SuperBee
3645 posts
Apr 26, 2016
3:19 PM
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This is about tech work but I think there's a parallel with learning generally.
This seems to work for me. Maybe it's not for everyone.
I just spent 4 days doing tech work on harps, minimum 4 hours a day. More like 6 hours average. Mostly spent tuning but also addressing some tricky questions like 'why does this 9 draw reed sound dull and how can I make it sound resonant?', and 'how does Joe Spiers make this 10 chamber play so well, and can I replicate what he has done?'.
4 days of this stuff, 8 crossover reed plates and 6 complete special 20s, and by yesterday I realised I had learned so much from the experience. My skills were up, I'd become so much more efficient from sheer repetition, and my judgement was improved to the point I tuned 40 of 42 blow octaves to play beat-free on reassembly after a single pass.. My ability to play the draw octaves cleanly was much improved too. My order of operations was more efficient and my ability to concentrate, work quickly and move to the next step was switched on...
And I believe I developed a better understanding of some reed working practices which had puzzled or frustrated me for a while.
On reflection I see that my playing also responds to this sort of 'intensive workshop' approach...much progress that I've made has been from particular focussed events such as getting one of Adams lessons and just working on it for days to the exclusion of other playing, or that minor pentatonic triplet scale that I played until it became instinctive...
I guess it's about focus...and staying on the right side of insane obsession
At last with the tech work I can see the possibility of being able to work efficiently enough to make minimum wage as an hourly rate...not quite there yet...I'm at around $12 an hour..minimum wage is $17.50 here...not quite ready to quit the day job, unless they offer me a golden handshake...then I'm out of there
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Killa_Hertz
1185 posts
Apr 26, 2016
5:02 PM
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I find that to be true. When i get stale in my playing i usually get one of adams tradebits or another song to decrypt and just pay the hell out of it for a week or so. Even after you stop playing it all the time, just that journey will take you down another path and open up a new avenue.
But it also will really beat those riffs, patterns, and techniques you learned into your head. And the more you do this the more your repertoire grows and you have so much more to call on when your improvising.
Sorry that got off track ... lol.
Anyways that's cool man, I'm glad your getting it down. I find my mediocre skills sharpening a bit aswell. I just haven't done enough Harps yet.
But i hope you get to the point where you could do it full time. That would be sweet. Ever thought of selling your own customs? There seems to be a whole market over there since shipping from the states and Europe is so high. Might could capitalise on it.
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MindTheGap
1530 posts
Apr 27, 2016
1:46 AM
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Which side is the right side of insane obsession?
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MindTheGap
1531 posts
Apr 27, 2016
1:51 AM
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It's a good point. A big problem I find with self-learning (and I would rather have a real teacher, but there's no one around) is working out the pace. A good teacher should get you working on material that is a stretch, but not too much. And they move you on when you have got what you need out it, but that doesn't mean perfecting it.
So I agree that doing some intensive work is good, but picking the level is a trick.
$12 AUS per hour is that what you charge? It's your market, but aren't you underselling yourself? If you are getting more efficient, wouldn't it better to charge a fixed price? Or did you mean you do charge a fixed price and that's what it works out at to do the work?
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 27, 2016 1:55 AM
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SuperBee
3648 posts
Apr 27, 2016
5:10 AM
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i dont charge by the hour. i charge by the job. the hourly calc is an indication of how inefficient i am. i do need to raise prices...i quote for reed replacement but often end up tuning entire harps.
the right side of insane obsession is when you can pull out at will and recognise the dog needs a walk and thats important enough to stop what youre doing with the harps...but sometimes continuity is necessary, or it can tend sisyphean (spelling?)
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Killa_Hertz
1187 posts
Apr 27, 2016
5:31 AM
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I agree. Mtg. You should anyways push yourself. But you never know what's to far until you try.
For instance when i first started playing, a few months, i was dying to learn a full blues song. And help me had always been one on the top of that list. So i got will wyldes video and recorded the audio so i could listen to it anywhere and i played it until i learned it. Now that was the first song i ever learned. But if i were to have gone by adams tradebits (which i hadnt found at this time) i would have seen that he had that song in the advanced intermediate section and may have never though i could learn it at the stage i was at.
I always push to the next level. Even if you can't play it great, when you fall back to an easier level everything feels much easier and you have a bit more confidence in your playing. Which goes a LONG way.
Ive downloaded adams hardest songs on the list. I can play em ask the way thru, but i wouldn't know until i tried. And ive taken some of the licks i can play. Even changed a few around and made them my own.
Anyhow im rambling.
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SuperBee
3649 posts
Apr 27, 2016
5:51 AM
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i recently read something winslow wrote about learning to play C chromatic in key of E and i thought it could be applied to many things...he advocated first learning the root note in each octave...and playing along to a bt, just playing the root...rhythms etc..and then playing the 5th...learning the root and the 5th...limiting yourself to these notes while playing along...then he suggests playing the root and moving one hole to the right..the minor third...what can you do with root and minor third...then playing along using the 5th and and also moving one draw note to the right...which is the flat 7th...then he says try moving one note left of the 5th...thats the 4th...notice it doesnt work so well on the I chord but is good on the IV and V...and if you put all those together its a minor pentatonic scale...and youve learned it all while getting a feel for the character of each note...
well, i only read up to there because spoilers...there were another 6 parts...but i liked the idea...i must check out what else he has to say about learning chromatic...
i meant to ask MTG, about the horn lines idea with chromatic...im in a horn lines situation myself
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MindTheGap
1535 posts
Apr 27, 2016
7:53 AM
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Re horn lines - I've put the chromatic-horn lines on hold for the moment (despite my enthusiasm for chromatic in the other thread).
At a recent gig, I had the choice of playing horn lines on the chromatic or diatonic (with some substituted notes that were missing). I chickened out and use the harp because I hadn't got enough practice with the chromatic and the band. Or made the wise choice, however you see these things.
When I have more time, I'd love to get stuck into the chromatic. I did spend some time with it to start with, and rather than learning it like you laid out, I started by learning note layout, then scales in a few useful keys, and had some success with single-note improv. I also started to sight read from lead sheets in the conventional way. I was going to buy one of the Real Books and read/learn a load of jazz standards.
I'm learning the drums and if it's a choice of practice time on drums or chromatic, then drums win. Because I'm paying for lessons! Imagine that, an actual teacher, graded exercises and books. Heaven. No need to join a forum Ha Ha :)
When I use it, I think the chromatic sounds great amplified. So I think there are rich pickings with the horn line idea. I use it for a few songs like St James Infirmary where I love the sound of the long, diminished notes. And it's in Dm. So easy to do with the button.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 27, 2016 9:02 AM
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SuperBee
3650 posts
Apr 27, 2016
2:10 PM
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i see...i think you posted about it once b4 but i couldnt recall which thread...
i'm torn...i really want to learn to play the chromatic 'properly', and to that end i bought max de aloe's book...and bill galison's 'standards' book, although thats a play-along type and i need the knowledge not the copycat learning atm...
i like max's book...i'm learning to read standard notation from it at the same time
but as i started to say, i'm torn with this new band project where i need to play a different role...maybe i'll pass on the band...its probably just a headache i dont need...theres only so much energy available for discretionary activities...
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MindTheGap
1536 posts
Apr 27, 2016
10:29 PM
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Exactly. Time and priorities.
I find the chromatic massively appealing as a package: small, relatively inexpensive, all the notes, you could play 'anything' on it in principle, quiet enough to practice at home, only need the one or possibly three different keys. When I play it amped with a band I like the sound.
...but... I don't listen to much chromatic harmonica music and when I do quite like it, but probably not enough. Versus the amped blues harp which I listen to a lot and I love it at a gut level. No explaining it, it just is.
When I first got my chrome, I did hunt around for inspiration, but drew a blank. Yes, there's 3rd position blues and I can use a bit of that. But I was looking for inspiration around multi-key playing (not just 3rd and 1st) that was more single-note style.
Plenty of jazz examples, but that's a whole other world of complexity. That's why I thought about the 'horn lines' approach. Plenty of examples to emulate there. I still think that's a route - although I quickly found that many horn lines with fast chromatic phrases didn't layout all that well on the harmonica, so it's not an easy ride.
If I wanted to play well-known melodies for my own amusement and to entertain the family, the chromatic is just such an obvious choice - which is why I so enthusiastically recommended it to NBD. But that's not my bag.
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Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 27, 2016 10:38 PM
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Killa_Hertz
1195 posts
Apr 28, 2016
9:37 AM
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Im sure that the reason the horn lines were tough was because they duchy jive with the chromatic layout? Not that i would know, but just judging on context.
So what if you designed a chromatic for playing horn lines? Put the notes where they need to be in order to play the horn lines efficiently.
Just an idea. Easier said than done, but it would be pretty cool.
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MindTheGap
1537 posts
Apr 29, 2016
3:37 AM
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Yes, I expect that's part of it. Most instruments that have note layouts that make certain phrases go with the grain. The diatonic harp is an extreme example I think - hence all those stock blues licks (wonderful licks IMO).
I don't want to get into re-tunings myself. Apart from maybe the bebop tuning that's been recommended.
Actually, a bit more research suggests I should get into Lee Oskar's work with WAR. Quote from wiki:
"(Eric) Burdon agreed to the novel idea of pairing up Oskar's harmonica with Charles Miller's saxophone to form a horn section. "
Of course I associate LO with his diatonics rather than chromatic. I'll have to find out if he played chromatic too. But maybe his single-note style would to translate well between instruments. As opposed to the chord rhythm/double-stop/slap-pull blues tradition.
That LA-latin-infused music isn't really my thing. You might think that blues would be equally alien to someone in the UK, but actually we grew up with the outworkings of blues in all the quality music around. So it's deeply ingrained.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 29, 2016 3:52 AM
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SuperBee
3663 posts
Apr 29, 2016
5:49 PM
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Ha..seems my judgement may have been impaired by my intensive sessions...for the very first time I have returns...I've misjudged the low end blow gaps on the G and A harps and sett them too tight for the player.
I remember I did this after the final clean up, I was assembling the harps and I suddenly thought I must give them s final look over before assembly in case something changed in the cleaner...and I press the plates on a towel when they come out, to wick away the moisture trapped in the slots...
So anyway I thought some of those gaps were a bit wide still and closed them up...tested all harps with bellows but apparently my customer blows s bit harder than that...anyway, live and learn...this error was in the very last part of the job and will take me about 10 minutes and $20 postage to correct.
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MindTheGap
1543 posts
Apr 29, 2016
11:33 PM
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But how are you supposed to know what gaps to set for each customer. Do they tell you, explicity or implicitiy?
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SuperBee
3669 posts
Apr 30, 2016
4:36 AM
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Yes, that's the thing.. I usually do what works and you get some clues from the way the rest of the harp is set up. I thought from the (to me) over-wide gaps that this fellow probably blows it pretty hard, but I should have asked him. It's hard though because people often have little idea of how relatively hard or soft they play so you have to ask things like 'how often do you break reeds?" To get an idea..,anyway, the clues were there and I failed to register and clarify so that's a product of my intent to get the job finished and then in final assembly throwing that out the window and decided the gaps were too wide...and I knew they were OK because I'd tested before cleanup...
He said he was stoked with the other 3. I think that means 'good'
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