seem to sound exactly the same to the listener.
For the advanced player, TB bends do open up interesting techniques like playing a split (two notes, one from each corner of the mouth) while bending the two notes differently at the same time. The purpose is to play an interval you can't normally get on the harp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 10, 2016 2:52 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1882 posts
Nov 10, 2016
4:57 AM
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Super Bee that was a GREAT breakdown! Love it!
Havoc I have just learned to TB bend. (Sort of) Im still not as good as my Lip Pursed bends, but they aren't bad. It takes alot of practice.
When I'm learning something new I dont really like to just sit and practice it for HOURS and HOURS. I just play as I normally would and I try it a little bit everyday until it get tiresome, then move on.
To learn anything I like to just keep searching for other folks ways of doing/teaching it. Eventually one of them will hit the Lightbulb. And then all of them will make sense .... lol.
Try this. DONT put your tongue on the harp. Take your lip pursed embouchure, but keep your tongue flat on the bottom of your mouth. and try bending. I found the 3 hole easiest. I had the 3' and the 3" bend down LONG before any of the others. Your results may vary. Just try different holes and different keys aswell.
3 hole and 5 hole were easiest for me.
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Havoc
6 posts
Nov 10, 2016
7:00 AM
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Thanks guys.
I dig the info! My TB is still an infant, playing the simply melodies I first learned with LB and single notes are my thing right now. But of course, it's a harp, the whole reason i started was because i heard soul in it which I later found to be labeled as bending. All your counsel is tremendous. It will be interesting to feel out my progress with LB, since it feels so unnatural and awkward now. Any recommendations on understanding blues music better? I have access to plenty of info on riffs, licks, techniques and the sorts and can memorize and play songs, but have no clue as to the why and when things come together. The circle of fifths and 12 bar info I'm beginning more familiar with but would like more. I'm an infant who wants hair on my chest!
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If you don't cut it while it's hot......
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Killa_Hertz
1884 posts
Nov 10, 2016
7:54 AM
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Nice! Lol. I know the feeling. And if your lucky it will never go away. I have learned ALOT in the short time that I have been playing. And I still feel as if I barely have a grasp of it..... So dont worry and try not to feel too overwhelmed.
For the understanding of the 12 bar blues, try Adams you tube videos on the subject. Then to take it a step farther .... download his Tradebit videos. They are hear on the site. The lessons will teach you what is going on and how to count it. Then Adam has songs that will teach you how to play it. How to do cord changes, etc.
I also recommend Ronnie Shellists' Lesson Called "Inner Groove" it will show you how to play to various different types of grooves. Such as Shuffle, Rumba, etc. Aswell as teaching you what a quick 4 is, a 125 groove, and the various different things you will need to know to play standard rhythms.
All of his other lessons are fantastic aswell. His lick lessons, position lessons, ALL great.
And another thing I HIGHLY recommend is LISTEN TO BLUES MUSIC CONSTANTLY.
Get albums such as
(The Chess "His Best" albums are really great.)
Sonny Boy Williamson 2 - His Best
Howlin Wolf - His Best
Little Walter - His Best
Junior Wells - Hoodoo Man Blues
Muddy Waters - I'm Ready, Hard Again. King Bee
James Cotton - 100% Cotton
I could go on forever. But just find an artist you like and listen to them over and over. Sonny Boy Williamson 2 is FANTASTIC. And I think he is very easy to get right away. Some other artist take a little bit before you can really hear them.
I have a thread with Great Blues Albums. Go on to spotify and type some of these in and see what you like. Then go out and buy them.
IO highly recommend the Amazon App on your phone. You can even find hard copies of some albums that comwe with "Autorip" So you get the hard copy AND the MP3 for the same price.
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Killa_Hertz
1885 posts
Nov 10, 2016
8:16 AM
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Check These Sites For Music Recommendations. I can't stress enough how important listening to music is. or Ateast How Important it has been For Me. Perhaps I should put it that way. Although I doubt anyone would disagree.
1)
http://archive.harmonicasessions.com/aug03/essential.html
2)
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/blues_harp_gods.html
3)
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Pablinchi/great_harmonica_blues_albums/
I really want to start a beginner thread that can just we can simply show people who ask these questions. Because each time I do this I feel im leaving things out .... lol.
Havoc Please go check out some of the other threads to assure you get all the good info.
This one thread in particular had some good nuggets in it. Check it out.
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/8987845/5492306.htm
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Nov 10, 2016 8:17 AM
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MindTheGap
1869 posts
Nov 10, 2016
10:20 AM
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All good recommendations. In addition, if you want to gain some theory, I suggest Winslow Yerxa's Blues Harmonica for Dummies as a good start. And/or any of David Barrett's books.
They will unlock why you play certain notes over certain chords, and also show where those notes are and aren't on the harp. It's detailed business, especially when you start playing other positions.
I would flavour this by saying that the theory resources I've read (and it's only very lightweight theory in reality) are good at addressing the harmony side of things i.e. which notes to play over which chords, but not so great at unpicking the rhythm side of things. And I think it's the rhythms that really differentiate blues.
There aren't actually many notes, but there are lots of rhythms!
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 10, 2016 10:23 AM
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Havoc
7 posts
Nov 10, 2016
11:31 AM
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Thank you guys! I feel like my responses to your help is inadequate. Thank you for you time and knowledge! Sounds like I've got a good punch list, thanks!
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If you don't cut it while it's hot......
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Killa_Hertz
1888 posts
Nov 10, 2016
12:02 PM
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That's what its all about Havoc. Have Fun 8^)
MTG Yes, the theory side of things is were I lack big time.
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Mirco
438 posts
Nov 10, 2016
2:00 PM
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I second the motion towards Adam's videos on the 12 bar blues. I think they're videos 16-18? I constantly refer people to them.
After that, listen to a lot of blues. Not just harp blues. You'll start to internalize the 12 bar form.
If you want a solid, in depth breakdown of tongue blocking and the possibilities that it opens up, try Dave Barrett's site (bluesharmonica.com). If you bought a Hohner recently, you probably have a coupon for a free month.
There's a LOT of material on there, and it's too much for some people. But it's all great stuff... Dave even went into the MRI machine to show you what tongue block bending LOOKS LIKE inside your mouth! (That stuff is all online for free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ZjNUWnhgk)
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Havoc
8 posts
Nov 10, 2016
8:02 PM
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Thanks micro. I will look into them. I have a hohner in my Amazon cart, but I should probably find a local retailer if I want that coupon, right?
On a progress note, I found the 2 and 3 hole bends today and touched the 4 bend a few times!
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If you don't cut it while it's hot......
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Mirco
440 posts
Nov 10, 2016
8:41 PM
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No, it comes in the Hohner box. On most models, I think.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Havoc
9 posts
Nov 11, 2016
2:23 PM
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Micro,
Very cool MRI study, true science!
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If you don't cut it while it's hot......
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Shaganappi
144 posts
Dec 09, 2016
2:53 PM
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Wish I had done more TB years ago. I am just doing now and yes, feels so awkward. But getting better.
If you are looking for advice on how - not me.
But advice - you are right in trying to do it early on in your playing. Good luck dude.
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Havoc
22 posts
Dec 09, 2016
2:57 PM
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Shag- thank you. TB is coming along nicely. I've been following Jerry Portnoy's blues masterclass and it has been a tremendous help
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If you don't cut it while it's hot......
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