jag
1 post
Dec 24, 2010
1:09 PM
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Hello everyone and Merry Christmas. I'm a newbie to the harp. I understand cross harp, (ie. A-harp for guitar in key of E, etc). the problem I'm having is that sometimes when I play cross harp with guitar players the harp is out of tune with the guitar. Since the key of the harp is a constant, and the guitar is in tune, why does this happen, and how do I fix the problem? Does the guitar need to be tuned to the harp? i'm confused. Thanks
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Harp boy in progress
12 posts
Dec 24, 2010
1:16 PM
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hello jag! It really depends on what type of harp you are using. If its not the harp then its your techniqe. if its a draw note try to relax your breathing. Try not to what we call (choke) the note. Also what you could do is get a tuner for a guitar and see if the harp is in tune.
i hope this helps you and have a lovely xmas!!
Nick
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 11:06 AM
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jodanchudan
178 posts
Dec 24, 2010
1:24 PM
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I've had the same issue - now I just ignore the tuner and tune the guitar to match the harp.
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Harp boy in progress
17 posts
Dec 24, 2010
1:29 PM
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very fair point jodanchudan thanks from the uk
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nacoran
3482 posts
Dec 24, 2010
1:48 PM
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If it's happening with one harp you might have a bad harp. If it's happening with a bunch of harps, take jodanchudan's advice and tune the guitar to the harp, but...
Different harps are tuned differently. Golden Melodies, for instance, are equal tuned. Other harps are tuned Compromise or Just. This mostly effects how they sound playing melodies or chords, but it can make a difference with other instruments too. The easiest solution though, is to have the guitar players tune to your harp.
Also, if you are bending notes you can hit pitches that
aren't in key. You can practice with a tuner. There is also a piece of software called Bend-o-meter that can help with bend accuracy.
Try jodanchudan's advice. That probably will solve the problem. If it doesn't you can trouble shoot further. Happy Holidays and welcome to the forum!
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Joe_L
937 posts
Dec 24, 2010
4:29 PM
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Are you certain the guitar is tuned to standard tuning? Some guitarists like to tune their strings down a half step.
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Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2010 4:30 PM
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Learning Harp
56 posts
Dec 24, 2010
6:01 PM
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Being mainly a guitar player I can tell you that some guitars are just a little out of tune no matter what. There's so many variables to go into here but a tuner can be dead on but the guitar is off a little, with a setup like that a seasoned guitarist will tune particular strings a few cents out. Also some tuners are just crap from the get go. Cheapy models are usually suspect sometimes being as much or more than 5% off. There's higher priced pedal out right now that's all the rave called the PolyTune that I'm hearing is giving guys trouble left and right being off.
Your harp could be out of tune but I suspect it's your guitarist? I've been playing guitar so long I don't even need one, I do it all by ear. I just keep a tuner on the pedal board in case I've been drinking too much. LOL
If there's no reliable source to tune to I would have your guitarist tune to you a few times and ask that he take note as to how many cents off that is from his tuner. Then from there out he can just tune up based off that.
Merry Christmas!
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oldwailer
1451 posts
Dec 24, 2010
7:16 PM
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I have three guitar tuners around here somewhere--they're all different--only one of them (a clip-on) is really good for playing with harp.
However--if you just tune to a tuner and don't use you're ears for the final tune-up--you're just not doing the whole job. A guitar and harp can start a song in tune and end up out of tune--guitars are just flaky--a couple of good bluesy bends on the B string and it'll go flat. Tuning is primarily the guitarists job--but he might need a harper to tell him it's out. If he's a decent musician, he'll listen. . .
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BigBlindRay
60 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:04 AM
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Hi Jag
Jordan makes a good point. Try to get the guitarist to tune to you for starters
But it could be likely that your intonation is off.
Its really important to practise the scales you will be using in a song against another instrument ie: A Keyboard or piano.
try running through which ever second position scales you are intending to use in a piece and play them in conjunction with a keyboard, try and get your pitch to match that of the keyboard.
Now chances are the piece you play will have chord changes, so practise evey relative scale in the appropriate positions so that your intonation during chord changes will be as correct to pitch with the relative scale youre playing over.
EG: I-IV-V Blues progression:
in 2nd position
1 chord - 2nd position - Practise the Major, Penatonic (Major and Minor) and Blues Scale
IV chord - 1st position - practise the same scales
V chord - 3rd position - as above
Once you can get confident with transitioning between scales and positions relative to the chord changes or a progression such as the blues prog - then you should start to notice a big improvement in your ability to play in tune.
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kudzurunner
2159 posts
Dec 27, 2010
6:27 AM
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@HarpBoy: I've never said that Marine Bands weren't in tune out of the box. They're always in tune, at least if you play them gently. I said that one out of five is stiff and difficult to play. I also said that that harp CAN be played, and that a player can derive some benefits from occasionally practicing on a stiff harp.
@jag: There are three reasons--and more than that, but three obvious ones--why your harp may be out of tune with the guitar
1) Your embouchure is bad and you're flatting out the harp when you play
2) Your harp is out of tune, either because it's old and you're flatted the reeds through lots of playing and bending, or because you're drawing hard (as I do) and you're flatting even a good new harp out a little, that way. This is especially a problem on lower key harps, and on the lower holes of those harps. If you play an out of the box F harp in almost any brand, it will be in tune. If you play an out of the box A harp, almost any brand, and you play the 2 draw very loudly, chances are good you'll pull it slightly flat. The cure for this is to tune your own reeds, sharpening slightly the ones that tend to pull flat: 1, 2, and sometimes 3 and 4 draw.
3) The guitar is out of tune. Perhaps the guitarist has set his tuner to A442 or even A 444 rather than A440. Or perhaps the guitarist just doesn't tune carefully, or tune at all.
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 6:28 AM
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Harp boy in progress
37 posts
Dec 27, 2010
11:04 AM
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sorry Adam, what i was trying to write what you said. If you take 5 marine bands etc. sorry to cause confustion.
Thanks
Nick
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toddlgreene
2319 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:04 PM
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Another problem, if you go play with a guitarist who is accustomed to playing alone, is that he may tune to himself-in other words, the top E string sounds good enough to him, in tune or not, then he tunes using the 5-5-4-5 method to get the rest of the strings in tune with it. Best bet is to give him an A or E off a harp, and have him tune to you.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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