Rontana
262 posts
Jan 15, 2016
3:09 PM
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On the main forum there's a thread - the Virtual Back Porch - that occasionally gets bumped back to the top of the heap. It's a little of anyone and everyone demonstrating what they're working on.
I think that would be an even better idea here, in that we can offer tips, critiques, thoughts, and suggestions. Accolades are all fine and well if a body likes something, but constructive criticism is much more helpful.
Hopefully a few of the more experience folks from the main forum will drop by and weigh in with their thoughts from time to time.
So I'll kick it off. I really didn't know this jam track was so damned long when I started playing along to it last night, but when I started I had three main goals in mind. First was to get through an entire track without sounding too redundant or repetitious. Second was breath control. Third was my ongoing battle to master the warble.
Any and all thoughts are welcome.
The link I've placed below goes to the blog page of my website. You'll see a picture of me (an old picture) and a sound doohickey underneath. Just click the doohickey to start the tune (I can't embed it directly for some reason)
Rontana's Jam Track
Thanks all
Last Edited by Rontana on Jan 15, 2016 3:12 PM
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Killa_Hertz
248 posts
Jan 15, 2016
4:02 PM
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Nice man, real nice.
Ok well u wanted construtive criticism, so here goes. Lol.
The timing was great. On point.
Wasnt too repetitive to where it got boring. Even though it was a long track i didn't mind.
However *dun dun dun*
No .. no real criticism. Just a few things you may want to think about.
Although it wasn't really my style it was good. But i think even if you wanna play up and happy like, it was just dying for a hard gutteral 2 " somewhere. Even more so i think because it would add alot of contrast. And it's like building up to something that didn't come. Maybe add a little heavy solo piece in there toward the end.
The warbbles. I still have trouble with also. I have to use my right hand, either by itself on in conjunction with the left or they come out messy.
I like how it was nice and steady. Notes were very clear and pronounced. Something i have trouble with. As i start to play fast and improvise i get sloppy.
I enjoyed it. And thanks for starting this thread its a great idea.
How long have you been playing?
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......." Where Does He Get Those Wonderful Toys?" .......
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Rontana
263 posts
Jan 15, 2016
5:02 PM
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Thanks KH . . . I appreciate the thoughts on that.
Warbles have been my nemesis. These are all head shake . . . which I never thought I could do because of a neck injury from 40 years back. But, I just keep working on it daily, at first VERY slowly, then faster and faster. It's still not there, but it's sounding somewhat better.
I "officially" started practicing November 2014 . . . so a year and change. I did buy a harp way back in 2006, but played for just a short time before getting involved in other things (actually cleaned the harp up and gave it away)
Thanks again for the input
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Ian
232 posts
Jan 15, 2016
5:21 PM
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Good idea! And well done.
I like that you stick with your groove throughout. It has a nice upbeat feel. Like kh said, good clean notes as well.
I feel like your best section was from approx minute 2 till minute 3. At around that point it sounds like you may have had a moment in your head along the lines of "how am I going to move this forward? " (something I get every time I jam to a long repetitive or simple track). You got right back on track again in the last minute which finished it nicely .
Not really a criticism, more an observation.
Warbles were very solid, one had nice light and shade in particular.
Your low bends get a lot more solid as you go on as well.
Good work!
I'll try to record something when I get the chance. Any ideas on hosting platforms for tunes... Soundcloud? I can't use my YouTube account as its a business account.
Last Edited by Ian on Jan 15, 2016 5:41 PM
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Rontana
264 posts
Jan 15, 2016
5:49 PM
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Thank you Ian, and yes, there was very much a "where do I go from here" moment. I think I need to learn more scales . . . the better from which to build riffs.
Have been doing songs and jam tracks lately and have let the scales slide a bit
Also what you say about the low bends is true. Whenever I start a song - even just sitting in the house - I get self-conscious or perfectionist (not sure which) about trying to hit the bends just right. After playing a minute or two that feeling goes away. Personal weirdity (weirdness + oddity = weirdity) I suppose
I think Soundcloud is a pretty good platform. Sure seems like a lot of people use it
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Ian
233 posts
Jan 15, 2016
5:53 PM
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I get what your saying about being self conscious of those bends. I need to play for a while before I get beyond that feeling, else I'm just fighting myself.
Forgot to say, I liked the triplets in the middle.
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MindTheGap
994 posts
Jan 16, 2016
12:15 AM
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Good idea for starting this thread.
And the piece - nice work! This is a hard task, playing to a 5 minute backing track. I know you aren't playing with a band, but this is much longer than you might solo for, so if you can do this then playing a regulation 12 or 24 bars would be brilliant practice.
All kinds of good things to mention - nice sound, good clear notes and good timing. As kHz mentions, it's a consciously happy style rather than gritty blues and you kept that consistent throughout.
I used to join in with the harmonica boogie website - where the backing tracks were also longish. I found that the most satisfying thing for me was to go for less variation and more repetition - trying to find a hook or repetitive theme to work with. That's more blues and less jazz IMO, and easier! I'd find I could put more gusto into a repeated phrase, or play the same phrase with different dynamics or rhythm. Easier than trying to create lots of new phrases. You've got some of those like the 6+ 5 4 5 6+. An easy way to get more mileage out of it would be to return to that regularly, and bounce of it with some other phrases. Like play the phrase, then drop down to the low notes.
I especially like the phrase at 30s over the IV chord 3'' 3' 3'' 3' 2 2+. That's a great use of the 3 bends like it should be IMO. I like the ending - good to get a solid ending.
Warbles. OK I had terrible trouble with warbles, and really wanted them locked to the beat. Well, one thing I found was that - on a fairly fast tempo like this - some players would play a warble that was slower but still locked in. So a different subdivision of the beat than the standard 'fast' warble. Sam Myers is good example. So for your long warbles, you could try a more relaxed subdivision, and for the fast short ones keep the fast warble.
I was playing along with you and at this tempo I used the 'toothbrush' technique for the short bursts - like Snooky Pryor does sometimes. Then no headshake required. I've heard people disrespect the toothbrush technique, but what do they know? It gives a different sound to the very controlled warble, and variety is good. And if Snooky Pryor used it, I want to use it.
I like the section around 1m where you play 1/4 triplets on 5 5+ 4 then move to 1/8 note triplets. A suggestion - when you move to the faster triplets you could try switching to 5 5' 4 which is all draw so you can make them smoother. Substituting the 5' 1/4 step bend for the 5+ is standard blues practice.
You mentioned breath control? I didn't notice any glitches and it was 5 1/2 minutes. I guess you must be pleased with that aspect :)
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mtg - Blaring like a mad farm goose.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 16, 2016 12:22 AM
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Rontana
265 posts
Jan 16, 2016
11:19 AM
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@MTG
Ahhhhh . . . I like that idea with the +6 545 +6. Will have to play with that. I'm betting that dropping down afterward will sound pretty cool.
I did Harmonica Boogie a bit this year. I like the site, but many of the backing tracks were leaning a bit more toward jazz (to my ear anyway). I uploaded half a dozen tunes to the site, but more often I just downloaded BTs for practice. The jazz and chrom players over there (and there are some good ones) tended to like things a bit more busy with notes than I do (which is an odd thing to say, since the track I posted here sounds pretty busy).
But honestly, I'm more into playing in the manner I think you're talking about. More repetition and comping and leaving some space in there.
Warbles . . . I guess they come easy to some people . . . but not to me or many others. I have pretty much settled on head shakes, although when my neck starts to get tired I can do a hand shake in traditional grip. Went to Youtube and listened to some Sam Myers. Nice . . . and really pretty when he slows it down but is still spot on time wise. Hell of a voice too.
I don't really see anything wrong with the toothbrush method of warbling either, though it's widely derided. Probably good to be able to warble in various techniques.
Yeah . . . about that 1/4-step bend on the 5. It ties in with my mention of breath control . . . which in my case probably is better stated as "volume control" (as in consistently playing too hard). I've become leery of that 5-bend after breaking a couple of reeds.
I've probably spent less money than most on gear (easy to do, since I don't have a lot of disposable income lying around) so having to order new reed plates always irritates me. Been staying away from that bent 5 until I can control my urge to try and bend the sucker down to the sub-basement.
Thanks for all your thoughts. they help.
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Killa_Hertz
265 posts
Jan 16, 2016
4:05 PM
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What kind of harps are you using that your breaking reeds like that. I play alot and never broke a reed. And i sometimes hit bends hard.
The 5 is just a lil inflection. Barely hit it. Just a lil Twah, Ya kno? Lol.
I don't mean to come off dickish, I'm trying to help. People talk about breaking reeds alot and i just don't get it. Maybe you should trya different brand harp.
Also i have a theory that some people who play real hard may do so because they have improperly gapped harps. Sometimes when i get a new harp the reeds are open so much that the only way to get them to sound is by playing it hard. It takes alot of air also.
Something to think about. Idk.
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......." Where Does He Get Those Wonderful Toys?" .......
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Rontana
266 posts
Jan 16, 2016
4:31 PM
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It's rarely the harp . . . almost always the player.
But to answer the question, I mostly use Sp 20s and gap them myself
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MindTheGap
998 posts
Jan 19, 2016
7:47 AM
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To keep the ball rolling, this is what I've been doing.
I heard that Aki Kumar track and I've always liked that warm-crumbly-crunchy sound that lot make. Here's my attempt with SP20 key of A, Bulletini mic, Harp Break pedal, into a clean SS amp, mic'd into the PC.
I'm using a fair bit of gain, and playing gently. The HB has a bass boost control, I'd normally have that turned off but I used a bit of it here.
This is all about the sound, not the tune. See what you think.
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mtg - Blaring like a mad farm goose.
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Killa_Hertz
300 posts
Jan 19, 2016
9:54 AM
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Its all pretty good. Is hard to really tell without hearing it really hittin. But it sounds good for an SS
I wanna get some type of cheap recording gear so i can upload some stuff.
I don't mean to always change the subject, but what's your aversion to the harp attack? Your harp break did sound pretty great here, but ive seen them A/B in videos. I prefer the Attack sound. Before i even knew what the difference was.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 19, 2016 9:57 AM
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Rontana
268 posts
Jan 19, 2016
10:57 AM
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I liked what you did from about 23 to 30 the best. That's where I heard something that was both warm and crunchy. The bass might have been just a bit much earlier on, overpowering the higher notes. Of course, that may also be my ears, so take it with a grain of salt.
I don't use pedals and such, so can't really comment on that aspect.
Overall it sounds good. Nice work
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MindTheGap
999 posts
Jan 19, 2016
11:51 AM
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Thank you. Yes you're probably right. Too much bass and it gets muddy. A person can tie themselves in knots with this stuff. Anyway, there it is. Always fun to experiment.
I have no aversion to the Harp Attack. I bet it's great too, but I've not heard one in real life. I chose the Harp Break because you can run it from a 9v battery or standard power supply, whereas the Harp Attack needs a special 18v supply. Awkward for running spares. Personally I don't see any special wonderment in having a real live valve, but other people do like that. I like it too, for aesthetic reasons.
If I had my time again, I'd probably go straight to the Boogieman, I like that kind of thing. Everything in one unit. But they didn't make it when I was in the market for buying things.
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mtg - Blaring like a mad farm goose.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 19, 2016 11:55 AM
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Spderyak
61 posts
Jan 19, 2016
12:34 PM
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Both nice playing. Nice thread and I finally took the time to learn what a "Harp Attack" and "Harp Break" were. I have seen the term these past couple of years.
So now I know I'm a no pedal player but at least I know what they are, so it was an education for me.
These days I hear the expression... one likes to play their music dry another likes it a little wet, letting perhaps a little reverb bleed thru.
(no, it's not about how much they can drink)
Are those fairly common expressions among players ?
thanks
Last Edited by Spderyak on Jan 19, 2016 2:16 PM
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Killa_Hertz
301 posts
Jan 19, 2016
4:03 PM
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Ahh... the 18v thing is a lil weird.
Idk. That definatly is a deciding factor. The boogieman would be great, but it's way over kill for me. And too expensive for me right now.
I just spent another hour playin with my multi effects pedal, tinkering with it and trying to get it to sound right. I want to get rid of it and buy one of the Lone Wolf pedals. And a cheap danelectro delay. That way i can spend more time playing instead of trying to get a sound out of this thing that it just won't produce. (Atleast i can't get it to)
That track did sound much better than what i can get out of the multi stomp for sure. That's the sound I'm looking for.
Maybe your right. I'll take your opinion into consideration.
Thanks.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 19, 2016 4:05 PM
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MindTheGap
1000 posts
Jan 20, 2016
12:10 AM
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Actually I just looked up the Harp Attack and you can run it from two 9v batteries, and they advertise approx. 15 hours life. I remember that now. Even so it was a practical issue for me: potentially expensive batteries on an extra and non-standard PSU. In the UK at least, the PSU is a separate purchase. The Boogieman, in contrast, comes with the PSU and you don't need to run other PSUs for other pedals.
In terms of sound, wouldn't your VHT give you that kind of sound?
Spderyak - Thanks. I've not heard that term myself, but that seems plausible. People do refer to the 'wet' and 'dry' portions of signal going through reverb.
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mtg - Blaring like a mad farm goose.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 20, 2016 12:17 AM
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Killa_Hertz
308 posts
Jan 20, 2016
5:53 AM
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Yes the VHT gives Great sound. This all came from me trying to find a low volume option for when I'm at home. The special 6 is Hella Loud. To get it to break up it is loud enough to be heard outside by the neighbors. Lol. It can definatly be heard through out my whole house.
I just want a nice quiet practice setup with great tone. Something I can use without having to wait for no one to be home so i can practice.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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MindTheGap
1001 posts
Jan 20, 2016
6:57 AM
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Ah I see. Did I mentioned this already (?) I fitted a variable attenuator to my 5W amp, using an off-the-shelf 8 ohm L-Pad. These are intended for hi-fi speaker crossovers. That's another option.
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mtg - Blaring like a mad farm goose.
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