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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
My Fender VibroChamp XD
My Fender VibroChamp XD
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SuperBee
3657 posts
Apr 29, 2016
8:01 AM
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I think people don't believe me when I say this...I've never met/encountered any harp player who agrees with me when I say the VibroChamp XD is a great harp amp. But I've just had it reinforced to me, again, how good it is. I took it to band practice tonight because I was too lazy to take my Princeton Reverb...and the thing just rocked. The guitarist told me he liked it better than 'what I had last week' (I.e. The PR). I'm a bit saddened because I love the PR, but I agree.
The amp is no longer made, but I believe they're still about and they're cheap. Guitarists seem to prefer the bigger 'SuperChamp XD' (now the X2). The 8" 5watt VibroChampXD apparently was not popular enough so discontinued when the SuperChamp was updated to X2...
Anyway..every time I use mine to play out, I get compliments, and the onboard effects make it convenient to use..sure, they're a bit limited but I've got chorus, reverb and a useable delay in an amp that sounds very tube...I mean it is substantially a tube amp...
And tonight no exception...the drummer made a point of telling me they're all very happy with having me in the band, the guitarist accused me of doing homework and the bass player is a harp fan...all agreed the harp sounds great..,
And the harshest critic was also very happy with the sound of the amp tonight...it's just if they play too loud I'll need something bigger but for practice this little thing cuts it well.
I'll tell you how good it sounds...for the first half hour I was playing with no effect at all, totally dry signal and very happy. Playing lots of octaves in this group, so it's a big reedy sound...
Ok, annual VibroChamp rave done now, return to normal program...
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MindTheGap
1540 posts
Apr 29, 2016
8:59 AM
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I've never seen one in the flesh. I read it's a 5W Class A design. And it has 'voices' too - how does that all work?
How would it compare with something like my Joyo?
Any clips?
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SuperBee
3658 posts
Apr 29, 2016
3:35 PM
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It has a chip, very similar to the Fender Mustang amps, which provides the preamp voice. I've never had it apart or seen the schematic. I must look for a schematic.
Where it's a bit different to some hybrids (according to what I've read) including the SuperChamp XD, is that it has a 12ax7 which operates as a driver for the 6v6 power amp. The SuperChamp has a 12ax7 also, but in that amp the 12ax7 functions as a phase inverter.
The power amp section of the VibroChamp would be very similar to the Joyo. All the difference is in the preamp.
I believe the preamp including the tone controls (bass, treble) is completely solid state until the signal hits the 12ax7 for a final boost...(so I imagine only 1 triode is used in that tube)
The preamp provides a choice of 16 'voices' only 1 of which is great for harp imho, and 2 others are marginal but ok in the right circumstances. I don't bother with them as I've satisfied myself that voice 4 "clean blackface" is the optimum choice.
I think this is the key to using the amp for harp, and probably why few people have found the amp praiseworthy. It's 1 in 16 choices and sounds very unexciting. What harp player looks at a 5 watt amp and thinks 'clean' sounds appealing?
Despite the name, because the gain and volume can be dialed in separately with the usual potentiometer type knobs, you can actually control the crunch and have very good feedback control across a quite wide range. At low volume you can bring the gain up and get an overdrive sound, or you can lower the gain and increase the volume for good volume without feedback susceptibity. It's rather like having a harp break pedal, but perhaps a different quality to the clip.
Besides that...control of gain, volume, bass, treble...there is the DSP effects section. There are a couple of reverb effects, a couple of delay settings, a couple of chorus settings, chorus + delay, chorus + reverb, tremolo and something called 'vibrotone' (I think).
I'm vague on some of these because I seldom use them. I do use the delay and reverb and I've used the chorus and chorus+ settings. The delay is a bit limited because they are just a couple of presets as regards the length, but I find them useable with the harp so well-selected. Likewise the reverb and chorus. The 'chorus +' effects are somewhat more limited. The 'level' of effect can be dialed in separately so if you want no effect you just wind the level fully anticlockwise.
Of course, there's no requirement to use the on board effects. You can still run a pedal into the amp...though I can't swear I've tried it.
And I do believe there is a line out, but I can't swear to that either just now.
The cab is a bit bigger than the average champ I think, but quite lightweight. It's bigger than a pro junior.
Dave Barrett was recommending the 15w SuperChamp to beginners for some time, on his Bluesharmonicadotcom site. The videos may still be there despite it having been superseded by the X2. I've no doubt that's a good amp and perhaps even better than the VibroChamp but it's a different deal really...15 watt, 10" speaker. That amp had a second channel which was named 'clean' and this was the one DB recommended. There is some confusion about it; some folks think it's a true tube preamp. It's not. It's the same 'clean blackface' preamp model as used in the modelling channel, but the separate gain control is not used for the clean channel. Gain is preset. Anyway, that was my clue to concentrate on that voice on the VibroChamp and it's really the ideal voice. There is a 'tweed bassman' voice which is tempting to use, but it's marginal at best, rather feedback prone...(and who are they kidding anyway? So much of a bassman is about the speakers and cab...you just can't get that from an 8" speaker...)
This was the second amp I ever bought and really I could have sat there, as far as 5w amps go. It's all I need. But I have...lost count..5 I think, if this one counts as a tube amp...and 2 SS. I recently sold a 5 w tube amp. All the 5 watt tube amps were bought and modified or built from scratch just because I wanted to learn how they work, and then one day you realise you have half a dozen slightly different but overwhelmingly similar units for which there is limited application..but it kept me out of trouble perhaps...and diverted me from more practical concerns like painting the bathroom...
Anyway, I firmly believe in the VibroChamp XD if used with this 'voice number 4', and that those who dismiss it for harp probably didn't learn to focus on that voice.
Of course, it could also be that it's just the thing which suits my personal approach. I can't discount that. But my observation is that it's common for people tell me how good the harp sounds when I use this amp. I have had it 5 years, and I rotate my use of small amps, so I think I have a basis of comparison, and to me there seems to be a trend.
I would that it wasn't so...id love my pure vintage tubes to be the best rather than this Chinese-built hybrid modelling amp...and in some ways I think they are...just those ways seem of limited interest or simply undetectable in a performance situation and this thing is very practical.
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SuperBee
3662 posts
Apr 29, 2016
5:25 PM
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No, I don't have any samples. I don't want to repeat that 3 indistinguishable amp test.
Any ideas? I'm pretty clueless about recording.
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MindTheGap
1544 posts
Apr 29, 2016
11:48 PM
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Re samples, yes I know what you mean.
So using voice #4, are you getting that 'small tube amp sound', but with something more like a gain+master-volume control? Or is it a cleaner sound?
I reported on trying the Fender Champion (40 and 100) which is all solid state, but has a separate 'clean' channel like you describe with the SuperChamp. This was the best I thought - whereas the 'Tweed voice' models all gave a compressed sort of sound, which seemed OK on their own, but put side-by-side with a real tube amp sounded weak.
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SuperBee
3668 posts
Apr 30, 2016
4:26 AM
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Absolutely it's similar to small tube amp but maybe just a little smoother. I expect those voices you described are very similar to the models in this amp. And if they have a 'clean' it's likely similar to this. The 'tweed' and 'overdriven' models are generally too gainy and feedback prone and probably lack depth which may be the same thing you mean by compressed, which may be the correct tech term...I kind of understand what compression is but then again I've never thought about it very deeply...I understand Jason Ricci values it and I think that's because he plays lots of notes quickly and all over the harp and needs to even them out for the sake of clarity, otherwise it would be hard to appreciate what he is doing. Oh ... While on the subject of my utter ignorance of effects and signal processing...what does that 'sonic stomp' or 'sonic maximiser' pedal (which is so popular) do? I see it on so many pedal boards and I have no idea what it's for.
Anyway, to me the VibroChamp on my preffered setting sounds s lot like a real live tube amp but a bit nicer. 'Smoother' is perhaps a word, 'fuller' may be another. It's not that it lacks an aggressive edge, if that's what you want...I just find it very responsive to how I like to play, which is somewhere on the cusp of clean and mellow, and big and distorted if I want to play with some passion...you know, a sound that will reward the dynamic of your playing, or reflect that at least, so it can sound pretty and musical and move into broken hearted with that ragged edge on the loud notes...
So hard to describe these things...but you know how a little pignose sounds like a beehive once you turn it past 4 o'clock (it starts at noon)?...well it's not like that...but it depends how you set the controls..,too much gain and you'll start to buzz
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MindTheGap
1549 posts
Apr 30, 2016
10:38 AM
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Re compression, it can mean different things. JR uses an 'Optical Compressor' which reproduces the signal faithfully but changes the overall envelope of the signal fairly slowly to keep the volume roughly the same. It responds in a particular way with time and signal that people find pleasing. Doesn't just cut of the peaks.
Distortion (soft tube distortion and hard clipping) produces compression too as it cuts off the peaks, but of course sounds quite different. It adds frequencies that weren't there in the original signal.
That sound that Martin was getting with the Joyo is like that - strong distortion and lots of compression as a result.
What I mean by compression on the Champion is probably a mix of the two: the 'Tweed' voices have lots of distortion, but when it comes out the speaker it's all about the same level. Like listening to Ace of Spades on a little transistor radio - you can hear the Marshall stacks in overdrive but the actual sound level doesn't vary very much.
With the raw tube amp, when you pull on a note as you describe, it tips into gritty distortion, but also actually gets a lot louder too.
When I did the bypass mod on the Joyo, it came alive like that. When I record it, of course, it's a pale imitation of that because both you and I listen to the results on PC speakers or headphones.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 30, 2016 10:42 AM
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MindTheGap
1550 posts
Apr 30, 2016
10:43 AM
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I don't know what those sonic maximize pedals do either.
EDIT I've just read up about it, and I now know what it does, technically. And the result is a 'wow' effect that adds definition. I think it can be overused.
My own aim with these pedals is only to recreate the kind of thing people used to get using the standard kit available at the time. Bit of the right kind of distortion, some EQ and some delay. They certainly seemed to use delay/reverb a lot on those classic recordings.
(EDIT again to remove rant about overused effects in the 1980s)
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Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 30, 2016 11:20 AM
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