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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
Reed plates
Reed plates
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Truth2012
37 posts
Apr 02, 2016
5:02 AM
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Hi Guys
Hope some can shed some light.
I have been playing sp20's since I picked up the harp. Tried a crossover didn't like the feel of it. Thought I'd try a rocket in A, but I cannot get used to the size of the holes. Feels weird playing octaves.
So I decided to swap the reed plates on the rocket put them in a sp20 in A and wow I have a lovely responsive Sp20, overblows great!
Question is I thought the reed plates were the same on both models, is this correct?
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SuperBee
3567 posts
Apr 02, 2016
5:23 AM
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Yes they are the same.
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Killa_Hertz
922 posts
Apr 02, 2016
6:15 AM
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Hmm. Wonder why it plays better then?
Think that goes back to your theory bee .. that your partially paying for setup with these higher priced hohners?
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Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
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Truth2012
38 posts
Apr 02, 2016
7:37 AM
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There's a Lesson there for me, just get your existing harps set up right. If you cannot do it yourself, pay someone else to do it!
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Killa_Hertz
925 posts
Apr 02, 2016
8:31 AM
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No. Learn to do it. Don't pay anyone. I can help you if you don't know how.
It's mostly trial and error.
(Sorry this post got long, but i thinkn its worth the read.)
Richard Sleighs Hot Rod your Harmonica is a great learning tool.
Kinya Pollard is a great harp tech aswell.
Andrew Zajacs website is also good.
My suggestion. Dont go crazy with trying to emboss and all that kinda stuff. Just first learn to gap, which shouldn't take long, its very easy. Just takes a light touch so you don't overbend a reed n mess it up. If you slip while trying to push down a reed it can be bad, but this wont happen if you take your time. You just have to figure out how YOU like it to play. But either way, you want all the notes to feel even. So you don't have to adjust your technique because you have a 2 draw gap to wide or a 4 blow reed too tight etc.
Then once your ok with gaping, learn shaping or arching. Basically you want the reed to enter the slot all at once. But most importantly, You DONT want the tip going thru first. There are a few ways of doing this. Many of which explained in hot rod your harmonica dvd/download.
You need to close the gap at the root, which can be tricky sometimes. But light arching can be very eff3ctive aswell if you don't want to take it that far.
Just a quick gap n shape is all i do initially to a new OOTB harp. Takes about 20 min. But if ,after i play it a while(a week or so), its still a little off. I will open it back up and put some real time into it.
Since you play SP20s you don't have to worry about flattening your comb, but flattening the reed plates may help. But is probably unnecessary.
So if you learn Gapping and Shapping/Arching you should be pretty set as far as making your own harps play very well. It's not very hard, just takes time to learn do to it right and develop your skills. Your skills will continue to evolve each time you do it. Even the pros change their techniques and ways of doing each task. As you can see in HRYH. R sleigh shows you many ways he uses for each thing.
Highly recommend you learn these things. You ll be much happier with your harps. And your playing skill will increase faster because you won't be thinking about the harp as much and the uneven feeling with the reeds.
Althought your harps probably arent terrible. IMO SP20 are the best OOTB harp after tHe MANJI. But they still need to be tweeked.
Start with a harp you don't play much and wouldn't mind messing up. Not that you will, but it's possible. Invest in the hot rod your harmonica video, its worth it. But youtube will get you pretty far. Kinya Pollard ..
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Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 02, 2016 8:32 AM
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Rontana
316 posts
Apr 02, 2016
11:06 AM
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While the SP 20 and Rocket reed plates are the same, the combs are not (in a variety of ways). As the OP mentioned, he couldn't adapt to the hole size.
There's a reason for that, and Rockets very much take a little getting used to. I generally play either Rockets or MB 1896. Two different tones entirely, both of which I like, and the harps are vastly different.
Here's an excerpt from an article written on the "Harp Surgery" site that explains the Rocket in more detail (it's a long piece, but worth the read if you're interested)
"Returning to the airtight aspect of the Rocket for a moment, there is one final feature that completes Hohner’s design breakthrough. The Rocket’s channel openings are a millimetre bigger than standard models. They also narrow as you look into the harp and this means the airflow through the Rocket is effectively ‘turbo-charged’. In the grander scheme of things, we’re talking barely a millimetre’s depth to the taper, but an experienced player will notice the difference. "
As to tweaking, I mostly just tweak gaps if needed and flat-sand the draw plates. Did it with all my Rockets and with MB 1896s (an exercise in patience that is, getting all the nails back in and not losing a couple) and even a couple SP 20s. The difference flat-sanding a draw plate makes in any harp is massive, especially on the high end.
Watch the Zajac video as mentioned above. Flat-sanding is very simple
Last Edited by Rontana on Apr 02, 2016 11:16 AM
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SuperBee
3568 posts
Apr 02, 2016
3:16 PM
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I have had a few Rockets in for repairs. I really like them.
But I like the Sp20 too. There was a time when Sp20s were the majority of harps I'd had through the workshop. Now I repair Seydel and Suzuki too and the 20s don't dominate like they did...what I'm trying to say is that I've worked on lots of Sp20s, and just a few Rockets. The Rockets have always seemed to me just like really nice Sp20s. I never noticed any negative impression about the chamber size. Yes, the comb is subtly different to hold but the difference is much less than going between a marine band and a 20 or a Seydel harp etc.
but about the reedplates and why the sp20 with rocket plates seems to play better...
It's a stretch to draw any conclusion based on a sample of 1.
It's not saying too much to think the reedplates from the Rocket were setup better than the plates you replaced. But whether that means Rockets are generally better setup in the factory I can't say. Your sp20 might have been a poor example. Your Rocket might have been an exceptional example.
As I understand it, hohner don't have separate production lines for sp20 and rocket reedplates. When they make a reedplate to fit these models, they don't know whether it's going into a rocket or a sp20.
I don't know which stage of the process the gaps are set. If that happens when the harps are assembled or when the plates are tuned.
It's conceivable that gaps are set prior to tuning. That makes sense to me, because the reed needs to play in order to be tuned.
Perhaps the premium models get attention on assembly that the standard models don't get? I have no idea.
I think the thing to remember is that these are mass-produced and assembled by hand. There is a degree of variation within tolerance. Sometimes you get a great one, and sometimes a lemon gets through.
IMHO the Rockets and 'Progressive' sp20s are some of the nicest stock harps I've played.
Anyway...if you buy spare reedplates for rocket or sp20, I'm pretty sure you'll be getting the same stock. There could be a difference when you buy complete harps, but that's just speculation.
Oh, one other thing. The rockets have 2 extra reedplate screws. If not over tightened, that may help them. I think it's interesting that hohner have put them in. The sp20 has always had provision for these 2 extra bolts, but they don't fit them.
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Truth2012
39 posts
Apr 03, 2016
6:07 AM
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Looks as though I had a lemon of a sp20 then.
I have gapped all my harps some time ago. So that's not the reason for slow response and the difference in playability between the rocket and sp20.
The extra screws could be the difference as you say superbee.
I will try and flat sand the draw plate and put extra screws in the rocket with the old sp20 plates and see what happens.
Thanks guys
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SuperBee
3571 posts
Apr 03, 2016
6:16 AM
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Could be reed shape. But there are several factors which can come into play and some, most really, are quite small differences
Last Edited by SuperBee on Apr 03, 2016 1:35 PM
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