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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
Beginner's Thoughts - Is this any good?
Beginner's Thoughts - Is this any good?
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MindTheGap
1106 posts
Feb 06, 2016
3:12 AM
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Let me try to start a conversation about something that has dogged me about since I started trying to learn this thing.
It's the fundamental question: is what I'm playing actually any good? Is the harp any good at all?
I've mentioned that I've played other instruments at various levels of competence, and it's not been like before. Piano, guitar, you start with simple stuff, and even simple can sound perfectly good and musical. Much of the music you play in a band doesn't need to be flash to be effective. In fact IMO, unless you are the star turn, flashy stuff isn't that good. In my band there is quite a range of technical skill, but as an ensemble everyone has a genuine part to play.
Then my harp comes in, and I sometime think hmmm. Like it's not a proper instrument somehow. When I hear others play it, I don't tend to think that. It may be I simply don't like my own sound, it may be I can't play it properly, it maybe I doubt that the harp is any good at all.
Maybe I think you have to be really good to be any good on the harp. My grandma couldn't 'play the piano' but she could bash out popular songs from her youth and they sounded great, full of musical life - know what I mean?
Anyone else had dark thoughts like these?
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 06, 2016 3:17 AM
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Fil
101 posts
Feb 06, 2016
4:10 AM
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Frequently. We can be our own worst critics. However, I think your third paragraph ("For most of us....") provides an 'essential' musical truth that applies to the harmonica as well, and maybe life in general. There are times when you've got to solo, but even then you are part of the ensemble. What do they think? Hopefully, you'd get a straight and constructive response. And how good do you have to be? I think that to some degree it's a matter of context. Local bar jam vs permanent gig on Beale Street. But I don't think there's ever a good enough, even for the local bar jam. That's why I/we work so hard to get better. It's for ourselves as much as for the ensemble, the dog, grandchildren, whoever's listening. And your grandmother, God bless her. She had a ball bashing out those songs, family had a ball listening, watching and experiencing her having a ball, she played from her heart. How might she have done with Mozart in a grand hall? I haven't been able to play for three weeks, recovering from eye surgery...again. Too much time for dark thoughts. Tomorrow I can go back to more doing and less thinking.
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Phil Pennington
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Phil Pennington
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MindTheGap
1108 posts
Feb 06, 2016
4:30 AM
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Sorry about the eye surgery, hope you are indeed recovering well. Yes, health problems trump pretty much all other considerations. Have you had to remain still?
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Killa_Hertz
450 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:35 AM
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I think Ians post hit it pretty well. Good post.
I think if your 100% happy with your sound your a fool. Everyone thinks they can improve. I mean the better you get, the better people you compare yourself to. I mean kim wilson compares himself to other world class musicians.
I think at our level we will always be struggling. But that's half the fun. Like i said before, i get into things 110%. But when i figure them out i get bored. Luckily harp is something ill never fully figure out.
I think Bee had a great point. We all suck, but only the die hard stick with it ...... until they don't suck so bad. Then eventually you get good. Or you find out you ain't got what it takes. One or the other
But to answer your question simply. Ofcourse i think the same way. I'm pretty sure we all do. But then you listen to something that inspires you and you get over it.
But i have also listened to great harp players play the same classic harp lines. And thought, is that all harp is. A one trick pony. Chicago machine.
Its all in the interest of new exploration and improvement bro. Keep kickin.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 06, 2016 5:40 AM
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Fil
102 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:37 AM
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Not quite still. Very limited activity. The doc has been quite adamant about it, and I've been good.
Another random thought...I hear song by Kim Wilson or Big Walter and the sound seems so effortless. So I put it on the slow downer and start to work. Not so effortless. In fact, much, much effort and a pale imitation. Subsequent dark thoughts. Then, a piece of it finds its way into my woodshedding and noodling and I think maybe there's progress and hope.
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Phil Pennington
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Ian
281 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:39 AM
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When you are 'in' something so deep, it's often easy to feel like what you are doing is no good.
Sometimes you just need an outside perspective.
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people, when listening to even a vaguely talented harpist are suitably impressed.
Its a difficult instrument to get good at.
I've handed a harp to friends, and after 5 minutes they are still bewildered at the sound I can get out of it... And I'm really not that good.
That short clip you shared a couple of weeks back... That was really really good. I'd love to play like that. I'm a mess compared to that when I'm improvising.
I see what you are saying about your grandma being able to play the piano... Well enough to bash out some recognisable tunes.
I think one of the hardest things in harp is that as it often replaces the vocal or horn line, is that it's not great to have in the background whilst people sing along.
You can be pretty rubbish at guitar, but if you know a dozen chords you can play a thousand songs that people can sing along to round a campfire, then all of a sudden you are the hero of the evening.
So my point is, you often won't get the kudos that a pianist or guitarist will get in a social situation.
But that doesn't mean the harp has any less musical importance.
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MindTheGap
1109 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:44 AM
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A number of good points there.
There's definitely some idea that if you are harp player you should be able to play this or that style - and especially that solo train style, but also country-style, chugging, rhythm work in general. I'm conflicted over this, on the one hand I do see it as a thing to do, but I know that would take a lot of effort, and it doesn't float my boat.
Re plateaus and mucking about with amps (and writing on forums): Plateaus are a guaranteed part of learning, they just are. We (beginners) often get criticised over it, but playing about with mics and amps and harps, and participating on forums is a great way of keeping your hat in the ring while that is going on. Helps me plug away when there doesn't seem to be much return.
Maybe I should get into fixing up marine bands too, that does look like an absorbing activity. I'm envious of the enjoyment you all get from it.
I'll have a think. My mode has been to stick at it waiting for some breakthrough, whether that emerges through practice or takes some revelation.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 06, 2016 6:09 AM
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Killa_Hertz
451 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:49 AM
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I also think you get lost in what your doing sometimes. But if you record yourself often. Go back and listen. Itll make you feel better. Lol. Progress. Its all you can hope for.
Also i haven't even played for a whole year yet. So I'm still in the honeymoon phase i guess you could call it. Those of you who have played longer have had more time invested (obviously) So i guess it can sometimes feel like more time waisted, when in doubt. But go back and listen to old recordings MTG and see how much you ve improved.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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MindTheGap
1111 posts
Feb 06, 2016
6:14 AM
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Yes good idea, and thanks for the kind words Ian. Plenty of food for thought.
Definitely one thing is that the harp playing that drew me in (mostly British R&B hits) was quite a bit more straightforward than the stuff I've been listening to since. So the goal posts moved suddenly a long way back!!!
Fil - Staying even relatively still for that long is a feat. Hope it works out.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 06, 2016 6:16 AM
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Ian
282 posts
Feb 06, 2016
6:35 AM
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I think changing it up, mixing styles is important too.
Like you said mtg, the stuff you are now invested in is more advanced than you started with.
I'd totally agree. The kind of harp that I now aspire to is crazy complicated compared to the slow blues and country that I initially strived towards.
I felt like I had hit a plateau about a month ago, so I stuck with the same old tunes and got a bit bored to be honest.
I then tried a few of adam's advanced intermediate tabs and f9und that I was able to pick then up pretty quickly. It came as a bit of a shock actually.... Turns out I had progressed!
Now I'm trying to play more recognisable songs. To add a bit of variety. Jon gindicks bluesify Your melody is great for me for that. At first I thought they would be too simple but his spin on things is fun and in some instances pretty advanced if you really swing with it.
Sorry I think I rambled off topic a bit there....
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Rontana
287 posts
Feb 06, 2016
6:58 AM
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I think most people - assuming they practice daily - see a massive leap in the first six months. You're going from knowing nothing, unable to play a single note, to bending and scales and real songs, etc. etc. You feel like you're gonna' be a great player in short order.
And then reality hits. After a few more months, you understand that progress is wholly dependent on how much work you put in, and there aren't any magical leaps or massive evolutionary shifts. I think of it like weight training (just because that's something I do). As long as you consistently put in the work you know you're not going backward, but you also realize that future increases are of the slow and steady variety.
The answer to the question of "is my playing any good," varies from person to person. Is it good enough for jams, for paying gigs? In that case the audience, fellow musicians and club owners decide. is it good enough for friends? Thats between you and them. Is it good enough for you when nobody else is listening?
That last question is the real crux, not just of harp playing but also as a metaphor pertaining to most aspects of life. When your playing is good enough for you, when you're truly happy with it, it's good enough. The opinions of others don't matter. Some folks want to always get better, whereas others are fine to reach a certain point and stay there. Both approaches are valid, no matter what anyone else says (it's your life, not theirs)
This same truism also applies to the type of music you want to play. Everyone should play what they like, and to hell with peer pressure. To me, all music is valid for harp - blues, rock, folk, country, pop . . . if you like the tune, play it. Who cares what position it is. If it's pleasing to you, if it makes you smile inside, it's good,
Lots of times I just work out tunes that happen to pop into my head. To me, that's the fun of it. So far this morning I've played Summertime, Swing Low, Amazing Grace, Night they rode ol' Dixie down, theme from Sesame Street, Mary had a little Lamb, and L. Cohen's Hallelujah
Some have tons of wrong notes . . . some I've got down to the point I am trying different grooves and improvising. But . . . it's all fun.
This is my ongoing (broken record) theme when it comes to playing harp, or really as a philosophy of life. Forget what anyone else says you should do. Dispose of any assumptions you might hold regarding what you believe others think you should do.
Follow your own drummer, do what gives you pleasure, and always have fun
Life is too short to do otherwise
Last Edited by Rontana on Feb 06, 2016 7:04 AM
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Killa_Hertz
453 posts
Feb 06, 2016
7:46 AM
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I think that's true Ron. At first you advance so fast that you think the progress is goin to stay consistent and you ll be great in no time. But then you hit a plateu. Then breakthrough a bit. Then anther plateu.
Like i said ... If your not questioning your skill and your playing in general, your never going to improve. That's all part of the deal.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Ian
284 posts
Feb 06, 2016
9:01 AM
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I think thats true of almost all things in life that require practice and skill.
With my freediving students they are always amazed how quickly they progress up until about the 100ft deep mark, then progress is painfully slow. A lot of people give up at that point.
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Glass Harp Full
97 posts
Feb 06, 2016
3:22 PM
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Great points about the nature and rate of progress. It reminds me of language learning. You can make progress fairly quickly to start with to get to the point where you can have basic conversations and do basic everyday tasks but to go beyond that takes real hard work and constant practice. Of course some people are happy with knowing enough to get around while others want to go further.
Like others have said, do what makes you happy and don't worry about anything else.
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harpsquealer
10 posts
Feb 14, 2016
5:42 AM
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I think that Rontana hit on a really good point at least for me. I started by learning piano and though I really enjoyed it at some points, I could never stick through it when learning the classical pieces. I played the saxophone for a few years also.
But somehow, the harp is so different for me. While the other instruments were not my choice, the harp was. No one forced it one me; I chose it. It's been my idea and hobby all along. I don't play because I want to see my name plastered across some billboards or the internet. I play because I enjoy the instrument and I can lose myself in the music--even if it is not that great.
And I think that this brings it back to the original question. When we play, it is easy to focus on what others say, but I think that it is important to remember what your goal is. If your goal is to have your name splattered across the world in golden letters, don't settle with today. If your goal is to enjoy each second of the journey, then keep moving forward and worry less about how you sound.
And I think an important note that others have brought up earlier is to record yourself. When you record yourself, you give yourself a frame of reference to see your improvement. How else do you see yourself get better?
Interesting timing considering the fact that I wrote a short blog post about this same idea:
http://www.theharmonicablog.com/two-years-ago/
keep on harpsquealin'
harpsquealer
Last Edited by harpsquealer on Feb 14, 2016 5:44 AM
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