I have a tune where I need some Zydeco accordion type sounds in the background. It does not have to be 100% but close would be great.
I've read that some guys use an Echo harp to get accordion sounds. Would that work, is there better, and what the heck is it? LOL
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 11:31 AM
If you have an amp which has a chorus effect (e.g. the Roland MicroCube) that can give you a pretty good accordian-like sound with a normal diatonic harp. ----------
I have played some Zydeco and Cajun songs using octaves a lot with occasional single note lines. I have used diatonics and sometimes chromatics to imitate that accordion. Sometimes I have used a chorus pedal, but without overdoing it. If you can't play the octaves yet, and are planning to buy a harp, consider an octave harp. If you are a good tongue blocker, which I am not (yet) you could try to play it like Jerry Devillier.
Yes, I know that this is a Cajun waltz, not Zydeco blues! It's the way he can make a harp sound like an accordion that amazes me. I tried to learn it at SPAH this summer, but I couldn't tongue block properly to do it.
I think you probably want to sound something like this:
Unfortunately the only way to sound like that is through several years of hard work an practice.
In the meantime, it you just want a "Zydeco-ish" sound in the background, then yes, playing in-out chord rhythms on an "echo" harp will do that. What is it? It's a double reed harmonica where blowing or drawing in each slot sounds TWO reeds instead of one (like in a regular diatonic ten hole harp). There are two types of double reed harps: octave and tremolo. Octaves have the double reeds tuned a whole octave apart, and is what you want for sounding Cajun or zydeco-ish. These harps are commonly referred to as "echo" harps after some popular hohner models of the same name. I have a Hohner Auto Valve, which is an octave harp with windsaver valves (like on a chromatic). To buy one new is expensive. For your needs, I would go with a cheaper non-valved echo harp. Although you won't get nearly as much volume out of it as the Auto Valve, you are playing in a studio setting, so that doesn't really matter.
The other type of double reed harp--the tremolo harp--has it's reeds tuned just a couple cents sharp/flat of eachother.
Tongue blocked octaves, particularly if you flick your tongue a bit as you are playing it will give you some of that sound. Tremolo harps have a bit more of that sound and echoes too. Huang has a pair of tremolo harps called Musette that would give you a pretty good sound (they come in C and C#, to play in another key they expect you to play Asian style with them stacked, switching back and forth. If the song you want to play is in C or C# it's all good. Otherwise you have to learn a whole other style of playing.)
nacoran, I'm not sure if a tremolo harp will really sound Zydeco-y. Those types of squeeze boxes as used for cajun/zydeco are usually octave tuned, so it stands to reason that an octave harp will be the closest to them in terms of the sound. Not that a tremolo won't sound cool, just that it's probably not the best sound for THIS application. I can get some really nice cajun-y, zydeco-y sounds out of my Auto Valve, even though I really have not practiced all the right inflections and phrasing for cajun/zydeco music. ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
Hey Isaac, If I were to go with an Echo harp to attempt to get a Zydeco sound would I be playing that cross harp style? The tune I have to do it in is in G Major.
Echo harps are laid out like richter harps. So you would get a C harp and play in 2nd position. My Auto Valve is in C, so if you want, later today I can make a recording and post it here so you can be sure it's what you want.
I'm trying to hear it in my head and it sounds like you would want to play in 2nd position. Zydeco has a blues thing going on. It also sounds like the accordion is doing most of the lead work on the draw notes? Yeah that would be great. The only thing on youtube with Echo harps are Christmas songs so I've really got no idea if you can get funky with'em? Lol
This a Hohner Auto Valve octave harp in C. I start the clip with a 1234 draw chord, followed by a 1234 blow chord (so you can see if it matches the music), then I just play a little in-out shuffle riff.
Sorry for the low volume, I'm still figuring out all the connections on my new computer. I recorded this through the USB connection from my Digitech RP155 unit, set to a completely clean setting.
I hope this helps you figure out what you are looking for! ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
I've only heard a little zydeco, but the Huang Musettes sound like accordions in some styles of play. This isn't a zydeco style, but I've heard accordions playing sound like this. Of course, whether this is the accordion sound you are looking for. This is tongue blocked octaves. The Musettes sound more accordion-ish than some other tremolos, but they all have that wavering tone and you can use tongue blocks to get the octaves.
(Sorry the levels are a little peaked. It's a pretty loud harp and I'm using a really cheap microphone. It was peaking even with the mic level turned way down.)
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Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 9:41 PM
Whenever I do the Slim Harpo classic "Raining In My Heart," I use a Hohner 2409 tremelo harp for a more accordion like feel and it breaks things up quite a lot.
Jerry McCain has recorded instrumentals using an octave harp on tunes like "728 Texas," "Hot Nuts" and "Woodpecker," and he's playing them in 3rd position. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@nacoran: That definitely sounds cool! Sounds very "Parisian" so me for some reason? ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
Yeah, Parisian might be a good way to describe it. I'm pretty sure someone more familiar with zydeco could make it sound more zydeco like. I don't know the right progressions.
@LearningHarp: Zydeco has always had two strains, bluesy and nonbluesy, and the nonbluesy material, which tends to dominate the uptempo dance stuff, is closer to first position, white-keys-on-the-piano playing. The problem is the register where you can play more octaves on a ten-hole diatonic is usually too high to really sound like an accordian.
One overlooked harp type with some low octave coverage is the Hohner SBS or Seydel Solist. If you can pump some tongueblocking and chords as isaacullah and nacoran on the low end of those harps, that can do surprisingly well at giving the impression--and having the "normal" diatonic as part of those harps lets you shift to bluesiness. It's not a complete set of low octaves, but having low octaves for what are normally 2 and 3 draw opens things up significantly. If you had any interest in those models of harp for other reasons, be advised they can go a little zydeco.
As noted above, the 105 Auto-Valve is usually recommended for zydeco. I have a 105 in D and one thing I've found particularly effective is to play with a "lefthand" tongueblock approach: keep the open hole on the left most of the time so that any tongue vamping sounds higher notes instead of lower ones. Takes some getting used to, but to my ear it gives a much stronger accordian sound than the usual "righthand" block does (and Madcat Ruth agreed when I demoed that for him once). The valving restricts bending on the 105 but at least allows a blue third on 3D.
I went crazy on my 105 and took the valves off and customized to see if I could get full bends. Mixed results, it's pretty windy and the octave bending didn't work out well--the low-octave reedplate is a low D so the low bends would be challenge enough if one weren't playing a regular D at the same time. One can tilt the harp and isolate on the upper reedplate and play that as a normal 10-hole diatonic, but unfortunately that's the low D plate. Maybe if you have less overbite than I do, you could isolate the lower plate more easily, but I have to tilt the harp down almost 90 degrees and play pucker; could probably get used to it if I practiced it enough.
You've probably noticed the reason I only have a single 105: they're not cheap, and neither is an SBS or Solist. That may be a reason why you don't hear more zydeco harp. Diatonic harmonica was actually common in the precursor of zydeco, what was called a jure I think, where due to poverty it was often the only instrument, with singing and foot/hand percussion supplying the rest. It was more like the Jerry Devillier harp style, because the blues element was really added in the urban environment of Houston. It was easier to play a wider range of melodic/chordal things on the accordian and amplify that, as zydeco developed. Since the zydeco pioneers demonstrated it was possible to make money playing the accordian, players started finding the money for an accordian somehow instead of doing it with a harp.
There's a whole other button-vs.-piano accordian issue, related to the bluesy/nonbluesy issue, that I won't even get into here. The right approach with octaves and chords should get you a satisfactory impression of zydeco for backing purposes.
Wow, great info guys and thank you for the demo's!
"I went crazy on my 105 and took the valves off and customized to see if I could get full bends. Mixed results, it's pretty windy and the octave bending didn't work out well--the low-octave reedplate is a low D so the low bends would be challenge enough if one weren't playing a regular D at the same time. One can tilt the harp and isolate on the upper reedplate and play that as a normal 10-hole diatonic, but unfortunately that's the low D plate. Maybe if you have less overbite than I do, you could isolate the lower plate more easily, but I have to tilt the harp down almost 90 degrees and play pucker; could probably get used to it if I practiced it enough."
Couldn't you flip the reeds around say on a non valved octave harp? Sounds like it would be great to be able to do bends and the octave stuff. But it also sounds like the non-valved harps would make you pass out from hyperventilation? LOL
