ronmcmillan
1 post
Feb 06, 2011
10:10 AM
|
Sorry if this is a topic that has been covered before - I am a complete newby to the forum - but what is bothering me is this. After about twenty years of spending a LOT of money on Tombo Folk/Blues diatonics, I think I have decided it is time to move on.
I have bought five new harps in the last three months, and four of the five have developed faults, reeds 'blown out' and unreliable. I have played blues harmonica for those twenty years, so I know about not over-doing things, breaking in the reeds of new harps, and I have by now acquired a reasonable amount of experience regarding my expectations of durability of the instruments.
But in recent months I have been consistently disappointed, first with the durability of Tombos - and secondly, with the total lack of interest shown by Tombo in even discussing this matter with me.
I'm not a name, I'm not a professional, but I am a consumer who has spend many, many hundreds of dollars on Tombo harmonicas. Yet successive emails to the dreaded info@ email address at Tombo Japan have resulted in precisely nothing. No responses at all, let alone help.
Sadly, the retailer in England has shown no interest in helping. Harmonicas are seemingly unique in the product world - they come with nothing in the way of warranty.
Has anyone else noticed a fall-off in Tombo manufacturing quality in recent months or years? I certainly think I have.
Do other blues harp players here have a favourite alternative to the Tombos? I have played them exclusively for so long that I forget what the competition is like.
Any advice, or any pointers on how to get Tombo to actually deliver some customer service, would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for such a grumpy rant for my first ever posting. I promise to find something more positive in future posts.
ron mcmillan
bangkok, thailand
|
groyster1
827 posts
Feb 06, 2011
10:34 AM
|
I think the only tombos sold in the us are lee oskar and they have a very good reputation as far as durability I own 4 old ones that have held up very well
|
Todd Parrott
371 posts
Feb 06, 2011
11:03 AM
|
I'd heard that the Lee Oskar model was subject to more quality control than the Tombo Major Boy, thus making it a better instrument, but I can't verify this. BBQ Bob, can you help on this one?
I've only ever tried the Tombo Ultimo, because we can't get any Tombos here in the USA, so I can't really comment about the longevity of them.
As for Tombo's customer service in general, I'm not sure how you should handle that one. It seems to me that they aren't serious about selling harmonicas since you can't even purchase them here in the states. Seems to me that they've missed out on millions of dollars in U.S. sales over the last 28 years or so. And, any harmonica company that isn't producing harps with reed profiles suitable for overblows is not in touch with the needs of today's players. As far as I know, none of Tombo's reed profiles are ideal for overblow players. So are they really interested in harmonica players? It doesn't seem that way.
|
silpakorn
40 posts
Feb 06, 2011
11:07 AM
|
Hey ! Are you Ron that jam with Ped and Pong occasionally at the blues bar ? I'm from BKK as well and Adhere is the only place that I hang out - how strange, small world.. anyway, to answer your question - if you want to buy stock harps that's good for money here in BKK what you can find is either the Manji ( suzuki ) or Blues harp ( hohner ). Which I think, quite different from tombo - the Manji is more expensive and has far better reputation than Blues harp. I started with blues harp and now I've moved to custom, anyway, if you wanna try hohner here's a guy's number 081 - 7447799 his name is Mee, his shop sells hohner, I forgot the suzuki dealer's number or if you wanna try custom harps then there are some english customizer that's definitely worth trying.
|
chromaticblues
568 posts
Feb 06, 2011
12:41 PM
|
I would pick a Hohner that is similiar to the Tombo you have been using. Hohners have gotten much better in recent years. Buy the Hohners made in Germany not china.
|
eharp
1143 posts
Feb 06, 2011
1:15 PM
|
did you send this post to the manufacturer?
|
ronmcmillan
2 posts
Feb 06, 2011
6:51 PM
|
@groyster and @Todd: Tombo make both their own and the Lee Oskar, and maybe the Lee Oskar licensing means they can't or won't sell the plain vanilla Tombo Folk Blues in the USA. It was always my experience that the Lee Oskar was identical in every way except the badge. Both brands USED TO be very reliable and durable; Tombos recently seem to have fallen away quality/durability-wise. It's infuriating when you spend about $40 a harp and sometimes it lasts a week and other times a couple of months.
@silpakorn: yes, I do go to Adhere regularly, so we must know each other. I'd like to learn more about your custom harps - could you email me? ronmcmillan AT gmail DOT com.
@eharp: the only way I have of contacting Tombo Japan is the useless 'info@' address that it seems nobody bothers to read or respond to. The English online company where I bought the latest bunch have spoken to the sales rep from Tombo, but he shows no interest in helping in any way. I have played Hohner Blues Harp and Pro Harp and Special 20 a long time ago; might be time to try them again.
Thanks to everyone for the kind help.
ron
|
groyster1
830 posts
Feb 06, 2011
7:24 PM
|
cant go wrong with sp20 they are always a winner
Last Edited by on Feb 06, 2011 7:25 PM
|
nacoran
3777 posts
Feb 06, 2011
9:28 PM
|
I tried contacting Tombo about one of their oddball harmonicas once and got no response. Like everyone else is saying, you only seem to be able to get the LO's here in the states. They may not overblow well, but the LO's are usually known for being nearly indestructible. There are tons of other options though. I've tried a few different harps. I like the Hohner Special 20's, and Seydel seems to make nice harps. Depending on what you're looking for (equal, just, compromise, protruding reed plates, recessed reed plates, long cover, short cover, rounded corners, whatever, just ask and you'll probably get 20 recommendations. Welcome to the forum. :)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
ronmcmillan
6 posts
Feb 07, 2011
2:39 AM
|
Looking around now, I realise that what I thought was a lot of money for all the Tombos I have used over the years is not much at all. The prices of the Seydels defies belief - unless they are bulletproof, and last for a very long time.
Maybe the Lee Oskars do have superior quality control - does anyone here use them a lot without many problems of reeds self-destructing?
Thanks again for the welcomes and the good advice.
ron
|
ronmcmillan
7 posts
Feb 07, 2011
2:48 AM
|
@Todd: I know I'm showing my ignorance, but what does 'overblow' mean? I'm guessing bending on the blow in the upper positions? Or am I showing my ignorance even more now? ;-)
@chromaticblues: which models of Hohners are made in China, so that I can avoid them?
|
Stevelegh
52 posts
Feb 07, 2011
4:21 AM
|
Hi Ron,
In answer to your question, an overblow is a technique where you change the pressure in your playing to produce other notes in order to achieve a chromatic range. 1, 4, 5, and 6 hole blows and 7,8 and 8 draw.
There's a lot of info here, but I think the best explanation is given on overblow.com
Regarding Tombo harps, I've gone through the same thing. I've got tons of them but I've changed since learning overblows. Whilst Tombos are nice 2nd position harps, they are really hard to set up for overblows. I've since moved to Golden Melodys. The reason for this is that they have the same tuning as Tombos (equal temperament), are cheap (£25.00 UK) but they are easy to set up for overblows.
Hope this helps.
|
ronmcmillan
8 posts
Feb 07, 2011
4:43 AM
|
Thanks Steve,
Heck, a whole new learning medium that I didn't know existed! You have guessed right, I play almost exclusively in 2nd position and sometimes 3rd position, since almost all the playing I do is in blues situations. I was unaware of the overblow technique to open up the 'missing' notes in the diatonic and to turn it into a virtual chromatic - but this explains why I never understood how certain blues players were always in a different league from everyone else. I'm thinking of the late Paul deLay and Sugar Blue in particular.
Time to go back to school for me!
ron
|
MrVerylongusername
1549 posts
Feb 07, 2011
7:16 AM
|
Hi Ron
I've been using Lee Oskars almost exclusively for about the same amount of time that you've been using your Tombos.
In that time I've noticed significant improvement in responsiveness and their longevity has remained consistently better than any other harp brand I've tried. Not just a slight difference - truly night and day, their reed life being measure in years of regular gigging use.
It may be that, whilst they look the same on the outside, the materials and/or QC on the generic Tombos is of a poorer standard than the Lee Oskars. Purely speculation though - I've never played one. In Europe the 'other' tombos are hard to come by (though unlike the situation in the States, there do seem to be a few outlets for them).
|
barbequebob
1525 posts
Feb 07, 2011
7:47 AM
|
The LO's were essentially the Tombo Major Boy model (now long discontinued) BUT with much tighter quality control, tighter slot tolerances, etc.. For many years, Tombos were only sold in very limited markets in the US only on the West Coast until they began making the Lee Oskar model. They actually had besides the one in ET tuning, natural, harmonic and melodic minors, also a version in what they called "Harmony Tuning," which was advertised as set up for more pleasant sounding chords (I still have their original 1985 brouchure to prove this), which was essentially 19LJI, and they tried to patent this, but as I understand it, Hohner took them to court (which meant if HOhner lost, they had just switched to 19LJI on many harps, they'd have to pay liscening fees because of the patent if it went thru)) and won and they stopped production of this a year later.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
ronmcmillan
9 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:02 AM
|
Good information, Mr VLUN; maybe what I need to do is source genuine Lee Oskars again. It's quite possible that I was mistaken about the similar quality of the two brands, though I do suspect that quality control at Tombo has fallen away while it seems that Lee Oskar has managed to maintain standards. All the more reason to stop throwing money at Tombo, when they are (1) producing harps whose operating lives are ridiculously brief, and (2) they don't care enough about their customers to respond to enquiries about their products. Game over, Tombo!
ron
|
ronmcmillan
10 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:03 AM
|
p.s. can anyone recommend a reliable and well-priced online source of Lee Oskars in the USA?
ron
|
groyster1
832 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:18 AM
|
@ron
it is almost a consensus in this forum that lee oskars last and last tho some dont really like them and prefer hohner or suzuki
|
groyster1
833 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:34 AM
|
dont think rockinron will do free shipping to thailand but have not found a better harp salesman than him he has called me personally instead of emailing good guy
|
jim
717 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:46 AM
|
go for steel reeds, my friend.
|
ronmcmillan
11 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:48 AM
|
Thanks, Groyster. The Lee Oskars are the 10-holes that suit me best, so I'll look into shopping at rockinronsmusic. I'm used to getting creative about shipping, and might get Ron to send my orders to a friend in Baltimore who will forward them for me.
ron
|
ronmcmillan
12 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:50 AM
|
@jim: are steel reeds an option on Lee Oskars, or do you mean I should be looking at different brands that use steel reeds?
Thanks again to everyone for all the kind advice. This is much appreciated. I'm only sorry I didn't 'discover' this friendly forum a long time ago!
|
jim
718 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:19 AM
|
seydel 1847 are currently the only ones produced in steel.
they never get out of tune.
|
ronmcmillan
13 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:26 AM
|
Thanks, Jim. I'm learning something new on every line of this thread. rm
|
chromaticblues
570 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:42 AM
|
@ Ron Jim is a Seydel spy! Proceed with caution!
The Hohner Hand made harps that are made in Germany are Special 20's, Marine Band 1896, Marine Band Deluxe, Marine Band Crossover and Golden Melody.
If you were spending $40 a harp. I would say try the SP 20. Its a little less money and probably a better harp.
|
ronmcmillan
15 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:49 AM
|
A Seydel spy? We all have our preferences :-) And at Seydel prices, I doubt if I'll be able to go that route anytime soon.
My next move is to take apart a Lee Oskar and a Tombo and see if the reed plates are interchangeable. If they ARE I will order Lee Oskar reed plates from the USA for about $20 a set and fit them to broken Tombo harps (or to broken Lee Oskars if there are any of those in my large pile of busted harmonicas)
|
harmonicanick
1082 posts
Feb 07, 2011
9:59 AM
|
Ron, I was at a jam last night and a player, who was using LO's, said to me 'I blow the reeds out all the time, I must need to change my harps'
My response was what I would have expected barbequebob to explain, as he has on many occasions with great lucidity, that you are playing with too much force!
Do a forum search, and find where bob explains how you should be breathing in order to to minimise blown reeds in the short term and improve your tone and save yourself a few bucks in the long term.
|
nacoran
3782 posts
Feb 07, 2011
10:01 AM
|
Rockin Rons gets rave reviews, and they carry several brands- Hohner, Seydel, Suzuiki, Lee Oskar, and Bushman (which are really just Suzukis or Seydels depending on the model, but they get good reviews for playing (mediocre for service from the company directly). There are several other companies out there. Brazil has Hering (some people really like them) and Bends (they still seem to be struggling with international shipping). For a ton of money and a long wait there is Harrison, but you can get a custom faster. Stay away from Johnson, Kay, Golden Cup, Merano and the other real low end harps. If you click on the link in my signature (Thread Organizer) it will take you to a list of useful threads, including one for customizers.
Chromatic, I think the Blues Harp is German made too. Maybe the Pro Harp too, the MS series. I'm not sure though. The non-German ones include Piedmonts, Blues Bands, Fuego Azuls, Pocket Pals, Official Scouts, Hot Metals, American Ace, Great Little Harps and Old Standbys. I think there are a couple more that are distributed in Europe. I'm not sure where they make Big Rivers.
Ron, here is a handy chart that shows where and what overblows and blowbends are and where they are on the harp. I can get blowbends, but I still can't get overblows except occasionally by dumb luck.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2011 10:01 AM
|
chromaticblues
572 posts
Feb 07, 2011
5:55 PM
|
@ Nacoran I think the MS series harps are made in China. They are very different than the hand made harps.
|
Blues13
86 posts
Feb 07, 2011
6:44 PM
|
It's written made in Germany on my Big River. Really different feel than my Marine Band, will never buy another ms harp, will definitely buy other Marine band. I can seriously say that I've become a Marine Band guy.
martin
----------
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov
|
nacoran
3784 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:54 PM
|
Chromatic, I dug out my MS Blues Harp and it says made in Germany.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
silpakorn
41 posts
Feb 07, 2011
8:55 PM
|
I'm sorry for a late reply Ron ! I'm on holiday at moment. Just sent you a mail : )
|
boris_plotnikov
443 posts
Feb 07, 2011
11:31 PM
|
I vote for stainless steel too. I'm not a hard player, I play very soft, but I get tired of keeping my Golden Melodies in tune. Every three gig I had to retune some reeds. Now with 1847 I simple don't worry about it and even give up carrying tuner with me all the time. Yes, response is slightly different (not worse, but different) and you have to get used to them, but then they are great.
----------
Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
|
Rubes
226 posts
Feb 08, 2011
3:14 AM
|
I reckon give Tombo the flick for a while Ron ( I still have a few in my kit ) and try something different. My harps are a mixed bunch of the regulars, but I'd have to give the trophy to my Seydel 1847, ticks most of the boxes!
|
slowblowfuse
31 posts
Feb 08, 2011
5:36 AM
|
I've been using Tombo Lee Oskars as well for donkey's years.
Hardly ever fail. I tried other harmonicas but always returned to LO's.
However, a few weeks ago I got a couple of Seydel 1847's.
Rather expensive (70 euros) but the first harmonica that makes me contemplate switching.........
Bye,
Ruurd
|
Blackbird
149 posts
Feb 09, 2011
12:55 AM
|
@ Ron - the Hohner 'blues bender' harps are stamped 'made in china' and while I'm no gear expert, I bought one and found it playable, but unremarkable. If you asked me if you should buy one of those, I'd say "no". Not when there are some better instruments for the money.
For what it's worth, I tend to like the marine bands and special 20's, and sooner or later, I'm gonna try out the Suzuki or Seydel harps when the money comes rollin' in again.
|
ronmcmillan
16 posts
Feb 09, 2011
4:02 AM
|
Thanks to everyone for the great advice. I think I will order some reed plates from Lee Oskar and see if there is a difference in the durability of their plates over the Tombo ones.
At the same time I will start to experiment with other brands.
ron
|
